Dirty / contaminated gas

[DavidG58]

I have been watching a few threads regarding refillable gas supplies and appear to have noticed a few problems with fridges mainly not working properly, particularly when abroad, then also noticed that I think all of them were using refillable gas bottles

is it just a coincidence or is the LPG sold across the channel poorer quality?

I was being swayed towards refillable bottles, but ......

 

[Techno]

Fit a filter
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[DavidG58]

Fit a filter
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If like you me you need to depend on getting this sort of job done, do you think a fitter supply this as standard or do you need to ask them to fit one?

 

[Techno]

It's extra but it's only a spanner job David, no different to changing a bottle.
Much easier with a tank as you only need one but if you have twin bottles you'd need one on each unless you want to start swapping hoses around which defeats the object.

 

[Lenny HB]

is it just a coincidence or is the LPG sold across the channel poorer quality?

Spain & Morocco appear to have poor quality from reports with France follow up behind.
As Andy says fit a filter, also leave the UK with full tanks to minimize use of dirty gas.

Don't know if the exchange bottles are any better maybe it shows up more with re-fillable's as they tend to be the higher users.

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[scotjimland]

From Gaslow bottle description Broken Link Removed

The outlet valve has a built in filter to prevent inpurities in the gas damaging the regulator.

 

[Glandwr]

Is there a filter that can be fitted post reg in rubber hose? I have been feeding in maroc gas through BBQ point for 3 months.

Now the burner in the fridge has packed up. I've got an appointment with Thetford agent in Cadiz in 10 days time. I would however like to avoid it in the future. Underslung tanks already have a filter. (I think!)

Dick

 

[Lenny HB]

From Gaslow bottle description Broken Link Removed

The outlet valve has a built in filter to prevent inpurities in the gas damaging the regulator.

That is only on the latest typeR 67 bottles, don't know how fine it is & I don't think it can be removed for cleaning.

 

[Lenny HB]

Is there a filter that can be fitted post reg in rubber hose? I have been feeding in maroc gas through BBQ point for 3 months.

Now the burner in the fridge has packed up. I've got an appointment with Thetford agent in Cadiz in 10 days time. I would however like to avoid it in the future. Underslung tanks already have a filter. (I think!)

Dick

Sounds like the exchange bottles are just as bad.

You should be able to fit one of the gas-it filters before the regulator using adaptors, assuming the bottle is a screw fitting not clip on.

 

[scotjimland]

That is only on the latest typeR 67 bottles, don't know how fine it is & I don't think it can be removed for cleaning.

The OP was considering whether to fit refillables.. ... I showed the latest Gaslow bottle, so unless he buys second hand, that is what he would be supplied with

I can't answer the other questions, they need to addressed to Gaslow ..

EDIT

I have emailed Gaslow with these two questions.. will post when they reply

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[ubuntu1]

All LPG has what is called "ends" in it. This is what people call dirty gas. Its always there and doesn't usually cause a problem. What you should do when your van stops is let the gas settle before drawing it off, this lets the ends settle.

 

[Lenny HB]

The OP was considering whether to fit refillables.. ... I showed the latest Gaslow bottle, so unless he buys second hand, that is what he would be supplied with

I can't answer the other questions, they need to addressed to Gaslow ..

You can sbuy ether type of bottle from Gaslow the R67 is

All LPG has what is called "ends" in it. This is what people call dirty gas. Its always there and doesn't usually cause a problem. What you should do when your van stops is let the gas settle before drawing it off, this lets the ends settle.

But a lot of us run with the gas on all the time, would the 15min the fridge takes to switch over to gas be enough?

 

[scotjimland]

ou can sbuy ether type of bottle from Gaslow the R67 is

correct .. I should have said that in my first post ...

@DavidG58 .. please be aware my first post only applies to the The NEW Gaslow R67 Cylinder

 

[mickymouse]

I have had a lot of problems with the fridge/freezer flue pipe sooting up, and I use refillable gas, I have now fitted one of these Truma gas filters, but have yet to use the van for a long period to see how effective it is.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0082K8KY8/?tag=mhf04-21

 

[iandsm]

Interesting post. I use Gaslow cylinders which were new n 2008 so they are now in their seventh year. I haven't heard of dirty or contaminated gas before and haven't had any problems. We travel with the gas on all the time so the Truma boiler cuts in now and again for heating and got water, particularly in the winter months. True the fridge doesn't come on for at least 15 minutes after the ignition is turned off so perhaps thats long enough. Either way I haven't had any problems, perhaps Ive been lucky. I will watch this thread with interest.

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[Lenny HB]

I have had a lot of problems with the fridge/freezer flue pipe sooting up, and I use refillable gas, I have now fitted one of these Truma gas filters, but have yet to use the van for a long period to see how effective it is.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0082K8KY8/?tag=mhf04-21

They are supposed to work well but a bit expensive when you need two of them compared to Gas-it at 25 quid each, also filters replacements are 30 quid compared to 5 or 11 (depending on type) for the Gas-it ones. The Gas-it one that has the 11 quid filter has a metal sintered filter which can be cleaned and doesn't need replacing every year.

 

[scotjimland]

That is only on the latest typeR 67 bottles, don't know how fine it is & I don't think it can be removed for cleaning.

Reply from Gaslow

Hi James

Many thanks for your email. The filter in the R67 cylinders is a bronze filter that is self - cleaning and requires no maintenance for the life of the cylinder. When you fill the cylinder the intake of liquid gas will wash the filter off to remove any deposits. The filter was put within the cylinder so that you would require no other filtration within your gas supply line.


Regards


Martin Kennett

 

[Lenny HB]

Reply from Gaslow

Hi James

Many thanks for your email. The filter in the R67 cylinders is a bronze filter that is self - cleaning and requires no maintenance for the life of the cylinder. When you fill the cylinder the intake of liquid gas will wash the filter off to remove any deposits. The filter was put within the cylinder so that you would require no other filtration within your gas supply line.
Regards
Martin Kennett

Doesn't sound like a very good idea, each time you fill up you wash the crap back into the cylinder, also as the inlet & outlet are separate sounds like it's relying on the gas swirling around in the cylinder to knock the muck off the filter.

 

[scotjimland]

Doesn't sound like a very good idea, each time you fill up you wash the crap back into the cylinder, also as the inlet & outlet are separate sounds like it's relying on the gas swirling around in the cylinder to knock the muck off the filter.

Frankly, I was quite satisfied with the answer.. but I am only the messenger.. why don't you contact Gaslow with your questions and concerns ?


Martin Kennett
Gaslow International Ltd

Tel: Broken Link Removed
Fax: Broken Link Removed
Mobile: Broken Link Removed
Sales@gaslow.co.uk

 

[Sundowners]

I have had a lot of problems with the fridge/freezer flue pipe sooting up, and I use refillable gas, I have now fitted one of these Truma gas filters, but have yet to use the van for a long period to see how effective it is.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0082K8KY8/?tag=mhf04-21

Maybe the sooting is caused by a bad burning flame rather than 'dirty LPG' ????---------if you can see the flame , what colour is it??

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[Lenny HB]

Frankly, I was quite satisfied with the answer.. but I am only the messenger.. why don't you contact Gaslow with your questions and concerns ?

I was only pointing out doesn't sound a very good Idea, but we have know way of knowing until they have been in use a few years. I have a couple of 13kg Alugas re-fillables that I'm going to fit the Gas-it filters to.

 

[Techno]

Mine has a renewable filter element under £5
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[DavidG58]

The OP was considering whether to fit refillables.. ... I showed the latest Gaslow bottle, so unless he buys second hand, that is what he would be supplied with

I can't answer the other questions, they need to addressed to Gaslow ..

EDIT

I have emailed Gaslow with these two questions.. will post when they reply

Reply from Gaslow

Hi James

Many thanks for your email. The filter in the R67 cylinders is a bronze filter that is self - cleaning and requires no maintenance for the life of the cylinder. When you fill the cylinder the intake of liquid gas will wash the filter off to remove any deposits. The filter was put within the cylinder so that you would require no other filtration within your gas supply line.


Regards


Martin Kennett

Doesn't sound like a very good idea, each time you fill up you wash the crap back into the cylinder, also as the inlet & outlet are separate sounds like it's relying on the gas swirling around in the cylinder to knock the muck off the filter.

Mine has a renewable filter element under £5
Broken Link Removed

Thanks all for your input, especially Jim for going the extra mile, I will need to be sure that any package I ask to be fitted has filters included as standard, I guess they might easily be left off to keep prices keener

 

[Lenny HB]

Mine has a renewable filter element under £5
Broken Link Removed

Gas-it also do a sintered metal filter that is cleanable, replacements are £11, not sure which I'm going to fit at the moment down to available space .

 

[scotjimland]

I will need to be sure that any package I ask to be fitted has filters included as standard,

I agree.. personally I would be happy with either an in-filter, as sold by GasIt, or the Gaslow R57 bottle with an inbuilt one.

The amount of crap that will gather in a filter will obviously depend on the quality of the LPG.. but as it is vapour take-off at the top of the bottle, (as opposed to liquid take-off near the bottom), there should be very little dirt carried over... perhaps only a few milligrams per fill if the gas was particularly contaminated ..'washing' that dirt back into the bottle it will simply sink and collect at the bottom.. it would take years and years, if ever for that dirt accumulated to be an issue.. just can't see that ever happening.

Does it do the same job.. ? According to Gaslow, yes.. and it doesn't require maintenance.. so that's a 'plus' .. no filter to change or clean... or forget to clean.. every fill the filter is back washed..

Gaslow are a reputable manufacturer, I'd be very surprised if they hadn't have tested their new filter bottle before marketing it...

As an aside.. I have been using bottled LPG for more years than I care to remember.. and have never had an issue with contaminated gas either here or inFrance, Spain, Portugal and Morocco.. where I used bottled butane plumbed in via a BBQ point.. .. nor did my RV LPG tank have an in-line filter .. maybe just lucky ..eh

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[JockandRita]

maybe just lucky ..eh

I don't think so Jim.

I've been using our bulk tank for over ten years now, and have not had a problem even when I stupidly misread the guage and actually ran out of gas on a winter meet. doh.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[JJ]

Used two Gaslow systems in my two, live in vans, for years and years and years and I've never ever, ever had any problems with dirty gas... or anything else for that matter.

JJ

 

[DBK]

I'm struggling to understand what sort of particulates could levitate upwards from the surface of the gas and enter the pipe and then be carried to the fridge. An old steel tank might have rust in it but that would sink to the bottom.

Poor combustion, assuming everything else works is probably down to poor quality gas with too many other gases there which shouldn't be in the mix. No amount of barrier filters will stop these.

 

[dave newell]

LPG is a by product of the petro chemical industry and therefore will likely contain small quantities of other oil based factors. IF these get drawn through then they can cause sooting at the burner. Years ago, before we had fixed bulkhead regulators I periodically got enquiries through MMM about pans getting sooty bottoms and no-one seemed to have an answer to it, I do recall one letter where the cooker had been stripped and oil found in the burner control valves so its not a new issue and its not confined to refillable systems (I've also seen bottle mounted regulators that have only ever been on Calor cylinders contaminated and clogged up).

Gas fridges should be serviced annually and contrary to many peoples thoughts this is NOT a standard part of most workshops hab inspection (we do service the fridge burner and clean the flue during a Hab inspection as long as it can be done without removing the fridge, if it can't then its an extra cost option). Fridges that are used extensively on gas should be serviced more frequently, I believe this advice is written in Dometic's manuals and assume the same is in Thetford's owner manuals.

Fridges are the most likely appliance to suffer problems because they have the smallest gas flow and narrowest flue meaning the gas jet can block up easier and the flue can gather soot easier. Whenever we have serviced a fridge that has been giving problems we always ask when it was last serviced and the answer is often one of the following:
"Does it need servicing?"
"At the last hab inspection I assume"
"Never!"
"Didn't know it was required"

So to all those who have/are experienced(ing) problems with fridges running on gas, when was it last serviced?

D.

 

[ubuntu1]

Any sooting needs to be investigated by a motorhome engineer. You are getting incomplete combustion which can be dangerous. Take a look at http://www.approvedworkshops.co.uk/search/ and look for an engineer near you. You will probably find that you need new burners and the flue cleaning.

Going back to the earlier posts then I think a filter is a great idea. I haven't any experience of the GasIt ones but I have come across the Truma ones and they are very good.

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