Caravan Club membership and using CLs (1 Viewer)

[scotjimland]

I am a member of the CC, the main reason being to use the extensive network of great CLs..

Is it right that non members use CLs and even advocate doing this ?

I certainly don't think so.. what do the Funsters think ?

 

[Welsh girl]

I have heard of a few non members using the sites as most of the owners don't ask for your membership card, I for one don't like this because what would be the point of paying for membership if anyone can use them, much like this site, you are allowed to read some pages but them are blocked until you pay membership, I think they should all ask for membership cards and applaud the ones that ask for them.

 

[moandick]

I would certainly agree with ScotJim - IF - the Caravan Club paid the CLs for their use whether anybody was on site or not!

As it is, most CLs are in business to earn money - and in order to pay their expenses, Insurances, Rates, Maintenance etc., etc., etc - they need an income to do so.

They are simply not going to prosper if they sit there empty, for whatever reason.

So who can blame them if somebody comes along offering them money to take up an empty pitch.

CC Membership or not - in this day and age - it is survival of the fittest!

Dick

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[DESCO]

Have to agree with moandick on this one

 

[MrJinks]

I think it depends if the CL is very popular and busy. If so, why would the owner want non CC members.
Most CLs, mine included, are only ever full at peak times, and sometimes not then either.

I personally would never take any bookings from non CC members. However, if someone pulls in and asks if they can stay and I have space....where's the problem. It only happens very rarely and is not depriving CC member of pitch.

 

[paulmold]

If a CL owner allows non-members on, then they are going against the planning laws and can lose their CL status, same goes for those that flount the 5-van rule. It is a condition that they ask for proof of membership although I can't remember the last time I was asked for my card.

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[scotjimland]

I can certainly understand why CL owners would be inclined not to bother asking.. as said it is a business, why turn it away .. the chances of being caught out are indeed slim.

but my point is more directed to users.. if they KNOW you are going to use CLs on a fairly regular basis .. why don't they pay for the membership.. ?
I guess the answer is in the question..

 

[yorkshirepudding]

I think a bigger issue is how the CC and C&CC keep increasing membership without providing more piches. I think there should be a fixed ratio between membership numbers and pitches. As previously mentioned CL site owners have a business to run and must make a profit. CC and C&CC should be run for the benefit of their members.

 

[joner8888]

I joined because i seen a ad saying there may be discount for over 55`s.
I have not seen any discounts yet!
I can search through the sites on line, drive in and no one asks for any proof.
Why am i a member?

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[scotjimland]

I joined because i seen a ad saying there may be discount for over 55`s.
I have not seen any discounts yet!
I can search through the sites on line, drive in and no one asks for any proof.
Why am i a member?

I believe the over 55's discount is only for members of the C&CC ?

You can search CC Sites on-line but not CLs .. as many Club sites are open to non members.,.. not so CLs

Only you can decide if membership is worth while and good value for money ..

 

[Welsh girl]

You dont get the discount on Cl's or CS's only get the over 55 discount if you are on a cc &c club site.. you get a midweek discount on a cc club site and that's for anyone and not on every site irrespective of age.

 

[GJH]

The fact that CL owners want to make a profit is irrelevant. It is their choice to apply for CL status as an alternative to obtaining permission for a separately licensed site, nobody forces them to do so. Having made that choice then they should abide by the terms it entails.

As regards site users then nobody should have any expectation of being able to use a CL if they are not CC members. Once again, it is their choice whether or not to join the CC. Why on Earth should they have such an expectation to enjoy any of the benefits of membership if they have chose not to be members?

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[haganap]

In answer to your question in the OP yes they do allow people on who are not members, or should I say some do.

Nikki and I stopped a couple of times up the road from us, I knocked on the door and asked if we could stay to test the van out. They said yes so we did even explaining we were not members.

However,

We liked it so much we actually after a break of about 8 years rejoined the club to use more of them.

 

[scotjimland]

If I turn up at a CL on spec and it is full, I will ask the owner if they are all members.. if the owner doesn't want to say or refuses I will suspect they are not and report the CL to the Club to investigate. .. harsh ?
No.. I am not paying fees to have the facility used by non members.. just like any other club, be it golf, tennis , whatever... if you want to use and enjoy the facilities provided... .. pay the fees.

 

[Reallyretired]

I think CL/CS owners should be allowed to register with more than one club, they could then get more business legitimately and thus be more viable, hence more CL/CS/MFL or whatever. The clubs should then compete on what they can offer their members not expect the CL/CS owners to be boosting their membership.

If someone has room for only around 5 vans they would never make enough to be a 'proper' caravan site.

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[lorger]

We are in the cc and use a few cl's and have never been asked if we are members, maybe there is a rule somewhere that they can take non memebers i dont know the rules but i did assume they where for members only.

Maybe they could charge an extra £1 a night for non members this would then make it benifical to join.

Jim might have read one of your post wrong but as far as im aware you can look up cl's on the internet you just have to log into do it.

 

[scotjimland]

We are in the cc and use a few cl's and have never been asked if we are members, maybe there is a rule somewhere that they can take non memebers i dont know the rules but i did assume they where for members only.

Maybe they could charge an extra £1 a night for non members this would then make it benifical to join.

Jim might have read one of your post wrong but as far as im aware you can look up cl's on the internet you just have to log into do it.

Hi Gerry

The rules are laid down and controlled by (AFAIK) Natural England and fall under the Caravan act ,, 19 summat or other .. not by the club issuing the exemption certificate

Yes, you access CL listings on the website if you log in .. that requires membership.

 

[lorger]

No.. I am not paying fees to have the facility used by non members.. just like any other club, be it golf, tennis , whatever... if you want to use and enjoy the facilities provided... .. pay the fees.

Jim most other clubs like the ones you mention take non members to boost their income, for example i am a member of our local golf club and i pay £460 a year for it but ithe course can be busy with visiting parties who will pay £50 a day and its these visitors that keep our yearly subs down, as i mentioned on my previous post maybe charge non members for the use and this might deter some or they would all join and you would never get on a cl anyway

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[scotjimland]

Jim most other clubs like the ones you mention take non members to boost their income, for example i am a member of our local golf club and i pay £460 a year for it but ithe course can be busy with visiting parties who will pay £50 a day and its these visitors that keep our yearly subs down, as i mentioned on my previous post maybe charge non members for the use and this might deter some or they would all join and you would never get on a cl anyway

think you posted as I was writing.. The Club don't make the rules governing CLs

It's a good idea, but would require a change in the Law ..

 

[olley]

If I turn up at a CL on spec and it is full, I will ask the owner if they are all members.. if the owner doesn't want to say or refuses I will suspect they are not and report the CL to the Club to investigate. .. harsh ?
No.. I am not paying fees to have the facility used by non members.. just like any other club, be it golf, tennis , whatever... if you want to use and enjoy the facilities provided... .. pay the fees.

Suppose he says that they all are, want then? Do you go around knocking on doors and asking? Or do you report that you suspect he's taking all comer's when in fact he may be telling the truth?

Ian

 

[lorger]

Yes Jim i think i must have been, i thought somewhere i had heard it was to do with their planning permission so i assume when they let non members on they are breaking the conditions of them.

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[scotjimland]

Suppose he says that they all are, want then? Do you go around knocking on doors and asking? Or do you report that you suspect he's taking all comer's when in fact he may be telling the truth?

Ian

obviously you have to take the word of the owner.. but you could gauge this by the reaction when asking the question..

I just find it annoying that there are people who want to enjoy the benefits of the Club, but don't want to put their hand in their pockets ..:Angry:

Gerry's suggestion of having a two tier price, same as the Club sites makes good sense, but as already mentioned, would need a change in the law.. and I doubt that will happen.

EDIT

just read Johns post.. apparently not.. the Club makes the rules about who can use..

 

[John & Joan]

Certificated Locations (CLs) are issued with an certificate exempting them from the need to obtain Planning Permission and a Site licence by a club which hold exemption under paragraph 5 of the First Schedule to the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960
The act states that no more than 5 caravans can be used for human habitation on that site at any time.

The rule relating to 28 days or members only are club rules.

Below are the guidance issued to all exempted clubs by DEFRA (Natural England)


For land to be used as a caravan site it must be licensed and planning permission is usually necessary. However, [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Section 2 of and the First Schedule to the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 [/FONT][/FONT]("the 1960 Act") provide exemptions from the need for a site licence or planning permission. Part 5 Class A of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995 ("the 1995 Order") permits the use of land as a touring caravan site where a caravan exemption certificate has been issued.


b)

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Paragraph 5: Sites Approved by Exempted Organisations [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial]

[/FONT]Organisations exempted under paragraph 5 may issue certificates (valid for up to one year) for particular sites, stating that the land has been approved by the organisation for the use of its members for the purposes of recreation. These sites are known as "certificated locations" or "certificated sites". Additionally:

1. No more than 5 caravans can be stationed on a paragraph 5 site at any one time.
2. Before issuing a certificate an exempted organisation is expected to have a system for consulting neighbours and the relevant local licensing authority
3. Organisations which issue certificates are also expected to have systems in place to inspect their sites to check that the terms of the certificate are being observed; and for dealing with any inquiries or complaints from the public about their sites.
4. Certificates are to be issued to the occupiers of the land
5. Each organisation must send details of certificates it has issued to the relevant exemption certificate issuing body.

Q17. What are the membership requirements for different certificates?​

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Membership is a matter for the organisations themselves, but the use of different exemption certificates dictates who can take part. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Arial]

1. 
   [*]Paragraph 5 [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]– exempted organisations issue certificates stating that a site has been approved for the use of its members. However, non-members may also use the site, unless there is an agreement between the site owner and the organisation that restricts its use to members only; [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]I hope this answers your questions[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]John[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
​

 

[scotjimland]

[/LIST][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]I hope this answers your questions[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]John[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]
[/LEFT]

As always, .. thanks John

here is the Club Rule

CL OPERATIONAL RULES

Rule 1: Visitors to your CL must be members of the Caravan Club (Club Rule) This is a condition of your certificate, breach of which could also put your cover at risk should a claim arise under your public liability insurance.

Broken Link Removed

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[scotjimland]

A recent post on The Club forum by disgruntled member... so I am not alone.. there have been over a 100 responses...

Why does the CC allow so many CL's to 'break the rules' How often are they inspected? Who decides whether they are asked to leave the network? How do inspectors work? Has anyone ever seen one!

I get increasingly annoyed by CL's which break the rules. We often go on them and there are more than 5 - often up to 10 and on one occasion 26! (and no it wasn't a rally). We've been on sites which have a 'warden' - a member who lives on site in his van and runs the site for the owner! And what about van owners who aren't members of the CC? Plenty of those around too!

I know the owners have to make a profit but for us we choose these sites because they are quiet and should only have 5 vans. LIkewise if I wanted a warden, I would go on a Club site. And why when I am a member should I not be able to get a pitch because the site is full of non-members. It is my choice not to use club or commercial sites, so why should I as a member have to put up with these incidents.

Even when you complain to the CC - you get an inpersonal reply and no feedback, nor do you find out what the investigation, if any, found out.

Rant over - off my soapbox now.

 

[GJH]

[/LIST]

Q17. What are the membership requirements for different certificates?​

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Membership is a matter for the organisations themselves, but the use of different exemption certificates dictates who can take part. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Arial]

1. 
   [*]Paragraph 5 [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]– exempted organisations issue certificates stating that a site has been approved for the use of its members. However, non-members may also use the site, unless there is an agreement between the site owner and the organisation that restricts its use to members only; [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]I hope this answers your questions[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]John[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]
[/LEFT]

I find it very strange that Natural England should issue such advice because the legislation is quite clear. Schedule 1 Para 5 (my emphasis)

Sites approved by exempted organisations
5(1)Subject to the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule, a site licence shall not be required for the use as a caravan site of land as respects which there is in force a certificate issued under this paragraph by an exempted organisation if not more than five caravans are at the time stationed for the purposes of human habitation on the land to which the certificate relates.(2)For the purposes of this paragraph an exempted organisation may issue as respects any land a certificate stating that the land has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members for the purposes of recreation.(3)The certificate shall be issued to the occupier of the land to which it relates, and the organisation shall send particulars to the Minister of all certificates issued by the organisation under this paragraph.(4)A certificate issued by an exempted organisation under this paragraph shall specify the date on which it is to come into force and the period for which it is to continue in force, being a period not exceeding one year.

The rules by which people may become members are clearly within the control of the exempted organisation but the legislation itself is clear that only members may use approved sites such as CLs.

 

[John & Joan]

I find it very strange that Natural England should issue such advice because the legislation is quite clear. Schedule 1 Para 5 (my emphasis)

The rules by which people may become members are clearly within the control of the exempted organisation but the legislation itself is clear that only members may use approved sites such as CLs.

Hi Graham
The legislation says for use by its members. It does not say for the exclusive use by its members.

Guidance is here

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/combined-guidance_tcm6-9572.pdf


John

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[John & Joan]

A recent post on The Club forum by disgruntled member... so I am not alone.. there have been over a 100 responses...

Why does the CC allow so many CL's to 'break the rules' How often are they inspected? Who decides whether they are asked to leave the network? How do inspectors work? Has anyone ever seen one!

I get increasingly annoyed by CL's which break the rules. We often go on them and there are more than 5 - often up to 10 and on one occasion 26! (and no it wasn't a rally). We've been on sites which have a 'warden' - a member who lives on site in his van and runs the site for the owner! And what about van owners who aren't members of the CC? Plenty of those around too!

I know the owners have to make a profit but for us we choose these sites because they are quiet and should only have 5 vans. LIkewise if I wanted a warden, I would go on a Club site. And why when I am a member should I not be able to get a pitch because the site is full of non-members. It is my choice not to use club or commercial sites, so why should I as a member have to put up with these incidents.

Even when you complain to the CC - you get an inpersonal reply and no feedback, nor do you find out what the investigation, if any, found out.

Rant over - off my soapbox now.

Hi Jim

CC and C&CC sites are formally inspected at least once per year and are also subject to unannounced spot inspections from time to time. These inspections are often done by the owner of another exempted site on behalf of the club.

I was involved in setting up such inspection systems for another exempted club and supervised the initial inspection of sites before the certificate was issued.

John

 

[scotjimland]

Hi Jim

CC and C&CC sites are formally inspected at least once per year and are also subject to unannounced spot inspections from time to time. These inspections are often done by the owner of another exempted site on behalf of the club.

I was involved in setting up such inspection systems for another exempted club and supervised the initial inspection of sites before the certificate was issued.

John

Hi John..

yes I appreciate and understand what you say.. my post was a quote from the CC forum where it is also being discussed.

It would appear that there are several issues on CLs that are upsetting Club members .. but not much being done to address them .

 

[mr moo]

having a 5 van CL we always ask for CC membership number at time of booking, no number no pitch. In fact there are a long list of questions to ask at time of booking, in the CL Booking Diary! As an owner it is very annoying when told 'oh haven't got my card with me!' or 'l've lost my card'.

The CL site is checked annually on an official basis with CC members being approached by the inspector for comments etc, l guess he also checks their membership status.

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