Brussels come out against bikes yet again (1 Viewer)

[2x2camper]

Surely, a person traveling on a motorbike would produce less emissions than the person traveling In a car??

Although if they walked or cycled it would be even less.

 

[StephDeLux]

Although if they walked or cycled it would be even less.

Right. Just in case you haven't been there, weather in Brussels is not exactly Costa Del Sol, the city is not terribly flat and for most people time is an issue.

 

[2x2camper]

Right. Just in case you haven't been there, weather in Brussels is not exactly Costa Del Sol, the city is not terribly flat and for most people time is an issue.

Or just travel less. Something has to give. If we don't change our behaviour we will not cut the emissions.

The plain fact is and the responses to threads like this show it is people will not willingly change their behaviour because as usual it's everyone else that should do it.

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[StephDeLux]

Or just travel less. Something has to give. If we don't change our behaviour we will not cut the emissions.

The plain fact is and the responses to threads like this show it is people will not willingly change their behaviour because as usual it's everyone else that should do it.

Here we go again with moralizing and virtue signaling.

 

[Paddywack]

Surely, a person traveling on a motorbike would produce less emissions than the person traveling In a car??
I want to know,who was the eejiot who decided to reduce power to vacuum cleaners? Was there ever a more stupid law????
Bet it was a man ??

Not if the motorbike is a two stroke.

And you are confusing power used with suction power - there is not a direct correlation. https://lifestyle.euronics.co.uk/buyers-guide/floorcare/power-suction-and-energy-efficiency/

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Or just travel less. Something has to give. If we don't change our behaviour we will not cut the emissions.

The plain fact is and the responses to threads like this show it is people will not willingly change their behaviour because as usual it's everyone else that should do it.

You make it sound so easy, unfortunately that is simply not the reality for many who are still in work. Some can work from home, some will use public transport, for others those are not viable options.

And as for two strokes, in the UK at least, they are now a rarity in comparison to four stroke powered two wheeled vehicles.

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[Paddywack]

Here we go again with moralizing and virtue signaling.

I'm guessing you are suggesting that those 36,000 people dying in the UK because of air pollution where just virtue signaling?

 

[Theonlysue]

A good way to reduce pollution I've been told is to stop the planes flying.

 

[StephDeLux]

I'm guessing you are suggesting that those 36,000 people dying in the UK because of air pollution where just virtue signaling?

God, how low can you bring the argument?

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[2x2camper]

As usual there are those who cannot see past how we run our lives at present and don't want to change no matter what argument is put in front of them.

The only way to reduce emissions is to not use powered vehicles, even electric vehicles are causing emissions somewhere. You can put all the excuse you want about how hard it is to change but we need to change. At some point we will be forced to because there won't be any oil, but I suppose that doesn't bother many folks on here as they won't be around.

I don't have the answers and being a motorhome owner I recognise that I am part of the problem.

 

[StephDeLux]

I don't have the answers

Obviously. All you can do is pontificate, signal your virtue, give lessons to others and spread some guilt for good measure.

 

[2x2camper]

Obviously. All you can do is pontificate, signal your virtue, give lessons to others and spread some guilt for good measure.

So what are you suggesting we do? Keep on going as we are doing now?

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[StephDeLux]

So what are you suggesting we do? Keep on going as we are doing now?

Why would I have to suggest anything to solve your imaginary problem?

 

[2x2camper]

So pollution is imaginary and not killing anyone as well as using up the world's resources?

 

[Paddywack]

Why would I have to suggest anything to solve your imaginary problem?

Report on these imaginary problems https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30235-4/fulltext

I take it you don't bother with Doctors and other experts?

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[Jaws]

I don’t know Brussels well, but it seems they have very good public transport systems and my guess is they want to restrict all vehicles to reduce emissions to make the the town centre a more pleasant, pedestrian friendly and cleaner environment.
A good thing, in my view.
Seems like they are doing things the right way round, provide a good public transport system then start reducing vehicle usage within that area till only necessary vehicles are being used.

I would think the fact that they have a good public transport system would negate or at least reduce the need for private vehicles to enter the city.
It’s all about reducing emissions in town centres so people who live and work there can breathe clean air.

No one can argue agin either of these statements
But they are not trying to ban cars or vans, just motorcycles and scooters

It has been estimated ( albeit by interested / biased people ) that if all cars were banned and only small motorcycles or scooters were allowed in to cities, congestion as it is known would simply stop... end of.
And to be fair, it is STATIONARY vehicles that cause over 80% of the present pollution

 

[teknik155]

Report on these imaginary problems https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30235-4/fulltext

I take it you don't bother with Doctors and other experts?

Great to hear that wack paddy has read the report that he has quoted in which it says that it is not a very good report as :
"The absence of preintervention health data prevented the study team from a direct evaluation of the health effect of the LEZ. "
"
Another important aspect worth discussing is that the study
lacked a control population unaffected by the intervention, as acknowledged by the authors. "

So the report study was based on an inaccurate base of statistical data. Surely with that attitude you can make numbers say anything.
If you type "who is causing the air pollution in the uk" into Google one of the first exerts shown is from the The British Lung Foundation and the quote from their site is:
" In the UK, high pollution levels are sometimes caused by dust that has been blown from the Sahara desert. These Saharan dust episodes can be serious for someone with a lung condition. Other natural sources of air pollution include volcanoes, sea spray, pollen and soil. "

You see there is a big problem with these "empty vessels with the loudest noise" who spout all this rubbish about deaths caused by air pollution. The coroner does not class air polution as a form of death. People say they're affect by the air pollution as it makes their asthma worse.
When that person dies their death could be caused by asthma inflamed by diesel emissions OR by sand from the sahara ,pollen or soil.
Also the 40,000 deaths a year being blamed on air pollution, what a great media scream that is.
But if you read up on this you will find that this number is based on an equation worked out by a scientist called Pope using figures he collected in 2002 in the USA.
Well I do hope that the general opinion is that we are slightly more environmentally better now a days what with all this electric this and that. And also the USA has more coal fired power stations and more cars than the poor old UK.
So are we believing all these figures are accurate or are we being fed bull___t by the loud mouths who love the sound of their own voices.
Oh Paddywack I may have spelt your name wrong or did I???

 

[jongood]

I don't have the answers and being a motorhome owner I recognise that I am part of the problem.

I would find a post that contains answers much more interesting than posts that contain unattainable ideology.

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[jongood]

Surely, a person traveling on a motorbike would produce less emissions than the person traveling In a car??
I want to know,who was the eejiot who decided to reduce power to vacuum cleaners? Was there ever a more stupid law????
Bet it was a man ??

AFAIK its the same people who have come up with a 260 page document detailing how to make kettles more efficient.

 

[Paddywack]

Great to hear that wack paddy has read the report that he has quoted in which it says that it is not a very good report as :
"The absence of preintervention health data prevented the study team from a direct evaluation of the health effect of the LEZ. "
"
Another important aspect worth discussing is that the study
lacked a control population unaffected by the intervention, as acknowledged by the authors. "

So the report study was based on an inaccurate base of statistical data. Surely with that attitude you can make numbers say anything.
If you type "who is causing the air pollution in the uk" into Google one of the first exerts shown is from the The British Lung Foundation and the quote from their site is:
" In the UK, high pollution levels are sometimes caused by dust that has been blown from the Sahara desert. These Saharan dust episodes can be serious for someone with a lung condition. Other natural sources of air pollution include volcanoes, sea spray, pollen and soil. "

You see there is a big problem with these "empty vessels with the loudest noise" who spout all this rubbish about deaths caused by air pollution. The coroner does not class air polution as a form of death. People say they're affect by the air pollution as it makes their asthma worse.
When that person dies their death could be caused by asthma inflamed by diesel emissions OR by sand from the sahara ,pollen or soil.
Also the 40,000 deaths a year being blamed on air pollution, what a great media scream that is.
But if you read up on this you will find that this number is based on an equation worked out by a scientist called Pope using figures he collected in 2002 in the USA.
Well I do hope that the general opinion is that we are slightly more environmentally better now a days what with all this electric this and that. And also the USA has more coal fired power stations and more cars than the poor old UK.
So are we believing all these figures are accurate or are we being fed bull___t by the loud mouths who love the sound of their own voices.
Oh Paddywack I may have spelt your name wrong or did I???

Nice piece of selective quoting there.
Rather than me cut and paste the actual findings - the whole report, I'd encourage funsters to follow the link and draw their own conclusions.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30235-4/fulltext

PS I cant answer your question "oh Paddywack I may have spelt your name wrong or did I???" as its unclear if it's just a very weak pun you were attempting or if you have misspelled my name - but if you have to explain a joke its not normally a very good one.

 

[teknik155]

I thought that "quoting" something to prove a point was allowed, you do it ,I do it and most people do it. Was it " selective " in as much as it saved people reading the whole report that you quoted . Was it selective in as much as the Lancet admitted that the figures they quoted were not accurate? I am happy for people to read this quote as you could have picked many more misleading points to hammer your point across.
Of course there is going to be air pollution in places were there are vehicles. That is the problem with the majority of the population we need vehicles. you get food clothes and everything on vehicles. Do away with vehicles what do you get nothing.Oh get rid of lorries nasty polluters!!!! well all sensible people know that it will not happen soon or later. get rid of buses taxis fire engines ambulances etc etc It won't happen in our lifetime.
Scientist's are the world of the future. From 150 yrs ago scientists have designed coal fired trains petrol powered cars diesel powered lorries jet planes and lead in fuel just to name a few oh and plastic to make the world a better place.
Did they make the world a better place?????
They invented communication and "fine tuned "it with face book twitter etc for the good of man kind so we see thinks differently but all that has happened is that people tell us that governments are controlling the media and controlling us with what we hear see and do.
But is it just the governments that are controlling us and our thoughts?
Why do groups like Greenpeace etc employ psychiatrists etc are they being used to make their thoughts ours???
Not me as My father said to me there are 2 sides to a story and I like to read both sides before I jump in like a sheep

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[StephDeLux]

Nice piece of selective quoting there.

Quoting is selective by nature. It is kind of the point, actually.