Check your leisure battery! (1 Viewer)

[Makingtrax]

Just got back from a stay at the fantastic adults only Red Kite Touring Park in Mid-Wales. But whilst there, I noticed on electric hook, up the battery charger fan under the passenger seat kept going. I checked the voltage and it was reading 14.2v and when I inspected the battery it was literally boiling with droplets in the vent pipe. You hear of batteries exploding and this couldn’t have been far off, could hardly touch it. Unhooked the battery immediately and let it cool down.

It’s a Banner AGM Running Bull not yet 3 years old. Reading threads on here and other forums, it’s pretty clear that there’s a lot of confusion in the industry about leisure batteries, what type is best, compatibility with chargers and how they should be maintained. This particularly AGM battery is clearly not maintenance free and has possibly dried out through continuous charging. I usually leave the van on continuous hook up, even at home, having assumed the 6 phase charger would take care of the battery, responding to it’s state, going to the conditioning phase eventually, where the charger only switches in once every 12 days.

Now installed a shiny new Varta Professional LFD 90 on next day delivery, which is as cool as a cucumber and the charger is working fine cycling through it’s phases. Not sure what vans have Banner AGMs fitted or how different people look after them, but it’s worth checking the battery from time to time to see if it’s overheating. These batteries don’t last long, clearly. A battery explosion is not the best!

 

[chaser]

My solar always runs at 14.2 , is this wrong , it's been like that for acouple of years now.

 

[Camping Gaza]

My solar always runs at 14.2 , is this wrong , it's been like that for acouple of years now.

It should have various parameters depending on your solar controller ie:

Over voltage disconnect voltage
Charging limit voltage
Equalise charging voltage
Boost charging voltage
Float charging voltage
Low voltage disconnect
Discharge limit voltage

It should have duration charging in mins, ie 120m for equalise and boost

These figures will be in your manual set up for each type of battery, flooded, sealed, gel and you should set your charger controller for your battery type.

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[Makingtrax]

My solar always runs at 14.2 , is this wrong , it's been like that for acouple of years now.

That seems fine. But if it’s continually charging a stop start Banner AGM battery, I suspect it won’t last 3 years.

 

[Makingtrax]

It should have various parameters depending on your solar controller ie:

Over voltage disconnect voltage
Charging limit voltage
Equalise charging voltage
Boost charging voltage
Float charging voltage
Low voltage disconnect
Discharge limit voltage

It should have duration charging in mins, ie 120m for equalise and boost

These figures will be in your manual set up for each type of battery, flooded, sealed, gel and you should set your charger controller for your battery type.

My charger is controlled by dip switches. But who tells you this when you buy a motorhome? I suspect my settings weren’t right for this battery.

 

[Camping Gaza]

FYI

An internet search will show up some problems with the running bull brand, there's also a lot of hot air floating about regarding best battery, NCC approved etc.

Remember gold plated Hi Fi connectors?

Lithium is the future. (unless you are bothered about the mining of lithium of course)

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[GPW]

was reading 14.2v and when I inspected the battery it was literally boiling

It sounds like 1 or more of the battery cells had shorted out and so the remaining voltage was concentrated over less cells.

I.e. 14.2V over 6 cells = 2.37V, but over 4 cells = 3.55V each cell - much more.

My solar always runs at 14.2 , is this wrong

It is a problem if that's always the voltage, because when fully charged a lead-acid only needs about 13.2V to stop it discharging. 14.2 will force a slight current even in a new battery and end up eroding one of the battery side internally as electrolysis will start - like on a boat in salt water when the anode stops working.

 

[pelican]

Just got back from a stay at the fantastic adults only Red Kite Touring Park in Mid-Wales. But whilst there, I noticed on electric hook, up the battery charger fan under the passenger seat kept going. I checked the voltage and it was reading 14.2v and when I inspected the battery it was literally boiling with droplets in the vent pipe. You hear of batteries exploding and this couldn’t have been far off, could hardly touch it. Unhooked the battery immediately and let it cool down.

It’s a Banner AGM Running Bull not yet 3 years old. Reading threads on here and other forums, it’s pretty clear that there’s a lot of confusion in the industry about leisure batteries, what type is best, compatibility with chargers and how they should be maintained. This particularly AGM battery is clearly not maintenance free and has possibly dried out through continuous charging. I usually leave the van on continuous hook up, even at home, having assumed the 6 phase charger would take care of the battery, responding to it’s state, going to the conditioning phase eventually, where the charger only switches in once every 12 days.

Now installed a shiny new Varta Professional LFD 90 on next day delivery, which is as cool as a cucumber and the charger is working fine cycling through it’s phases. Not sure what vans have Banner AGMs fitted or how different people look after them, but it’s worth checking the battery from time to time today see if it’s overheating. These batteries don’t last long, clearly. A battery explosion is not the best!

No problem with my three year old Banner battery probably because I check the electrolyte level regularly.
That's why it has opening caps to the cells?

 

[Makingtrax]

FYI

An internet search will show up some problems with the running bull brand, there's also a lot of hot air floating about regarding best battery, NCC approved etc.

Remember gold plated Hi Fi connectors?

Lithium is the future. (unless you are bothered about the mining of lithium of course)

According to another forum, at one stage on the RoadPro site, they had a message that Banner AGMs were not suitable as leisure batteries.

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[pelican]

According to another forum, at one stage on the RoadPro site, they had a message that Banner AGMs were not suitable as leisure batteries.

No problems with mine but I regularly check electrolyte levels.

 

[pappajohn]

That seems fine. But if it’s continually charging a stop start Banner AGM battery, I suspect it won’t last 3 years.

If its continually charging any battery the controllers knackered..... That's what it's there for, to control and regulate charge.

 

[Makingtrax]

No problem with my three year old Banner battery probably because I check the electrolyte level regularly.
That's why it has opening caps to the cells?

Absolutely what you should be doing. But most people are under the impression that AGM batteries are maintenance free. It’s all part of the confusion. Here’s what the alpha battery site says.

Banner 60501 AGM battery by Banner

Top quality Banner AGM running Bull Battery.

Key Points .

They are totally sealed against any type of leakage and are classed as spill proof Because they have low internal resistance, they can be fully recharged at a lower voltage. Fluid level never needs to be checked.

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[Makingtrax]

If its continually charging any battery the controllers knackered..... That's what it's there for, to control and regulate charge.

My controller is fine. It was trying to charge a battery with a short circuit.

 

[Stealaway]

Why does my engine battery voltage read 15 volts sometimes on solar charging?

 

[Augusta08]

I had the same experience with one of my Gel batteries in the Augusta. I let it cool down and changed them both. I'm not sure if the fact they lie on their side? Or is that acceptable for Gel batteries? Anyway the new ones are on their sides and so far so good.

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[pelican]

Absolutely what you should be doing. But most people are under the impression that AGM batteries are maintenance free. It’s all part of the confusion. Here’s what the alpha battery site says.

Banner 60501 AGM battery by Banner

Top quality Banner AGM running Bull Battery.

Key Points .

They are totally sealed against any type of leakage and are classed as spill proof Because they have low internal resistance, they can be fully recharged at a lower voltage. Fluid level never needs to be checked.

Yes and when you look at the battery it is obvious.

 

[Tykatem]

Absolutely what you should be doing. But most people are under the impression that AGM batteries are maintenance free. It’s all part of the confusion. Here’s what the alpha battery site says.

Banner 60501 AGM battery by Banner

Top quality Banner AGM running Bull Battery.

Key Points .

They are totally sealed against any type of leakage and are classed as spill proof Because they have low internal resistance, they can be fully recharged at a lower voltage. Fluid level never needs to be checked.

I have 2 of these Banner AGM running bulls and when parked up they just rely on being kept charged by my solar panels. They're sealed units, 7 years old and as the manufacturer says, "the fluid level never needs to be checked"

Pete

 

[Just smiffy]

I have 2 of these Banner AGM running bulls and when parked up they just rely on being kept charged by my solar panels. They're sealed units, 7 years old and as the manufacturer says, "the fluid level never needs to be checked"

Pete

Your not the only one.... I have two that are 7y old... good solar is the secret I think..??

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[Makingtrax]

I have 2 of these Banner AGM running bulls and when parked up they just rely on being kept charged by my solar panels. They're sealed units, 7 years old and as the manufacturer says, "the fluid level never needs to be checked"

Pete

Getting 7 years out of these batteries is incredible. Ask Lenny HB how good they are?

My theory is that the type of battery, the settings on your charger and the way you look after them are all linked. Get it wrong and you won’t even get 3 years. And I believe, unless you’re careful, leisure batteries can be dangerous.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yes and when you look at the battery it is obvious.

Are you sure you’ve got the AGM type and not the wet battery, the AGMs are black all over and the wet battery has just a black top?

 

[Lenny HB]

Get it wrong and you won’t even get 3 years.

Very optimistic, mine lasted 18 months.
When people claim their AGM's have lasted many years I often ask then to do a controlled discharge to see how they are performing. No one ever bothers because often they don't want to know the truth.
On mine one was giving 10ah the other 11ah, if a lowish power user that may be enough for some people and they don't know their batteries are .
I take it with a pinch of salt if they say they have lasted x years if they are not prepared to test them.

Banner's are probably worst of the bunch and they don't honour their warranty, the Varta fair a little better. You only need to look at the German forums to see how bad AGM's are, also Mercedes & BMW are ditching them in their cars due to reliability problems.

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[Makingtrax]

Very optimistic, mine lasted 18 months.
When people claim their AGM's have lasted many years I often ask then to do a controlled discharge to see how they are performing. No one ever bothers because often they don't want to know the truth.
On mine one was giving 10ah the other 11ah, if a lowish power user that may be enough for some people and they don't know their batteries are .
I take it with a pinch of salt if they say they have lasted x years if they are not prepared to test them.

Having read a lot over the last few days I suspect that gel batteries are the way to go if you use the right dip switches in your charger unit. The stop start batteries are not true leisure batteries.

I made a snap decision about the Varta LFD 90 because I needed a battery quick. But I think it’s a lot better than the AGM Running Bulls.

It doesn't self discharge much, doesn't lose much fluid, doesn't gas, doesn't corrode internally, and it only costs just £95.

 

[Lenny HB]

I made a snap decision about the Varta LFD 90 because I needed a battery quick. But I think it’s a lot better than the AGM Running Bulls.

It doesn't self discharge much, doesn't lose much fluid, doesn't gas, doesn't corrode internally, and it only costs just £95.

They have a good rep, useable power per £ & life Gel's come out on top.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Our battery did the same in June. I noticed the battery was still taking 7 amps or so we'll into the afternoon. Then suddenly it went to zero amps. The Votronic solar controller had stopped charging due to high battery temperature. It must have been about 50°c ?
Might be an idea to put a cheap LCD thermometer on the battery with high alarm.

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[autorouter]

It’s a Banner AGM Running Bull not yet 3 years old.

Banner battery terminology is complex and can be confusing. They say it's 'AGM Technology'. But they simply put glass fibre mat between the plates to make the paste more resistant to falling off due to vibration. There is free liquid electrolyte elsewhere, removable screw plugs for topping up, and electrolyte level marks on the case. Since they not recombinant AGM batteries with pressure seal, it is not a good idea to subject them to a proper 'AGM' profile (14.8 volts for several hours). Presumably on AGM setting it will have a very short life.

 

[PeteH]

If its continually charging any battery the controllers knackered..... That's what it's there for, to control and regulate charge.

Bearing in mind that IF one cell is down, it is also likely that the Controller is "fooled" into believing the whole battery still needs charging, in which case the charge rate will remain high and the remaining cells will overheat. In my Garage, at at home. I have a 180AMP charger/Starter boost, the size of a small suitcase, It has to be watched carefully if I use it to charge any battery!. I still use a Hydrometer on (wet) batteries that have access to the cells, Its still the best way IMHO to assess individual cells. Obviously no good for `gells or sealed batteries.

 

[Makingtrax]

Our battery did the same in June. I noticed the battery was still taking 7 amps or so we'll into the afternoon. Then suddenly it went to zero amps. The Votronic solar controller had stopped charging due to high battery temperature. It must have been about 50°c ?
Might be an idea to put a cheap LCD thermometer on the battery with high alarm.

That’s a top idea. I couldn’t touch mine it was so hot.

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[Makingtrax]

Banner battery terminology is complex and can be confusing. They say it's 'AGM Technology'. But they simply put glass fibre mat between the plates to make the paste more resistant to falling off due to vibration. There is free liquid electrolyte elsewhere, removable screw plugs for topping up, and electrolyte level marks on the case. Since they not recombinant AGM batteries with pressure seal, it is not a good idea to subject them to a proper 'AGM' profile (14.8 volts for several hours). Presumably on AGM setting it will have a very short life.

The whole industry is confusing once you start looking into it. And it’s not easy to draw conclusions because there are so many variables:
Type of solar panel, it’s output, the inverter
Alternator usage and output
Type of leisure battery charger and it’s patterned output
How the battery is treated in it’s down time eg isolated or left on trickle charge
The wattage of appliances in the van and how often they’re used or charging usage for portable equipment like iPads etc

So a battery that might well last one motorhomer 5 years, might last another 6 months.

However, a search of the internet does show that AGM Banner Running Bulls have a short lifetime for a significant number of people, which might suggest that they’re not suitable.

 

[Clarky]

Wasn’t there some controversy about Banner batteries several years ago?
I seem to remember talking to Andy Harris of RoadPro at an NEC show where they had a couple of batteries cut in half to demonstrate that they weren’t all they were cracked up to be.
We had had a pair of Banners on our Autotrail that didn’t last very long.

Richard

 

[Makingtrax]

Bearing in mind that IF one cell is down, it is also likely that the Controller is "fooled" into believing the whole battery still needs charging, in which case the charge rate will remain high and the remaining cells will overheat. In my Garage I have a 180AMP charger/Starter boost, the size of a small suitcase, It has to be watched carefully if I use it to charge any battery!. I still use a Hydrometer on (wet) batteries that have access to the cells, Its still the best way IMHO to assess individual cells. Obviously no good for `gells or sealed batteries.

I don’t think a lot of motorhome users remove their batteries. Why would they if they’re sealed, unless temperatures drop very low. Modern chargers are incredibly clever. Mine has 6 phases, and in the last stage, the charger only cuts in once every 12 days for an 80 min bulk phase charge.

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