2 days on our 4 months tour and already a costly problem

[Maria41]

Hello everyone!
We had a Citroen Relay converted recently by a company in Sheffield. We tested it on two long weekends and found all good.
So we left the UK on Friday and we have our first big hurdle!

The 2 leisure batteries were almost drained within less than 24h of arriving at a Campsite. We also have a 100 watt solar panel. The fridge is producing a lot of heat.
After looking at the manual of our electric fridge, it says it needs ventilation. But the company fitting it just boxed it in without any, and the cupboard above the fridge is super hot.

We phoned Convert Your Van, in Sheffield, who said we did not need vents for it.

We phoned the manufacturer of the fridge ( not sure of brand right now but specific to campervans). The manufacturer was adamant we need vents. Hmmm.... not happy about the converting company lying to us and cutting corners. It seems evident that the heat has to get out somehow and no vents will cause problems!

Anyhow, anyone has experience on campervan fridges? Do we need two vents of one is enough? We are near Angers and found a company that may be able to do the job. We will speak to their tech guy this morning, but would be useful to have bit of advice from the community before making any decision.

So advice on fridge and vents welcome. Please
Thank you!

 

[busby]

Hello everyone!
We had a Citroen Relay converted recently by a company in Sheffield. We tested it on two long weekends and found all good.
So we left the UK on Friday and we have our first big hurdle!

The 2 leisure batteries were almost drained within less than 24h of arriving at a Campsite. We also have a 100 watt solar panel. The fridge is producing a lot of heat.
After looking at the manual of our electric fridge, it says it needs ventilation. But the company fitting it just boxed it in without any, and the cupboard above the fridge is super hot.

We phoned Convert Your Van, in Sheffield, who said we did not need vents for it.

We phoned this manufacturer of the fridge ( not sure of brand right now but specific to campervan and boats). The manufacturer was adamant we need vents. Hmmm.... not happy about the converting company lying to us and cutting corners. It seems evident that the heat has to get out somehow and no vents will cause problems!

Anyhow, anyone has experience on campervan fridges? Do we need two vents of one is enough? We are near Angers and found a company that may be able to do the job. We will speak to their tech guy this morning, but would be useful to have bit of advice from the community before making any decision.

So advice on fridge and vents welcome. Please
Thank you!

Presume it's a Compressor fridge and not a 12v/220v/gas one fitted? BUSBY.

 

[Allanm]

Any fridge needs vents. Even your home fridge will need ventilation around it. Your fridge works by removing heat and it has to go somewhere.
and if it’s an electric fridge, it should ( I would think) be powered by the alternator when the engine is running

 

[rosalan]

Vents are essential to most fridges. Perhaps compressor fridges are different but ventilation is part of the process and the heat you are experiencing needs dissipating or the unit becomes a heater.
My van has an additional two fans to help disperse excess heat which would otherwise negate the cooling process in hot climates.
You do need two vents!
It also looks like your batteries are providing the power for the fridge full time and not the alternator or gas.
I hesitate to say the fitters have made a bodge job.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Are you running the fridge on ehu from the campsite or your batteries? If batteries that's the reason they are flat, a 100 watt panel is not enough to recharge the batts if they are powering the fridge.
As said. All fridges need to be ventilated. Usually all mhomes have vents top and bottom, to the outside, but if its an electric fridge only, I assume if it had a top vent and space under the fridge to draw air in then that may suffice but would heat your van up.

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[Maria41]

Hi, thanks for the Input!

Well we spoke to the technician in a big motorhome shop.
Apparently, vents are not essential for small campervans on that fridge, but he suggested to fit two vents through the cupboards, above the fridge.
Also the reason our batteries are flat is because they are acid low quality ones. He suggested to fit gel batteries and we will do that. The solar regulator is low quality and again he said we needed to upgrade to a better one.
So the husband will change the batteries and regulator tomorrow and we will get the tech to drill some vents next week ( not available before that).
He seems to think that gel batteries should allow us to be off grid for up to a week. Hmmm.... We shall see. We will spend a week in noirmoutier island and test the new batteries.

I am still not 100% convinced we do it need external vents ( as all of you guys said too, hot air needs to go somewhere ) but if we can keep going until we are back in the UK in January, it would be nice.

 

[andy63]

I don't think you are getting sound advice from that dealer..
Your fridge needs an air flow across the back of it.. most have a small fan ..
Doesn't have to be external but there should be scope for the air to circulate..

And fitting gel batteries wont solve a problem of the batteries not coping..
Nothing wrong with lead acid wet cell batteries is they are kept topped up and have a suitable charging regimen..
Andy

 

[Vic. Parsons.]

If it's vented internally through the cupboards, then you'll have a new habitation heating system too...maybe not a great idea if you're going somewhere hot....

 

[34127]

There has been several discussions on various forums about the need for ventilation and some have gone as far as fitting extra cooing fans.

 

[tick59]

You need to ventilate your fridge or you could DIE from co2 poisoning. This happened to us years ago in an old camper van we bought there were vents outside but the fridge was not connected to the vents. Chris was very sick and almost Died from the experiance the doctor said if she had been a non smoker she would have. I was not affected as i was on the other side of the van away from the fridge. GET THEM VENTS DONE NOW AND MAKE SURE THE FRIDGE IS CONNECTED TO THEM.

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[Figaro]

You need to ventilate your fridge or you could DIE from co2 poisoning.

I don't think the OP fridge is working on gas as it sounds yours was ?

 

[Zains Pops]

All refrigerators work by moving heat from where its not wanted ie. the cold box to where its not an issue ie. the general environment. Without correct ventilation it just cannot work, as the heat can't be dumped externally. The unit will just keep running getting hotter and hotter, burning up the power used to drive it but achieving little.

 

[Stanbrook]

The OP has posted previously they have underslung gas tank so the fridge may be a 3 way.....
The van converters don't appear to have good reviews on google:
"Appalling level of work, overpriced rubbish. We had our van gutted, ply lined & partially converted by this company. We queried that they'd put insulation in the ceiling & were told twice that "yes there's loads up there" You can imagine our surprise upon returning to France & looking at the ceiling we found not one scrap of insulation up there! We were offered that the problem would be rectified if we return 800 miles north! It's important to us that we give a fair review. So... a nice bunch of lads, unfortunately the workmanship is excessively shoddy, the average teenager could do better. We didn't want the ply covered with carpet or vinyl which is maybe why ragged edges & even a broken piece are clearly visible. The work was done quickly, we suspect vans are rushed through to capitalize on the money.... We certainly paid alot - £6500 for exceptionally shoddy work. Probably a nice bunch to have a pint with but please spare your pocket & go elsewhere, total con"

 

[tacr2man]

1st 100w panel isn't going to cope with running compressor fridge over extended period especially this time of year . .
2nd Changing a 110ah wet battery for a 110ah gel battery isn't going to make any difference in real world.
3rd Compressor fridges do need some ventilation flow but a lot less than evaporative. purely from a heat dump pov , gasses are not a factor .
4 Do you have a battery to battery charge system so that the hab batteries get charged by the alternator?
5th Changing the solar controller on a 100w panel will make very little difference

 

[DBK]

Hi, thanks for the Input!

Well we spoke to the technician in a big motorhome shop.
Apparently, vents are not essential for small campervans on that fridge, but he suggested to fit two vents through the cupboards, above the fridge.
Also the reason our batteries are flat is because they are acid low quality ones. He suggested to fit gel batteries and we will do that. The solar regulator is low quality and again he said we needed to upgrade to a better one.
So the husband will change the batteries and regulator tomorrow and we will get the tech to drill some vents next week ( not available before that).
He seems to think that gel batteries should allow us to be off grid for up to a week. Hmmm.... We shall see. We will spend a week in noirmoutier island and test the new batteries.

I am still not 100% convinced we do it need external vents ( as all of you guys said too, hot air needs to go somewhere ) but if we can keep going until we are back in the UK in January, it would be nice.

External vents are not always fitted for compressor fridges but the air should be allowed to circulate around the back of the fridge. It is no different to a domestic installation where a fridge is mounted under a kitchen worktop, they are no vents required into the garden. The downside of not having external vents is the heat comes into the MH which is not nice if it is very hot where you are.

Compressor fridges can cope with high ambient temperatures, over 40°C for example, so the fact it might feel warm above it to your hand shouldn't be a worry. It will still work.

I would put aside the fridge vent issue for the moment, I think it is a red herring. It sounds as if you have an electrical problem and getting to the bottom of why your batteries were flat is the first priority. But as mentioned, 100W isn't really enough to keep a compressor fridge running unless it is summer and very sunny. You will struggle at this time of year, 200W would be better but you can save energy by turning it off at night. It won't warm up much overnight.

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[Deneb]

I would suspect that the installation instructions for the fridge will specify minimum clearances required around the cabinet and minimum size and position of ventilation provision. They are normally available on the manufacturer's website.

Mine certainly does (Isotherm compressor fridge) and ventilation is required, but only into the enclosure where it is installed, not externally.

 

[Northernraider]

You need to ventilate your fridge or you could DIE from co2 poisoning. This happened to us years ago in an old camper van we bought there were vents outside but the fridge was not connected to the vents. Chris was very sick and almost Died from the experiance the doctor said if she had been a non smoker she would have. I was not affected as i was on the other side of the van away from the fridge. GET THEM VENTS DONE NOW AND MAKE SURE THE FRIDGE IS CONNECTED TO THEM.

It isn't a gas fridge , compressor fridges don't emit co2

 

[Campervan_man]

Some van converters eg, Malibu don't have side fridge vents but put a flu in the roof.
Heat rises.

 

[Northernraider]

1st 100w panel isn't going to cope with running compressor fridge over extended period especially this time of year . .
2nd Changing a 110ah wet battery for a 110ah gel battery isn't going to make any difference in real world.
3rd Compressor fridges do need some ventilation flow but a lot less than evaporative. purely from a heat dump pov , gasses are not a factor .
4 Do you have a battery to battery charge system so that the hab batteries get charged by the alternator?
5th Changing the solar controller on a 100w panel will make very little difference

I was about to say much the same

I think the person advising to change batteries and solar controller is out for making a quick buck.
Electric coolboxes and compressor fridges use a lot of electrickery ..
I'd be saving the money from changing batteries for now and perhaps thinking of other fridge options

 

[dotsontour]

I really don’t want to say this . Your being talked into 2 new batteries, having holes drilled into cupboards.
You only left on Friday .So turn around get yourselves back to the converter and get him to put right his work .
It’s not nice to return early but you will not sleep easy the whole trip . This is of course my humble opinion.
In the end only you can make that decision.
Good luck whatever you do and don’t let this experience put you off a great way to travel .

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[eddie]

I hate compressor fridges, as after mains, gas is the best way to run a fridge.

As already stated the heat has to go somewhere so needs a vent to allow the heat out.

However, the fridge should still work

Changing the batteries and the solar regulator will benefit the supplying dealer far more than you.

The same as in some instances, using compressor fridges benefits the converter far more than the customer.

Designed for the marine industry where there is a reluctance, logically to have gas on board they serve a purpose, also as without gas it is Hobson's Choice. But, remember power requirements on boats are different as well. On my last boat we had a compressor fridge/freezer, a compressor freezer and a compressor wine fridge, but the boat had 10 batteries on board and two massive alternators to charge them.

 

[peterc10]

We need to remember that this is almost certainly a compressor fridge, works very differently from 3 way absorption fridges that use gas. I think they are specifically chosen for PVC conversions because they do not need to have a ventilation grill cut through the metal body. Others such as Langtoftlad may be able to add something to that. All of the threads on this forum about fitting fans were for 3 way fridges AFAIK.

As for the batteries I very much doubt that you could survive a week on 2 batteries running a compressor fridge with only 100W of solar

 

[Beltie]

There are no exhaust gases to worry about from an electrically powered compressor fridge, but if there were, it would be CO and not CO2.

 

[Deneb]

We need to remember that this is almost certainly a compressor fridge, works very differently from 3 way absorption fridges that use gas. I think they are specifically chosen for PVC conversions because they do not need to have a ventilation grill cut through the metal body. Others such as Langtoftlad may be able to add something to that. All of the threads on this forum about fitting fans were for 3 way fridges AFAIK.

As for the batteries I very much doubt that you could survive a week on 2 batteries running a compressor fridge with only 100W of solar

3 days was about the most I could eke out off grid with a compressor fridge and 100W solar. They use about 45-55 amps a day if you're really careful. Much better with 200W solar, Votronic MPPT and a B2B charger ?

 

[taffiosi]

Nothing wrong with compressor fridges but you do need a good electrical system. I added two extra cooling fans for my installation with a vent below fridge and also above it to draw air across the compressor as they get hot in warm climes. When in normal climate,UK, I turn of additional fans. As others have said a 100W solar panel is not enough. Your lead acid batteries should be ok with A good multistage charging system. I currently run 4x100W solar through a Ctek 250ds and 25amp Ctek charger when on hookup, charging two 110ah leoch agm batteries.

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[Spriddler]

I think the person advising to change batteries and solar controller is out for making a quick buck.
I'd be saving the money from changing batteries for now and perhaps thinking of other fridge options

I agree entirely and I do hope that Maria41 has noted this and others' very realistic advice and isn't having the gel batteries and upgraded regulator fitted at this moment. She hasn't posted since 11 this morning

 

[SpeedyDux]

The 90L compressor fridge in our PVC uses a vent in the back of the kitchen unit, where it stretches across the sliding door. There is no external fridge vent through the van bodywork. Above the fridge is a wardrobe which is why the vent is to one side. Unless the sliding door is open any heat from the back of the fridge must end up inside the habitation area but I can't say that it makes a noticeable difference to the inside air temperature even on a hot day.

 

[Northernraider]

I agree entirely and I do hope that Maria41 has noted this and others' very realistic advice and isn't having the gel batteries and upgraded regulator fitted at this moment. She hasn't posted since 11 this morning

Yes I worried about that too as she did say her husband would be replacing batteries quick smart.

It won't solve the problem unfortunately but will relieve them of a few hundred quid

 

[yodeli]

Maria41

Je ne peux rien pour toi quant à ton souci de frigo, ceci dit, il m'est agréable de voir que nous avons eu sensiblement les mêmes lectures. j 'ai même fait un mémoire sur Edgar Rice Burroughs complété d'une étude de ses dessins dans ses albums de Tarzan of The Apes.

 

[busby]

You need to ventilate your fridge or you could DIE from co2 poisoning. This happened to us years ago in an old camper van we bought there were vents outside but the fridge was not connected to the vents. Chris was very sick and almost Died from the experiance the doctor said if she had been a non smoker she would have. I was not affected as i was on the other side of the van away from the fridge. GET THEM VENTS DONE NOW AND MAKE SURE THE FRIDGE IS CONNECTED TO THEM.

Not if its a Compressor fridge,,no fumes.Busby.

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