Automatic V Manual on Motorhome (2 Viewers)

[peterc10]

The Carthago is two years old this summer, so considering my options.

The point you make about the Comfortmatic not changing from 6th gear on a hill is something that I am wondering about too, as the cruise control always disengages when the clutch or brake are pressed (on a manual).

That is why I was asking because I do not know if it is a bug or not. It is no real problem because all you do when it happens is put your foot on the accelerator and it chooses the right gear and carries on. The hill has to be pretty steep. In UK nearly all hills that you would want to use cruise on are not steep enough, but I got caught out on one or two of the steep autoroute hills in Italy and France.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Problem with Automatics is, there are Automatics with Torque Converter, the true auto. And ComfortMatic, ShiftMatic, SprintShift which are all robotised manual gearboxes.

We recently saw a cracking German Coachbuilt motorhome. But I would not consider it as it has a SprintShift gearbox. Such a shame because when it was specified it would have only been around €400 more to have a 5G-Tronic Mercedes Automatic instead.

 

[BillandHelen]

Robert, we have ordered our new Ih with the 2.3l 180 engine and comfortmatic, haven't had the chance to drive it yet as it's currently with Mick at SAP getting air and levellers fitted. Our thinking was the extra power and torque would make for more relaxing progress when laden, we have a 4250kg chassis.

Our previous van with 3 litre and comfortmatic is an absolute joy to drive. Good luck with your deliberations!!

Bill

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[ABZSteve]

Over 75% so far have opted for automatics, which speaks volumes for their popularity on MHFun

It would be interesting to see if general motorhome sales figures per year could be broken down in to the two camps.

You would be surprised at the amount of folks who will spend £40K plus on a new MoHo but "can't justify the additional expense" for an Auto Box even though they would love one. Mad I tell you, all mad

 

[DBK]

The 150hp is a good compromise (about €1600) that is what we have at the moment, the new Euro 6 one has more torque and at lower revs, 380nm for the 150 compared to 400nm for the 180.

View attachment 147857 View attachment 147858


If you look on Mobile.de majority of the new stock A Class vans at German dealers appear to be auto.

Interesting graphs. Though the peak torque figures are very similar there is a huge difference in the spread. With the 180 it is flat between 1500 to 3000 rpm but with the 150 euro 6 the torque drops off steeply after about 2200 rpm. In theory this suggests the smaller engine will be changing gears a lot more often.
However, both engines seem very different to the 3.0l version. Ours rarely goes above 2500 rpm and we see 3000 only when descending steep hills using engine braking, at which point ear defenders are needed.

 

[funflair]

I was also wondering whether its worth spending £3,000 to upgrade from a 130bhp to a 180bhp engine.
Seems a lot of money for the same size engine.

Thoughts anyone ?

Robert

You want 3 litre 205BHP RWD with 8 speed torque converter auto and diff lock, then all the other toys as well

Martin

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[ABZSteve]

Auto for me. Been driving Autos for over 15 years and bought our van new in 2015 with the Comfortmatic Box and 150BHP. I love it and have never had a problem pulling away from anywhere; it's not a sports car so pulling out in front of another vehicle hoping for a quick getaway is not on the cards; take it easy and it is fine. I have gone up over the Lecht, over many hills and down dales in Yorkshire and never missed a beat but be prepared to use the manual gear change on steeper inclines, up and down and I am sure many have probably used their MoHo on steeper mountain climbs. Cruise control is a dream, can all but go and make a cup of tea when switched on . I don't have anything to gauge the MPG but averaging 26mph over 8,000 miles (computer).

Good Luck

 

[ABZSteve]

I was also wondering whether its worth spending £3,000 to upgrade from a 130bhp to a 180bhp engine.
Seems a lot of money for the same size engine.

Thoughts anyone ?

Salesman told me not to bother on mine when I considered the 130bhp to 180bhp upgrade but we only have a 6.5m van so settled on 150bhp which is perfect.

 

[CWH]

Over 75% so far have opted for automatics, which speaks volumes for their popularity on MHFun
It would be interesting to see if general motorhome sales figures per year could be broken down in to the two camps.

From what I have seen there seem to be more manuals than autos about on the dealers' forecourts, which is the same with cars in the UK. It may just be that us oldies on this site prefer autos more that the younger generation.

I don't think those figures would reflects what people want to buy.
When we were searching for our first moho (3 years ago) SO MANY dealers told us that autos were rare as hens' teeth, can't get them, no resale market etc. We stuck it out & got an auto (Comfortmatic). Perfect.
Getting my new one this year, I've had to order specially (& therefore pay extra) because the converter doesn't have a contract with Fiat who are the only ones doing auto in the chassis type I want. (If that doesn't make sense, it's because I don't understand mechanics but that's how I understand it.)

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[Emmit]

I was also wondering whether its worth spending £3,000 to upgrade from a 130bhp to a 180bhp engine.
Seems a lot of money for the same size engine.

Thoughts anyone ?

Has anyone looked at what you get for the money?

Have the manufacturers 'beefed up' the suspension, braking system etc. or is it, as I suspect, a cynical sales pitch to steal an extortionate amount of money for what is in effect a very expensive remap.

 

[Lenny HB]

Has anyone looked at what you get for the money?

Have the manufacturers 'beefed up' the suspension, braking system etc. or is it, as I suspect, a cynical sales pitch to steal an extortionate amount of money for what is in effect a very expensive remap.

The 150 & 180 have beefed up brakes on our 150 the brakes are much better than on our previous 130, also with the Maxi chassis they are even better as they are designed for use up to 5.5t.
As for the suspension that is usally down to the converter, most Hymers come with Goldschmitt front springs anyway.

 

[Robert Clark]

most Hymers come with Goldsmitt front springs anyway.

Or for a few extra quid you can have this

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[Lenny HB]

Here is a comparison of the 150hp Euro 5 & Euro 6. The torque falls off more rapidly on the Euro 6 but it is still higher than the Euro 5 up to 2700rpm and being much stronger at lower revs I would have thought it is more than adequate for normal driving.

No doubting the 180 is better but we don't tend to drive Motorhomes like boy racers, I used to but clearing up the mess after fridge flys open on roundabout didn't make the boss too happy.
I think the price versus performance penalty is too much, with the older 3Lt it made it more interesting especially as you got a chain instead of a cam belt.

 

[Robert Clark]

Here is a comparison of the 150hp Euro 5 & Euro 6. The torque falls off more rapidly on the Euro 6 but it is still higher than the Euro 5 up to 2700rpm and being much stronger at lower revs I would have thought it is more than adequate for normal driving.

View attachment 147861

No doubting the 180 is better but we don't tend to drive like boy racers, I used to but clearing up the mess after fridge flys open on roundabout didn't make the boss too happy.
I think the price versus performance penalty is too much, with the older 3Lt it made it more interesting especially as you got a chain instead of a cam belt.

How about on a 4.8 ton van
Would the 180hp pull better?

 

[Lenny HB]

Or for a few extra quid you can have this

Don't you mean a few thousand.

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[Robert Clark]

Don't you mean a few thousand.

Free if you use the money you save by buying your van from Europe

 

[Lenny HB]

How about on a 4.8 ton van
Would the 180hp pull better?

Probably our new van is on a 4.5t chassis, been happy with the 150 on our current van (3850kg), decided to stick with the 150 on the new van as torque is a bit better and our running weight will probably be less 300kg more than the current van. If cost was no object we would have gone for the 180 but we didn't want to spend more than 20k changing vans.

 

[Lenny HB]

Free if you use the money you save by buying your van from Europe

But I can't afford UK prices, wouldn't have been running Hymer's if it wasn't for the low buy price in Europe.

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[Lenny HB]

I see the pole is now running 3 to 1 in favor of autos.

 

[EuroTrotters]

For those who are considering.

There are some New offerings due soon. There will be some good offers going for converters on the 7G-Tronic Mercedes Sprinter as it replacement draws near.

Then there will be the new

Mercedes Sprinter with updated Toque Converter Gearbox and Engines
VW Crafter with 8 Speed DSG gearbox (the new Crafter is built in the new VW factory and not by Mercedes)
There is an updated gearbox due from Fiat too! Probably LHD first.

 

[Lenny HB]

I watched the showroom manager attempt to reverse a Large Frankia comformatic back up on ramps and it was a far more jerky manoeuvre than when he attempted the same with a torque converter Auto.

With both modern Fords & Fiats having higher a reverse gears than first it is not recommend to reverse onto ramps even with a manual box. A Motorhome dealer should know better but it was a salesman and they never know anything about the product they are selling.

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[mikebeaches]

I was also wondering whether its worth spending £3,000 to upgrade from a 130bhp to a 180bhp engine.
Seems a lot of money for the same size engine.

Thoughts anyone ?

I can't give you an objective reply, but just to say our Comfortmatic has the standard 130 hp engine and the mgw is 3,500kg - works perfectly OK for us, though obviously doesn't have sports car performance.

 

[jdk62]

I have driven automatic cars for the past 18 years and love them.

I have driven 7.5ton horse lorries manually and appreciate the breaking efficiency with the manual box

I much prefer a manual in a 4.5ton Motorhome. Better breaking and speed control downhill, no issues with cruise control messing around.

But at the end of the day - everybody has a choice/preference

 

[peterc10]

I have driven automatic cars for the past 18 years and love them.

I have driven 7.5ton horse lorries manually and appreciate the breaking efficiency with the manual box

I much prefer a manual in a 4.5ton Motorhome. Better breaking and speed control downhill, no issues with cruise control messing around.

But at the end of the day - everybody has a choice/preference

The advantage with the comformatic is that you can have it both ways. You can have it in manual or automatic mode. In manual you decide to when to change and the gearbox does it electronically without the need of a clutch pedal.

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[Doctor Dave]

My Iveco Daily based motorhome has a 2.3 engine and (semi)automatic 6 speed gear box. No mention of comfortmatic (is that a Fiat brand?) but I suspect it is either the same or very similar. Plenty of power and the aftermarket cruise control works perfectly with no problems. The later was fitted by MotorMods in Gloucestershire.

Dave

 

[TheDogMan]

You want 3 litre 205BHP RWD with 8 speed torque converter auto and diff lock, then all the other toys as well

I have a iveco Agile box which is the semi auto and I wish I had found my spec van as a manual like yours Martin, my dream would be what you are quoting except the new 8 speed ZF in the Iveco chassis is 210 bhp, mine is 176bhp in a 7 tonner if I had mine chipped it would trash the gearbox.

 

[Kingham]

You would be surprised at the amount of folks who will spend £40K plus on a new MoHo but "can't justify the additional expense" for an Auto Box even though they would love one. Mad I tell you, all mad

I'm sure you're correct, but as usual I'm the odd one out.

On paper, I had convinced myself that the Comfortmatic was for me and the cost against a new van didn't enter the equation. It was the test drive that got me.

I have no plans to change my van for a long time, but if a proper automatic came out, on my layout of van, I'd be first in the queue.

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[Melvin]

I drove buses and coaches of various sizes before I retired and all were auto boxes. I much prefer them to manual ,having said that my MH is manual only because I didn't have the option with the hab layout that I wanted.

 

[Clarky]

Our Carthago, virtually identical to yours Robert, has 150bhp and Comformatic. We are plated at 4500kg.

It was my first van with the auto box and there is no way I would go back to manual.
In two years and 22k miles I've yet to use the manual setting as the auto system works so well.
About the only time I need to override it is on long uphill drags on a motorway when in cruise control and it is reluctant to drop down a cog from 6th gear when the engine starts to labour a bit. Just give the stick a quick shove forward and it is immediately in 5th gear and running sweetly.
Going downhill it will drop down to a lower gear as you brake and hold that gear until you hit the throttle. Never seem to need to intervene, even going down the steep hills into Millau.

Richard.

 

[TheCaller]

On another matter with regards to cruise control, I do find that when going up hill in 6th gear and cruise on it slows down, and if the hill is too steep for 6th it just drops out of cruise control rather than change down. It seems it does not want to change gear automatically when in cruise. That is different to all the previous auto cars I have had, which have include torque converters, robotised gear changes and CVT.

Does anybody else with the comformatic have this problem or has mine got a bug?

That does sound like a bug. I'm sure mine just changes down. With 150bhp & only 3.5T it doesn't often happen that I have cruise control on in a situation where it might need to change down - it would need to be quite a steep hill. I don't ever remember cruise control dropping out though.

I much prefer a manual in a 4.5ton Motorhome. Better breaking and speed control downhill, no issues with cruise control messing around.

The Comfortmatic has pretty good downhill engine braking even when in auto mode - probably better than an average driver coming from a car driving background would do with a manual box. I was impressed with its capabilities at this - much better than old-style conventional auto boxes, which had negligible engine braking. Current torque converter autos with up-to-date software control may also be much better, but I haven't any personal experience of them.

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