Advice required quick please. (1 Viewer)

[PORKSTER]

My van Renault Burstner t821 tag axle 06 year. Has failed not on hand brake inefficient.
I have taken it to garage they tried adjust but it wasn't enuff. They now think new calipers will do it. But I am thinking the cables are possibly stretched to limit. With 4 calipers and few hours labour its pretty pricey if it didn't do the trick. I guees the cables won't be cheap either assume they would be Alko.
I have said if they 100% sure cables OK go ahead but I'm a bit jittery tbh.
Any opinions please ?

 

[PhilandMena]

My opinion is go with the people who have examined the fault found during the MOT and recommended the fix. It is what it is !

If the calipers were not worn there would be no point in changing them. If after changing them the fix does not work challenge the need for the calipers being changed. Unless of course they have said the calipers do need changing anyway and the cable's may have to be changed too afterwards if they have been stretched too much. I could understand them taking this approach. Not much point in just changing the cables if the calipers are badly worn as you would soon end up with another failed MOT.

 

[DavidG58]

Sorry Paul, agree with above, suck it in and pay it out

could be worse you could own my Mercedes Hymer , £500 for a rear brake service

but worse backed into a tree at dealers, got away with no damage but talked myself into a new all round camera £2000

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[PORKSTER]

I had brakes done last year this looking at £700 + and the vat on top.

What's to wear on calipers as they work the brakes OK just not the hand brake which is a lever on a worm gear I believe.

 

[Boringfrog]

Cannot need all 4 calipers, only reason you replace is if they're seized or leaking.

 

[chaser]

I had brakes done last year this looking at £700 + and the vat on top.

What's to wear on calipers as they work the brakes OK just not the hand brake which is a lever on a worm gear I believe.

Now don't take this the wrong way, but if you know what's up with them and you know how they work , why not do it yourself ?

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[buttons]

My van Renault Burstner t821 tag axle 06 year. Has failed not on hand brake inefficient.
I have taken it to garage they tried adjust but it wasn't enuff. They now think new calipers will do it. But I am thinking the cables are possibly stretched to limit. With 4 calipers and few hours labour its pretty pricey if it didn't do the trick. I guees the cables won't be cheap either assume they would be Alko.
I have said if they 100% sure cables OK go ahead but I'm a bit jittery tbh.
Any opinions please ?

I must be out of touch, why do all 4 calipers need changing. in the old days it was the rear breaks that operated the hand brake. Calipers tend to leak if they have a problem.
Would someone please explain and bring me up to date. Discs ware but not calipers surely.

 

[knokinonabit]

Our Comanche on an AlKo chassis suffers from poor handbrake efficiency and has done from new.
When it goes in for a service I always ask for it to be adjusted and it is fine for the first few times, then loses bite again.
If I put it on the levelling ramps I nearly have to pull the handbrake lever out of it's mountings to get it to hold.
Even then I leave it in gear to be safe(er).
So far it has always passed the MOT, the most recent being the 11th of this month.

It might just be an AlKo thing.

 

[DavidG58]

I had brakes done last year this looking at £700 + and the vat on top.

Ouch, ignore my advice, wait for technical input

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[Lofty1]

The handbrake side of the callipers do have a habit of seizing on this model they can be freed up but will cost as much in labour as replacements, one-bay at about £100 each (you need two only one axle brakes)

 

[PORKSTER]

The handbrake side of the callipers do have a habit of seizing on this model they can be freed up but will cost as much in labour as replacements, one-bay at about £100 each (you need two only one axle brakes)

Nope all 4 brake

 

[Cavs]

My van Renault Burstner t821 tag axle 06 year. Has failed not on hand brake inefficient.
I have taken it to garage they tried adjust but it wasn't enuff. They now think new calipers will do it. But I am thinking the cables are possibly stretched to limit. With 4 calipers and few hours labour its pretty pricey if it didn't do the trick. I guees the cables won't be cheap either assume they would be Alko.
I have said if they 100% sure cables OK go ahead but I'm a bit jittery tbh.
Any opinions please ?

How heavy was the van when you had it tested? If it was loaded, I'd try it again with the van as light as possible. The braking effect will be the same but the percentage efficiency will be higher with less weight on the rear axles. Alko parking brakes are know to be iffy, so I always take mine for MOT as light as possible.

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[PORKSTER]

How heavy was the van when you had it tested? If it was loaded, I'd try it again with the van as light as possible. The braking effect will be the same but the percentage efficiency will be higher with less weight on the rear axles. Alko parking brakes are know to be iffy, so I always take mine for MOT as light as possible.

To be fair the last Mots he has said its just scrapped through so was expecting the worse. Test station dosnt do work so my local place replaced brake pads all round this did improve brake a little. This test the brake was down to 8% they adjusted them to 11% but you need 16% for a pass. For the retest I will unload garage. If I had the time to mess around I still would have taken a punt on cables. Not sure if they would be an Alko part or Renault.

 

[PORKSTER]

Now don't take this the wrong way, but if you know what's up with them and you know how they work , why not do it yourself ?

Time firstly and I havnt got a ramp or pit to my disposal

 

[chaser]

Time firstly and I havnt got a ramp or pit to my disposal

Pity you aren't a bit closer, we have both here, same for anyone if you want a shed to do things in , give us a shout.

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[PORKSTER]

Pity you aren't a bit closer, we have both here, same for anyone if you want a shed to do things in , give us a shout.

suitable for 8.2 metres and 5ton ? I would love a good look underneath my van

 

[chaser]

suitable for 8.2 metres and 5ton ? I would love a good look underneath my van

We have a pit for that size but it would want a good cleaning out first, not the pit the area around it

 

[PORKSTER]

Now saying should really change disc and pads also
Call me stupid bit if the brakes are working OK but the handbrake isn't then its the handbrake operation PUZZLED

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[Dazzles]

I wouldn't go getting new calipers, they're the last thing to go and certainly not 4 of them.

I'd definitely take it elsewhere, sounds like you're being ripped off.

 

[PhilandMena]

Now saying should really change disc and pads also
Call me stupid bit if the brakes are working OK but the handbrake isn't then its the handbrake operation PUZZLED

This does sound odd. Suggest you take it to another garage and just tell them it's failed the MOT on the handbrake and see what they say. Don't give any clue as to what previous garage said.

 

[PORKSTER]

Brakes are stripped already going to have to go with what they say

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[PORKSTER]

So they replaced the worse calipers and pads and discs not good enuff. So now replacing all of them they will get back to me later.
I'm betting they going to struggle and its possibly the cables. So looks like we could have a bit of a problem.
So hope I am wrong because mood I am in its not looking good for anyone.

 

[DavidG58]

feel for you Paul

my cynical side says, what if they do find they were wrong, change the cable anyway which solves the fault, but they just tell you they changed it 'to be safe' while they were working there

main thing is to get is drivable, although I guess it was when you drove it in there!!

hope it has a simple and satisfactory outcome

I will be ready with a drink to Chinese at 18:00 if you can wait that long

 

[Silver-Fox]

So they replaced the worse calipers and pads and discs not good enuff. So now replacing all of them they will get back to me later.
I'm betting they going to struggle and its possibly the cables. So looks like we could have a bit of a problem.
So hope I am wrong because mood I am in its not looking good for anyone.

If your getting sufficient breaking on the foot brake it can only be seized cable or the arm seized on the calliper. Can't see how changing the disc would help if it passes on foot brake.

Look forward to the outcome on this one

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[Littlewheels]

Our Comanche on an AlKo chassis suffers from poor handbrake efficiency and has done from new.
When it goes in for a service I always ask for it to be adjusted and it is fine for the first few times, then loses bite again.
If I put it on the levelling ramps I nearly have to pull the handbrake lever out of it's mountings to get it to hold.
Even then I leave it in gear to be safe(er).
So far it has always passed the MOT, the most recent being the 11th of this month.

It might just be an AlKo thing.

This is a problem ignored by many!! "Levelers "when you apply Automatic Levellers they put a mighty stretch on the Handbrake Cable which could be the reason the OP has such a problem,
Ideally on Level Ground or with the Wheels Chocked release the Handbrake and then apply the Leveling System, this. Will keep the functionality of the Handbrake as it should be.
Brian.

 

[knokinonabit]

This is a problem ignored by many!! "Levelers "when you apply Automatic Levellers they put a mighty stretch on the Handbrake Cable which could be the reason the OP has such a problem,
Ideally on Level Ground or with the Wheels Chocked release the Handbrake and then apply the Leveling System, this. Will keep the functionality of the Handbrake as it should be.
Brian.

I think you may have misread my post.
I use levelling ramps, not levellers, so have to apply the handbrake when it is on the ramps, otherwise it is suddenly not on the ramps


.

 

[Deneb]

The type of calipers pictured in the post above, with a cable operated handbrake linkage, can be prone to seizure on the handbrake side of the system. This does not affect the service brake, because on that side of the system the caliper piston is operated hydraulically, whereas the handbrake linkage is completely mechanical. The handbrake operating lever is prone to seizure through crud thrown up by the wheels, and possibly more likely on a motorhome, by lack of use.

My previous car, which had a similar system, needed its rear calipers replaced twice during the first 10 years of its life, when I was using it daily. When my work location changed circumstances meant that the car often only got driven to the office on a Monday and home on a Friday, being parked up all week in between. I had to replace the calipers every 12-18 months then. Once the mechanism started sticking, even dismantling and freeing it off would only last a couple of months at most.

It is usually easy to check if the handbrake linkage is at fault, by disconnecting the cables and checking the range of movement and free return of the caliper levers. Partial seizure of the linkage may also result in excess travel at the handbrake lever, which can lead to the impression that the cables have stretched.

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[Spanner]

This does sound odd. Suggest you take it to another garage and just tell them it's failed the MOT on the handbrake and see what they say. Don't give any clue as to what previous garage said.

The above suggestion is very good advice, have a second opinion, by the way steel cables don't stretch like elastic but they can seize.
The inner face of a disc is usually in worse condition than outer face, if this is the case hydraulic pressure from the footbrake can still give a good reading on the brake tester but the handbrake is only relying on manual pressure via the cable and may often struggle to apply enough pressure unless everything else is in good working order.
Very often the remedy is to remove the pads, clean and lubricate the caliper sliders etc and reassemble, you may not need any new parts at all just attention from an independent workshop you can trust.

Good luck

 

[PORKSTER]

Well I have picked it up they replaced 3 calipers all discs and all pads they have just about got the handbrake to a pass level. They say so thats far from perfect dont you think ? they have supplied me with the test roller results and said somthing about another test wasnt good enuff Baffling me with B/s I think. They did say They tried to ring my tester and explain to him but there notes will explain.

So will it pass tommorow fingers crossed its enuff but I would think for what they done and how much its cost they would have got it better. Now while paying I asked for the old parts someone got the discs out skip yes they had some rust and pitting but in my opion they was fine but I am no expert. They had already told me the pads where as new but you dont have new discs and not pads fair enuff. Now this the good bit cant show you calipers they have been sent back as cores mmmmmmmmmm doubtful. Total for this was £770 and a few bob.

Drove van home its not far from garage all appears ok apert from fitlthy floor mat and step handbrake feels better but not great never has. Its one on those handbrakes that drop down after you pull it well that feels strange now I cant offer an explanation but its different lock van up and there is a scuff on front wheel as if its been kerbed not a massive scuff but I noticed it and a mark on tyre. wasnt there before as I had washed it before taking it to them.

I was kinda hoping someone in the game would see this and comment is it @Geo and @dave newell lvs who are resident experts?

Anyhow I have it of my chest for now thanks for Listening Paul

 

[dave newell]

It's not possible ( or fair to expect) for us to comment on a vehicle we haven't even seen. Discs may look ok but be close to, or even below minimum thickness, this can only be established once the wheels are off. As it happens I had a not dissimilar issue today with my mate's motorhome as it failed on rear service brake performance. Stripped the rear down and as it's only done 10k miles discs were good but glazed. Deglazed them with a flap wheel on the lathe, fitted new pads, cleaned caliper slides, deglazed handbrake shoes and drum, adjusted everything properly and it still failed except this time the handbrake was down as well. Time for the Italian tune up! 4 mile road test with a lot of left foot braking then a quarter mile at 10 mph repeatedly applying the handbrake. Took it back and handbrake now produces full lockout chucking a 3600 kg motorhome out of the rollers, footbrake on the rear went from 28% to 47%. I believe that most mechanical issues with motorhomes are caused by two main factors: not enough use and when they are used we drive them too gently.

D.

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