Damp checks - moving the goalposts

[maz]

For years now I have had my annual motorhome damp checks carried out by mobile engineers and have always been given a nice drawing of all sides of the van annotated with percentage figures. Lovely!

Before buying our current van I went through the damp check paperwork for it - checks performed by a large dealer. Sure enough, the first year’s hab check (2017) had a full damp report drawing with percentages. However, the second year’s report (2018) consisted of just a bald statement of ‘No faults detected’ - and that was it! Same dealer but apparently now the reports are all produced on a computer and that’s all it can cope with.

Not only that but now, apparently, the goalposts have been moved as to what constitutes ‘normal’ readings. This always used to be 0-15% - ‘no reason for concern’. Now, according to the dealer’s paperwork, ‘measurements of up to 20% are normal’. Whereas, readings of 15-20% always used to be listed as ‘may require further investigation. Consider recheck after 3 months’. So why the change?

Before buying the van, I had an independent damp check done by a mobile engineer and all was fine (together with lovely detailed drawing ). I asked him about the change in ‘normal’ readings to 20% and he thought it was the NCC who had moved the goalposts not the individual dealer - but he didn’t know why. As far as he was concerned he was staying with the original guidelines.

So what do you reckon to the ‘20% normal’ figure? And would you be happy with a report that just stated ‘no faults detected’ with no figures provided at all?

 

[wiljoy]

Several dealers are now just carrying out visual checks.

 

[maxi77]

I must admit I thought 20% was the OK limit. Having just done a wholly incomplete google search it seems figures from 18 to 25% seem normal maxima depending on humidity. As the tests are surface contact tests they will be highly influenced by local humidity. I suspect what is more important is an unexplained rise.

 

[BobtheBass]

Go European charged the full whack but only did a visual check with no written report of any kind on my last Carthago. Their actual comment was "it’s only a year old, there won’t be anything wrong with it" but still charged full price for doing nowt but putting a sticker in the book.............

 

[Pausim]

The original protimeter (damp checker) was designed by an Environmental Health Officer who wanted to distinguish between condensation (surface) and true damp. Condensation i.e. moisture on the surface is not what we are looking for, we need to know whether damp is penetrating the structure from outside. The acceptable % readings depend on the material being tested, wood will always contain some moisture but some other materials ought to have lower readings. I suspect part of the confusion is that to simplify matters the testers have been given a very general range of acceptable values because they probably aren’t in a position to know exactly what materials lie below the surface. However, the % value would probably shoot right up the scale if there is a real problem and would be reading higher than other similar parts of the structure.

 

[CazPaul]

Go European charged the full whack but only did a visual check with no written report of any kind on my last Carthago. Their actual comment was "it’s only a year old, there won’t be anything wrong with it" but still charged full price for doing nowt but putting a sticker in the book.............

Terrible that, a licence to print money, how much did they charge?

 

[BobtheBass]

Terrible that, a licence to print money, how much did they charge?

From memory I think the damp checking element of the hab service was about £200 on it's own. Not bad for five minutes effort (if that) and no paperwork at all. Even the hab service had no paperwork, they just said it had all been done as per the Carthago handbook so who knows if they actually did anything at all? The free loan car turned out to be the company Transit van but I quite enjoyed driving that!

 

[maz]

I suspect what is more important is an unexplained rise.

That was what prompted me to get another damp check done on the van we bought.

The report in 2017 showed relatively high figures (12% and 16%) around one corner of a skylight. The so-called report in 2018 was useless as a follow-up to this. Had things got worse? Who could tell from a report that just blandly stated ‘no faults detected’ and assumed 20% to be normal.

As it happens, my subsequent damp test showed readings of only 6% in this area so I was quite happy that there was no ongoing damp problem emerging.

But I want to know what is going on with my van each year. And I do not want to be fobbed off with a totally dumbed down non-report for my money!

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[maz]

Go European charged the full whack but only did a visual check with no written report of any kind on my last Carthago. Their actual comment was "it’s only a year old, there won’t be anything wrong with it" but still charged full price for doing nowt but putting a sticker in the book.............

Cowboys! What use is that?

 

[rosalan]

As for a visual check by a dealer, you would be fully justified in walking away. Spending 10's of thousands of pounds may be run of the mill for a dealer, in reality it is our money we are risking when buying a van. As for the cost being high, I do not care as long as the job is done correctly and we are given a factual, not estimated, report.

 

[maz]

However, the % value would probably shoot right up the scale if there is a real problem and would be reading higher than other similar parts of the structure.

But I want to know if there could be an issue developing, not wait until it actually gets to the stage of being a full blown problem!

 

[Pausim]

But I want to know if there could be an issue developing, not wait until it actually gets to the stage of being a full blown problem!

There may be no answer to that, personally I doubt if the annual checks are consistent enough to pick up minor changes in damp levels. If you are really concerned perhaps you could buy a top quality damp meter and regularly check specific locations yourself, logging the results for future comparisons.

Is your moho one that is known to have damp problems?

 

[maz]

There may be no answer to that, personally I doubt if the annual checks are consistent enough to pick up minor changes in damp levels. If you are really concerned perhaps you could buy a top quality damp meter and regularly check specific locations yourself, logging the results for future comparisons.

Is your moho one that is known to have damp problems?

Each year I have a full hab (inc damp) check done on my van. I regard this as part of the van’s service history. The paperwork goes with the van when it is subsequently sold, and I expect to see similar paperwork for any van I purchase. That’s just the way I am.

I am not especially concerned about this current van developing damp, particularly as it is of ‘wood-free’ construction. (2016 Bürstner Ixeo 680G)

However, what I am concerned about is the dumbing down of damp reports to the extent that they are no report at all. Who gains from that? Certainly not the motorhome owner who has paid for it to be done.

 

[Lenny HB]

Several dealers are now just carrying out visual checks.

From memory I think the damp checking element of the hab service was about £200 on it's own. Not bad for five minutes effort (if that) and no paperwork at all. Even the hab service had no paperwork, they just said it had all been done as per the Carthago handbook so who knows if they actually did anything at all? The free loan car turned out to be the company Transit van but I quite enjoyed driving that!

Not much they can do with German vans where the interior walls are aluminium.
I only pay €70 for a damp check in Belgium never bother with hab checks, I can do that myself.

 

[mikeandmary]

I've just paid £225 for a habitation check, including damp, and my vehicles a PVC. Personally, I can't see why it takes three hours to do the check, but I have the report to say that all's well and good with Electric, Gas, Water, Damp, etc. I insist that any vehicle I pay my hard earned for, has a full and complete service history, or no deal. That way, there's no deep intake of breath when you come to sell, call it piece of mind.

 

[rangi]

I have a 1992 Auto Sleeper with a Monoque (sp?) body (one piece moulding)
My readings were;
Around Rooflights, which I fitted meself, 8%
Around windows (which I didn't) 11%

Total cost just under £30 for the moisture metre I bought meself!

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[tonyidle]

Vans that have no wood in their construction make damp checks pointless - where's it going to hide?

 

[tonka]

As much as I give Autotrail some slagging at times, I am only obliged to use an approved NCC company.
All my past 6 hab checks have been done by mobile engineers ( funsters as well) . I have had some issues but all the reports have been accepted and any work done without question.
I never trust the overpriced dealer checks, some of which only contract to the mobile guys and add their cut on top.

 

[maz]

I only pay €70 for a damp check in Belgium never bother with hab checks, I can do that myself.

I only pay £70 for a full hab check including a detailed damp report, which seems quite a bargain to me.

 

[maz]

Vans that have no wood in their construction make damp checks pointless - where's it going to hide?

Indeed. And yet in order to maintain the Burstner 5-year guarantee against water ingress, the van is obliged to undergo an annual damp inspection including % measurements at a Burstner dealer - for which the owner is expected to pay.

 

[Lenny HB]

Indeed. And yet in order to maintain the Burstner 5-year guarantee against water ingress, the van is obliged to undergo an annual damp inspection including % measurements at a Burstner dealer - for which the owner is expected to pay.

Yep p**es you off doesn't it.

 

[Northernraider]

Another reason not to bother with a brand new van ....cause they just take the pee with the annual requirements.

The last hab check I had done on the Frankia last year the guy didn't do half of it.

I won't bother with the hymer I can check most of it myself while using it and if anything needs sorted im unable to do I'll get someone qualified to do it.
But it is 14 years old so I've no warranties etc to worry about.

 

[Lenny HB]

Another reason not to bother with a brand new van ....cause they just take the pee with the annual requirements.

The last hab check I had done on the Frankia last year the guy didn't do half of it.

I won't bother with the hymer I can check most of it myself while using it and if anything needs sorted im unable to do I'll get someone qualified to do it.
But it is 14 years old so I've no warranties etc to worry about.

Apart from the damp check with German vans they don't stitch you up making you have a hab check to comply with the warranty, unlike Brit vans, another British rip off.

 

[Jands]

Do modern constructed motorhomes using plastic, insulation and metal have problems with damp, can understand older MH's using wood in the construction can be a problem.

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[tonyidle]

Do modern constructed motorhomes using plastic, insulation and metal have problems with damp, can understand older MH's using wood in the construction can be a problem.

No. Only wood (or other organic material) holds moisture. The big issue with damp is where it is absorbed, undetected, until it rots or softens the affected material. Motorhomes and caravans used to suffer because the inside layer, usually plywood, was invariably plastic coated and hid what was happening behind it. By the time the decor was affected and damp became visible any wood in the affected wall or other area was already rotten. In a van without wood of any sort water can still enter through a poor seam or fixing but what is visible on the inside is all there is. Fix the point of entry and the repair is complete. On top of which the panel joining methods used on todays vans are pretty well engineered so any sort of leak is much less likely. As stated above all this good news depends on there being NO wood used in ceilings, walls, and floors. Some otherwise wood-free vans still have plywood sandwich floors.