A bit more about wild camping in Portugal

[Sundowners]

For those that might be interested in coming to Portugal.

 

[68c]

He comes across as a pleasant and reasonable young man. I envy him his youth. He acknowledges it is badly behaved vanlifers and other sections of society who have bought this about.

 

[EuroTrotters]

He comes across as a pleasant and reasonable young man. I envy him his youth. He acknowledges it is badly behaved vanlifers and other sections of society who have bought this about.

Yes, could not agree more.

I see more everyday drivers, walkers, dog walkers littering more.

 

[Gaston aires]

The few spoil it for the many as usual.
Shame, I love Portugal but it’s still ok to park on aires, isn’t it ?
Phil

 

[laurieash]

See it myself the great unwashed just walking into the woods with toilet paper.
Next to footpaths not buried.
In national parks.
A few spoil it for the many.

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[Sundowners]

The few spoil it for the many as usual.
Shame, I love Portugal but it’s still ok to park on aires, isn’t it ?
Phil

Yes, you can park in motorhome designated areas. The aire local to us is closed due to Covid, assume it’s the same all over. Can’t wait for the lockdown to cease so that we can go out in our new to us motorhome we purchased last October.

 

[Gaston aires]

Yes, you can park in motorhome designated areas. The aire local to us is closed due to Covid, assume it’s the same all over. Can’t wait for the lockdown to cease so that we can go out in our new to us motorhome we purchased last October.

Thanks. We are still in Suffolk, the weather is improving and we have booked lots of travel from May. All U.K. based so far but can’t wait to go abroad again.
Phil

 

[Sundowners]

And a bit more info. I have found re: visa extension for Portugal should you want to stay for more than 90 days.

 

[nicholsong]

And a bit more info. I have found re: visa extension for Portugal should you want to stay for more than 90 days.
View attachment 466955

The e-mail you quote was truncated part way through.

Could you please repeat it as it seems very interesting.

It could be useful for those flying in/out, but if you get an extension beyond 90 days when in a MH how could you get out of Schengen, there being no ferries from Portugal, so exiting from another country, without being stopped for overstaying 90 days in Schengen?

Unless other EU countries are willing to not count the extension in your Schengen stay total. But will they?

Geoff

 

[Sundowners]

The e-mail you quote was truncated part way through.

Could you please repeat it as it seems very interesting.

It could be useful for those flying in/out, but if you get an extension beyond 90 days when in a MH how could you get out of Schengen, there being no ferries from Portugal, so exiting from another country, without being stopped for overstaying 90 days in Schengen?

Unless other EU countries are willing to not count the extension in your Schengen stay total. But will they?

Geoff

Heres the rest of it. Good thinking about the time in Schengen. Sure someone will try to find a way around it.

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[Solwaybuggier]

The e-mail you quote was truncated part way through.

Could you please repeat it as it seems very interesting.

It could be useful for those flying in/out, but if you get an extension beyond 90 days when in a MH how could you get out of Schengen, there being no ferries from Portugal, so exiting from another country, without being stopped for overstaying 90 days in Schengen?

Unless other EU countries are willing to not count the extension in your Schengen stay total. But will they?

Geoff

It might be interesting if Spain followed in Portugal's footsteps - ferries from Santander and Bilbao. And presumably, from the UK, you could travel down through France and return on the long ferry. Maybe one to keep an eye on?

 

[emjaiuk]

This is probably an over simplification.

1. 90/180 Schengen Zone Rule

2. Individual EU countries allowed to grant/negotiate changes to 90/180

3. If a tourist is within an individual country as permitted by their visa extension, then in theory they may be outside the scope of the Schengen agreement. Therefore their stay in the visa extension country may count as outside Schengen as far as 90/180 is concerned.
You never know, it'll at last keep the lawyers busy

 

[nicholsong]

This is probably an over simplification.

1. 90/180 Schengen Zone Rule

2. Individual EU countries allowed to grant/negotiate changes to 90/180

3. If a tourist is within an individual country as permitted by their visa extension, then in theory they may be outside the scope of the Schengen agreement. Therefore their stay in the visa extension country may count as outside Schengen as far as 90/180 is concerned.
You never know, it'll at last keep the lawyers busy

In response to that and to Sundowners, I would think that regardless of a visa, either stamped in the passport or on a sticker as the Portugese reply says, as far as any other Schengen country is concerned, if you had a stamp in your passport at time of entering the Schengen country granting the visa, then for the other Schengen countries they would treat that stamp date as the day the 90 days starts running.

A parallel is the case of the landlocked countries surrounded by Schengen countries, but which are themselves not Schengen, e.g Switzerland and Andorra. Time in them is, as far as Schengen is concerned, is counted as 'within Schengen and therefore subject to the 90 day limit.

If time in a country granting a visa were exempt from the 90 day rule then the likes of Swtzerland and Andorra would want to be treated the same, so as to attract more visitors for longer stays.

I can see these visa extensions being useful to people who have direct access in and out of the visa extension country and want to stay in that country for the period granted, e.g. those having a house in Portugal entering by air, and those entering France from UK by either ferry or air.

However at the moment I cannot see it being much use to anyone who has to enter or exit Schengen via a country other than the visa country, because the Schengen entry/exit country will apply the 90 day rule.

Of course as lots have said anyone resident inside Schengen, even if still limited by their residence permit to 90 days in the rest of Schengen, crosses Schengen internal borders they may well get away with exceeding 90 days,but then why would those people need a visa? They would be, once across the internal borders, more like a national of a Schengen country exceeding the 90 day restriction in any one other Schengen country, and as far as we know they never seem to get challenged on that.

Of course all of this might change with internal pressures within Schengen/EU but at the moment I cannot see these visas being much use to any of the MH community, except if they want to tour for more than 90 days only in the country of arrival, e.g. many may accept that limitation for e.g. France.

Just my thoughts so far, but I shall be watching for developments.

Geoff

 

[Crazylegs]

Drive to Portugal, apply for visa extension, on day 89 take a Ryanair £20 flight back to the U.K. Get passport stamped and return to Portugal, worth a try ?

 

[bobandjanie]

<Broken link removed>

It's nice to feel wanted.

And another unhappy one in Spain.

I wonder how long before motorhomes will be replaced with an old builders van park anywhere, we saw one the other day it was even sign written. Bob.

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[gpat]

Do you think they will be more tolerant of posh motorhomes that , in their view, are clearly just overnighting and spending money in the local towns. Does the group think that their targets are what they consider to be the freeloaders that set up camp in their communities, contribute nothing and leave a mess that they have to clean up.

In my view, the trouble is they just look at the vehicle and make a decision based on what they see. So if you have an older, more interesting van you are more likely to get picked on and fined maybe?

 

[1910Manny]

See it myself the great unwashed just walking into the woods with toilet paper.
Next to footpaths not buried.
In national parks.
A few spoil it for the many.

Having returned to the UK after living 15 years in the Western Algarve within the Costa Vincentina National Park at last a law to stop this. During the last five years, it became awful with van lifers poo, rubbish, free running barking dogs on the cliffs, in the roads and anywhere where they could obtain a freebe. Most were not Portuguese. Some tried to set up plugging their electrical cables into empty properties with outside electrics. The GNR told my husband (who is Portuguese) on numerous occasions that their hands were tied. Now, at least, the GNR can fine and move those on. Portugal was becoming quite scruffy.

 

[1910Manny]

Do you think they will be more tolerant of posh motorhomes that , in their view, are clearly just overnighting and spending money in the local towns. Does the group think that their targets are what they consider to be the freeloaders that set up camp in their communities, contribute nothing and leave a mess that they have to clean up.

In my view, the trouble is they just look at the vehicle and make a decision based on what they see. So if you have an older, more interesting van you are more likely to get picked on and fined maybe?

Unfortunately, no I don’t. The issue here is where do you empty your grey waste and toilet.....eventually? Portugal does not have the infastructure of French camping if they did, it would be much better.

 

[emjaiuk]

We've only been to Portugal once so far. We stayed in a beach car park near I think Maceda. A few other campers, but not crowded. Maybe we were lucky, but we found a full service point at a nearby carwash which we visted a couple of times.

 

[busby]

Drive to Portugal, apply for visa extension, on day 89 take a Ryanair £20 flight back to the U.K. Get passport stamped and return to Portugal, worth a try ?

You won't get me on a plane until Covid has disappeared completely ,,BUSBY.

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[Midnightflyer]

It's about time too. We regally visit a site in Southern Spain and then on to Lagos Portugal. Near the site in Spain there is a beautiful small beach side village which has a car park behind the sea wall, this is blighted by EXPENSIVE large motor home who can afford the Gin Palace they live in but it seems that all they want to do is Freeload in the car park and yes when they leave many of them don't clear up after. There seems also to be some sort of competition between them as I've overheard them bragging as to how little they have spent on overnight parking during their travels. Seems that there an awful lot of Two & Sixpenny Millionaires' out there. I hope the Police in Spain and Portugal fine them heavy.

 

[Free Wheelie]

Unfortunately, no I don’t. The issue here is where do you empty your grey waste and toilet.....eventually? Portugal does not have the infastructure of French camping if they did, it would be much better.

We spent 9 months over 2 winters mainly wild camping across Portugal. We never had problems with responsibly disposing of grey water and toilet contents. Get a copy of of a directory of Aires eg. Camperstop be frugal and you'll only need to visit one every 4 days or so to dispose and fill up. Job done...

 

[spikehcm681]

Lagos looks to banish illegal and wild motorhome practices​

15 April 2021

The Municipality of Lagos has approved the final proposal for the “Study of Planning for the Practice of Self-Caravanning in the Municipality of Lagos”, which will enable the municipality to manage this tourist activity efficiently, namely with regard the installation of new infrastructures and facilities for caravanners, whether public or private.
"The document is the culmination of a work that began with a survey, characterisation and diagnosis and, in a second phase, the identification of the territorial potential for the practice of motorhoming, which takes into account the need to safeguard of patrimonial, natural and landscape values, the sustainable use of resources, as well as the perspectives and interests of social and economic development of the municipality ".
The study predicts that "the potential for caravanning (caravans and motorhomes) in Portugal will increase by 50% in the next ten years.
The proposal has involved assessing the areas with the greatest potential for the location of Camping and Caravan Parks (PCC) and Motorhome Service Areas (ASA), classifying them in four classes: Priority, Opportunity, Negotiable and Critical.
Regarding the types of facilities to be created, with regard to the Camping and Caravan Parks, these may be related to the themes “Sun and Sea”, “Eco resorts” and “Rural Camping Parks”, aiming to allow the combination of caravanning with other activities in rural environment, such as agribusiness, wine tourism, fishing, hiking, cycling, etc.
Motorhome Service Areas may be themed as “Urban”, “Cultural and natural heritage”, and “Rural”, depending on their location. There will be defined “Parking Spaces”, commercial areas, fuel pumps /service stations and picnic parks on site.
Combating the illegal and wild practices of caravanning and motorhoming, minimising its harmful effects, and maximising the advantages and benefits that it can generate by the strengthening of local and regional tourism, are the main objectives of this study, which intends to focus on Lagos as one of the most sustainable and inclusive tourist destinations.
The strategy also recommends the modernisation and qualification of the existing facilities and the definition of minimum requirements and services provided at these PCC's and ASA's.
Original article available in Portuguese at http://postal.pt/