Bailey Electrics

[SomeoneElse]

We've had our Bailey for nearly 2 months now, and I have added a second leisure battery and a NASA monitor. I now have a better indication of what is happening to the leisure battery.

The good news it that on EHU, the battery is charged up. It eventually, after about 20hours, reaches 13.8V at 0.1A, an ideal floating charge.

The bad news is that when I start the engine, after removing the EHU it seems that engine and leisure battery are simply connected together, with no diode to prevent draining of the leisure battery.
With the engine running I see a discharge of 2 to 3 amps. There is no difference between tick over and 2000 revs.

The even worst news is that when I switch the fridge to 12V I see a discharge of 8A. I expect this falls over time.

The result is that when I arrive on site I have a leisure battery at 12.6V which needs another few hours or so on EHU to get it back to fully charged.

Is this normal?
Should I run the fridge on gas while traveling? The Bailey has a crash detection gas valve so that the heater can be used while traveling.

Any comments or suggestions?

Gordon

 

[hilldweller]

There is a "split charge relay" that connects the engine and leisure batteries as soon as the alternator provides current, so both batteries share the alternator, it becomes one big battery.

12.6 is fully charged. 13V+ is float charging.

I'm guessing the NASA is getting confused because of the way it monitors one battery. I may be wrong here. With the various earth paths on the two batteries it's all very subtle and the NASA is measuring only a few millivolts to determine the current flow.

The safe option is to run the fridge on 12V when driving, this is wired into the starter battery.

 

[Tobster]

hi i have a Bailey Approach can anyone point me in the direct of the split charge relay ? i have the ignition battery charging when the engine is running yet the leisure battery does not receive any charge.

 

[GeoffnDee]

Tobster Is the leisure battery main fuse ok ? (normally fitted close to the battery) also does the fridge work ok on 12v when the engine is running ?. Depending on the type / model of the Power supply / Distribution unit you have fitted, the split charge system may be built into it .

 

[PhilandMena]

Is your alternator charging ? You say when you start your engine after removing the hook up you have a drop of 2-3 Amps ??? and when you switch your fridge on (I assume with the engine running) you have a drop of 8 Amps. Sounds like an alternator issue to me on the basis of your post.

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[Tobster]

Hi guys, I will elaborate more. The Leisure battery charges when I have external power connected via the internal charger which I believe is located in the PDU.
With no External power connected everything works fine off the leisure battery.
When I start the engine the voltage of the starter battery rises to nearly 14v so the alternator is working but at no point does the leisure battery receive any charging voltage.
I am unsure as to whether there is a split charge relay ( VSR ) or if the leisure battery charging voltage is controlled via the PDU. There is a random plug and negative wire as part of a small loom in the starter battery compartment with no relay in the plug that could possibly be a VSR.
The only fuse I haven`t tested yet is the 15A one from the starter battery marked ( CAR ) on the PDU - I will do this tomorrow

 

[GeoffnDee]

Tobster If your PDU is a BCA unit (as I think it may be ) the relays are built into it (split charge , fridge , habitation ,etc,). If your fridge is also not working on12v with the engine running it may be that the alternator engine running D+ signal to the PDU needed for these relays to operate is missing. But if the fridge works , 12v engine running , then the D+ signal is getting to the PDU , and the built in split charge relay could be faulty. (or the PCB)

 

[Tobster]

Tobster If your PDU is a BCA unit (as I think it may be ) the relays are built into it (split charge , fridge , habitation ,etc,). If your fridge is also not working on12v with the engine running it may be that the alternator engine running D+ signal to the PDU needed for these relays to operate is missing. But if the fridge works , 12v engine running , then the D+ signal is getting to the PDU , and the built in split charge relay could be faulty. (or the PCB)

hi Geoff - that is a very good direction to go in - I will try and find time to look at it today and give an update later on. thanks

 

[SomeoneElse]

As the OP of this thread I have learnt a lot about Bailey electric in the 9 years we have owned our Approach 625.
GeoffnDee is correct the three control functions (relays) are in the PDU.
On my Approach 625, end lounge, the PDU is at the back under the seat filling the space inbound of the wheel arch. This means the cables from the engine battery are long, thin and go over the habitation door, the resulting voltage drop is signification, especially when the fridge in on 12V. As a result I rarely got more than 12.5V at the PDU. If when the leisure battery was fully charged at the start of a journey some of the power for the fridge came from the leisure battery, so rather than charging it, it was discharged slightly on the journey.
To check that the D+ signal is reaching the PDU its easier to use the habitation power, ie lights, switch on some lights, start the engine they should go out. Stop the engine and they should come back on again.
I have now disconnected the lines from the engine battery and installed my own large (25sqmm) cables to a Votronic triple (VBCS 45/30/350 Triple-CI)
This gives me 40Amp B2B and also replaces the mains charger (full 30A smart charger) and solar controller. The result is the 12V for the fridge comes from the leisure battery but only when the B2B is charging. The 40A from the B2B is split 12A to the fridge and 28 to the leisure battery.
When I get round to it I will install my own relay controlled by the D+ signal to power the fridge from my large cable from the engine battery leaving all 40Amps to charge the leisure battery.

 

[Tobster]

As the OP of this thread I have learnt a lot about Bailey electric in the 9 years we have owned our Approach 625.
GeoffnDee is correct the three control functions (relays) are in the PDU.
On my Approach 625, end lounge, the PDU is at the back under the seat filling the space inbound of the wheel arch. This means the cables from the engine battery are long, thin and go over the habitation door, the resulting voltage drop is signification, especially when the fridge in on 12V. As a result I rarely got more than 12.5V at the PDU. If when the leisure battery was fully charged at the start of a journey some of the power for the fridge came from the leisure battery, so rather than charging it, it was discharged slightly on the journey.
To check that the D+ signal is reaching the PDU its easier to use the habitation power, ie lights, switch on some lights, start the engine they should go out. Stop the engine and they should come back on again.
I have now disconnected the lines from the engine battery and installed my own large (25sqmm) cables to a Votronic triple (VBCS 45/30/350 Triple-CI)
This gives me 40Amp B2B and also replaces the mains charger (full 30A smart charger) and solar controller. The result is the 12V for the fridge comes from the leisure battery but only when the B2B is charging. The 40A from the B2B is split 12A to the fridge and 28 to the leisure battery.
When I get round to it I will install my own relay controlled by the D+ signal to power the fridge from my large cable from the engine battery leaving all 40Amps to charge the leisure battery.

cheers for this info - great advice I just on my way out now to go and investigate.

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[Tobster]

ok a quick update. The internal Hab lights switch off when I start the engine and the controller above the door displays `engine running`
I am starting to think the split relay maybe at fault. I have had the circuit board out of the PDU ( BCA ) and started to trace wires before darkness fell.
does anyone have a circuit diagram ? If the lights are dropping out when the engine runs yet I have no charge then I am thinking there are 2 relays - 1 to drop the hab area and one to charge

 

[pappajohn]

It's British therefore the hab electrics are turned off when the engine is running ....foreign vans don't have this archaic function
If that's the case there will be 3 relays....hab area cut out, fridge and split charge.

 

[lunarman]

Tobster I have just asked my local Bailey mechanic if you have the BCA system the split charge relay is built into the body/vehicle interface module that is located under the plastic cover on the bottom of the pillar behind the drivers seat.

 

[autorouter]

The only fuse I haven`t tested yet is the 15A one from the starter battery marked ( CAR ) on the PDU - I will do this tomorrow

That sounds like a good idea. If the split charge relay is built into the PDU, there will be a thick wire from the starter battery to the PDU, with a big fuse very near the starter battery end of the wire. That's worth checking too.

The wire from the split charge relay to the PDU will also have a big fuse near the leisure battery, but it sounds like that's OK because all the leisure battery functions are working.

I am unsure as to whether there is a split charge relay ( VSR

The split charge relay won't be a voltage-sensitive Relay (VSR) but will be a standard relay, triggered from the D+ signal from the alternator. The D+ is working, because the habitation relay is switching off when the engine starts, as it was intended to do.

If as lunarman says the split charge relay is not in the PDU but in the body/vehicle interface, you'll have to investigate the wires to/from that.

 

[GIZMO1020]

As the OP of this thread I have learnt a lot about Bailey electric in the 9 years we have owned our Approach 625.
GeoffnDee is correct the three control functions (relays) are in the PDU.
On my Approach 625, end lounge, the PDU is at the back under the seat filling the space inbound of the wheel arch. This means the cables from the engine battery are long, thin and go over the habitation door, the resulting voltage drop is signification, especially when the fridge in on 12V. As a result I rarely got more than 12.5V at the PDU. If when the leisure battery was fully charged at the start of a journey some of the power for the fridge came from the leisure battery, so rather than charging it, it was discharged slightly on the journey.
To check that the D+ signal is reaching the PDU its easier to use the habitation power, ie lights, switch on some lights, start the engine they should go out. Stop the engine and they should come back on again.
I have now disconnected the lines from the engine battery and installed my own large (25sqmm) cables to a Votronic triple (VBCS 45/30/350 Triple-CI)
This gives me 40Amp B2B and also replaces the mains charger (full 30A smart charger) and solar controller. The result is the 12V for the fridge comes from the leisure battery but only when the B2B is charging. The 40A from the B2B is split 12A to the fridge and 28 to the leisure battery.
When I get round to it I will install my own relay controlled by the D+ signal to power the fridge from my large cable from the engine battery leaving all 40Amps to charge the leisure battery.

Advice please - we have a Bailey approach 620 (2012) which is having problems with the van battery not charging when on campsite in Spain. Have had 2 jump starts at different sites and hope to make it back to UK on Sunday.
A mechanic came on site today and put a charger onto van battery. Will be returning tomorrow to see if it has charged up.
Could it be our metatrak locator is draining the van battery. Unfortunately, found out tonight that all the hab lights are not working. The microwave, fridge and tv plus awning light are all working so cannot understand why hab lights are not working.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as this is our first time out abroad with our Bailey.

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[Ingwe]

We have a 2012 Approach 620. We found out early that the cab battery isn’t charged on hook up. So we fitted a Battery Master (available from this site’s shop). Easily connected, we have not since then had a flat cab battery as the Battery Master sends current from the leisure battery to the cab battery when the voltage difference is about 1.5volts. There is a diode that prevents any current from going the other way i.e. from the cab battery to the leisure battery.

As for the habitation lights not working, while the fridge and awning light do, may because the light switch isn’t turned on. There are separate switches above the hab door and it’s possible to turn off the lights only. You can also switch off the pump from the same control panel. So I’d check that the lights switch os turned on. Hope this is some help.

 

[Paul Wilkins]

Advice please - we have a Bailey approach 620 (2012) which is having problems with the van battery not charging when on campsite in Spain. Have had 2 jump starts at different sites and hope to make it back to UK on Sunday.
A mechanic came on site today and put a charger onto van battery. Will be returning tomorrow to see if it has charged up.
Could it be our metatrak locator is draining the van battery. Unfortunately, found out tonight that all the hab lights are not working. The microwave, fridge and tv plus awning light are all working so cannot understand why hab lights are not working.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as this is our first time out abroad with our Bailey.

Hi Gizmo.. I know this is an old thread, but I'm suffering the same issue as you describe. Cab battery not charging while on EHU even though I have the setting in the control panel set to 'On'. I can also get the same issue with the lights if I de-select the cab battery charge option in the control panel.. did you solve your problem?

 

[Ingwe]

Hi Gizmo.. I know this is an old thread, but I'm suffering the same issue as you describe. Cab battery not charging while on EHU even though I have the setting in the control panel set to 'On'. I can also get the same issue with the lights if I de-select the cab battery charge option in the control panel.. did you solve your problem?

I’m not sure that the Bailey charges the cab battery when on EHU. It didn’t on our 2012 Approach 620. There was some initial misunderstanding, on my behalf where the manual describes how you can choose either the leisure or the cab battery as the primary power source. I initially confused this to mean that one could select which battery to charge from the control panel. Only the leisure battery is charged when on hook up.

We overcame this by fitting a Battery Master which was simple to do.

I attach a photo of the relevant page of our manual in case it helps. I accept your van may be different.

 

[Paul Wilkins]

I’m not sure that the Bailey charges the cab battery when on EHU. It didn’t on our 2012 Approach 620. There was some initial misunderstanding, on my behalf where the manual describes how you can choose either the leisure or the cab battery as the primary power source. I initially confused this to mean that one could select which battery to charge from the control panel. Only the leisure battery is charged when on hook up.

We overcame this by fitting a Battery Master which was simple to do.

I attach a photo of the relevant page of our manual in case it helps. I accept your van may be different.
View attachment 1158299

Thanks for getting back to me. My 2017 Approach does or should I say used to maintain the vehicle battery. I'm not sure if the Split Charge Relay has toasted but I can hear relays clicking in the PDU when I switch between vehicle and leisure batteries in the Seattle Control Panel.
The odd thing is when I select 'Charge Vehicle Battery' to Off, I lose the 12v circuits in the MH. I'm going to disconnect everything today and see if that clears the fault. There are some non-replaceable fuses in the PDU that require all power to be removed.