Caravan Club membership and using CLs (1 Viewer)

[GJH]

Hi Graham
The legislation says for use by its members. It does not say for the exclusive use by its members.

Guidance is here

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/combined-guidance_tcm6-9572.pdf


John

I should have highlighted "approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members" rather than just the latter part. If I was still in the game of enforcing regulatory legislation I would interpret that as meaning that if approval is for member use then it automatically excludes non-member use. No wonder lawyers make so much money

 

[bigfoot]

I prefer CLs/CSs to the club and mega sites,which is why I am a member,purely for the guides. However I am concerned that recently it was reported that reps from the clubs had visited these 5 unit sites advising them to increase their rates substantially!

 

[darklord]

Cl,s..call them what you like, in fact,...why not call them aires?, should,be free to be multi club or free of club restraints. If i had a small 5 pitch site, i,d advertise it myself, i certainly would not be dictated to by another party, and I DEFINATLEY would not ally myself with the CC, and risk abuse by their members.
I try to use CL/CS as often as I can, I phone them, make a booking, and turn up...if they were to insist on any membership, I,d just move on to the next one.
If the site is for 5 pitches, losing ONE booking, loses them 20% of their prospective income........not good!
By the way, I am a C&CC member, I dropped out of the other lot.

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[scotjimland]

Cl,s..call them what you like, in fact,...why not call them aires?, should,be free to be multi club or free of club restraints. If i had a small 5 pitch site, i,d advertise it myself, i certainly would not be dictated to by another party, and I DEFINATLEY would not ally myself with the CC, and risk abuse by their members.
.............

Under the current regulations, that is not an option.. only a club can issue an exemption certificate .. there are plenty of clubs.. in fact probably a lot more than most realise.. I'm guessing at more than a couple of dozen.. many with only a few locations.. the big two dominate the market..

5 van site owners can be affiliated to any one they choose, but cannot go it alone unless they apply to Natural England as a club as Jim has done, in order to issue exemptions for Fun CLs .. or FCLs.

 

[darklord]

So,....it CAN be done? as with thousands of other things, like upplating/downplating motorhomes, once people are aware that "there is a way" they will probably chose it, and we need'nt bemoan the fact that we do not have an "aires" system.
OK, CL's are not strictly "aires", but its a start, and if local villiages etc see how the french system works and the ethos of it, they may support CL's either financially or by relaxing plannin grestrictions. as i said, it could be a start.

The fact that a Cl can only operate under the umbrella of a "club" may be seen as a restrictive practice by the EU.

 

[Globalempire]

It doesn't seem fair to me that a campsite owner has to go to all the expense of kitting out his site with water, electrics etc but the big clubs can insist that only their members can stay on them just because they have the power to issue licences. A fairer way might be for the site owner to pay the club a reasonable fee for an inspection to make sure the site is up to scratch then let anyone stay.

Paul

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[GJH]

This criticism of clubs is misplaced.

There is nothing in the legislation to stop anyone applying for a caravan site licence totally independently. Whether or not they will receive planning permission depends on the circumstances of the individual case. Anyone receiving a licence than has to advertise in some way to drum up custom. Becoming a CL/CS guarantees advertising in the publication(s) of the exempted organisation concerned.

Neither does a CL/CS owner have to go to the expense of kitting out his site with water, electrics etc. All that is required is a fresh water tap and a black waste disposal point. No site owner is forced to sign up with any given exempted organisation but, for those who do, surely it is to be expected that they follow the rules of that organisation.

As Jim says, there are lots of exempted organisations - far more than a couple of dozen in fact. The full list for England is Link Removed.

As for aires, if enough people in this country wanted them then they would be set up. The fact is, though, that no more than a few hundred people really do want aires - response to several petitions proves that.

 

[Gromett]

Are site owners allowed to have licenses from more than one club?
For example if a CC CL wanted to get a Fun License as well is that allowed?

 

[Onderweg]

Here is another point of view:

I am a foreigner,
- do you know how strange it was for us to pay more for a pitch than anybody else ?
- do you know how strange it was to learn the camping site was fully booked but seeing many pitches empty ?
- do you know how strange it was being turned down at the gate even though many pitches were empty ?

We have only been in one other country (Sweden) with something that looks alike, but as of 2012 they have changed it, Sweden now joined the Dutch Anwb and the German Adac

Paul and Ineke

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[scotjimland]

Are site owners allowed to have licenses from more than one club?
For example if a CC CL wanted to get a Fun License as well is that allowed?

No.. a site can only be affiliated to one club

 

[Gromett]

Here is another point of view:

I am a foreigner,
- do you know how strange it was for us to pay more for a pitch than anybody else ?
- do you know how strange it was to learn the camping site was fully booked but seeing many pitches empty ?
- do you know how strange it was being turned down at the gate even though many pitches were empty ?

We have only been in one other country (Sweden) with something that looks alike, but as of 2012 they have changed it, Sweden now joined the Dutch Anwb and the German Adac

Paul and Ineke

I bet our quaint tradition of queuing patiently for hours is perplexing as well ...

 

[John & Joan]

Are site owners allowed to have licenses from more than one club?
For example if a CC CL wanted to get a Fun License as well is that allowed?

A Cl will not normally be granted if it is adjacent to a licenced site and if in the same ownership another CL/CS. However there are now a few that have decided to go commercial and have managed to retain a CL by having the commercial site in the name of someone other than the holder of the commercial licence. This would involve some legalities of say the wife owning the land that the CL is on and being the exemption holder and the husband owning the commercial site. At one time the CC would not allow this practice, so the list of CLs has dropped from about 4000 to the current 2500. In the meanwhile the club has expanded its own "commercial" site network.
Many CC & C&CC club sites are actually leased from the local authority and managed by the club on behalf of the authority. These are the ones that permit non members as well as members. Wholly owned sites usually are members only.

Some commercial sites are also leased from the local authority and managed on its behalf. This is another reason why it is proving difficult to establish Aires in this country as they would be in competition with these LA owned sites.

There are over 400 exempted clubs but only about 15 hold exemptions under paragraph 5 (see the list Graham GJH referes to in his post).

To be a club that is able to issue an exemption it "Must be a properly constituted club" not just an individual saying they are a club. Natural England want to see the constitution and for paragraph 4 they require a specific set of words in that constitution regarding the ability to lease land legally.

Motorhome Fun (and MHFacts) are not just forums, but are clubs with a constitution. As such they have to carry public liability insurance for the rally activities. This is a reason for fees for membership. Its not just money into Jim and Nukes pockets.

I was the person responsible for getting Three Rivers Outdoor Club and then British Naturism their full set of exemptions.

Even with a willing landowner and a willing club it is not easy to set up a CL as the clubs have agreed to consult with the local planners and take guidance on matters such as amenity, access and appearance before issuing a certificate to the landowner.

The 5 van limit is law but other matters such as duration of stay and who can use the site are club rules. Natural England try to get all clubs to follow the Caravan Club rules but some "plough their own furrow".

John

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[Gromett]

Thanks John. I am not asking to get around the 5 limit.

I am asking if a license can be granted for the same 5 unit site. Total units 5.

Nothing will change on the site, just that the owner can accept members from both clubs.

 

[Welsh girl]

I have seen a few that have CL's that have two CL's, one named in the wife's name and one named in the husband's name.
Cant remember where now though.

 

[Reallyretired]

I have stayed on a CS that also was a site next to it owned by the same people. Oddly the CS was nicer and had nearer facilities and was cheaper. Good reason for joining the C&CC.
I no longer belong to the CC as I would never stay on their sites, even if that was feasible with their bizarre booking system, and as mentioned, the CL network seems to be shrinking.

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[John & Joan]

Thanks John. I am not asking to get around the 5 limit.

I am asking if a license can be granted for the same 5 unit site. Total units 5.

Nothing will change on the site, just that the owner can accept members from both clubs.

The Motor Cararavanners 'Club do not insist that users are members and they have teamed up with Practical Motorhome magazine to operate the Nightstop Scheme and anyone can use the sites. These sites are exempted sites, unlike those in the Britstop, PubStop etc. schemes who leave the site owners liable if the local authority decides to look into the use, as a caravan site without a licence.

John

 

[Gromett]

Still not answered my question

I am currently on a CL the owner of which I am quite friendly with.

He keeps asking me if there is anything that he can do to encourage more campers.

If he could get a dual license, the one with the CC which he already has and one with Fun. It would mean fun members could stay here even if they aren't cc club members.

My question is therefore, can a site have two licenses?

Thanks

 

[scotjimland]

Are site owners allowed to have licenses from more than one club?
For example if a CC CL wanted to get a Fun License as well is that allowed?

No.. a site can only be affiliated to one club

Still not answered my question


My question is therefore, can a site have two licenses?

Thanks

I thought I had ..

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[John & Joan]

Still not answered my question

I am currently on a CL the owner of which I am quite friendly with.

He keeps asking me if there is anything that he can do to encourage more campers.

If he could get a dual license, the one with the CC which he already has and one with Fun. It would mean fun members could stay here even if they aren't cc club members.

My question is therefore, can a site have two licenses?

Thanks

Unfortunately if he is tied to one of the "BIg Two" clubs, there is little he can do apart from taking advertising out in their magazine to promote his site. Unless he is a member of the Caravan club himself, he cannot even put a picture of his site on their website to assit in getting bookings.

Word of mouth is good advertising. The clubs however are out to get more members so they do not see any need to let members of other clubs or non members use their network. It is £40 or so to the club for every member that wishes to use a CL. Commercialism rules.

John

 

[mr moo]

reading all these comments with great interest, yep, it would be great to have a system of aires here in the Uk, however at the moment we are stuck with the 5 van system so until planning law is updated we can either use CL /CS /Nightstops or large comercial sites & pay the going rate or indulge in wild camping.

As previously mentioned, we own a cl site & our pitch price not only covers the obvious, electric hook ups & water [we farm so pay for our water], but contributes towards the cost of public liability insurance, electric testing / certificate & mustn't forget the 20% VAT which is included in the price. I have not had any reps from CC advising on how much to charge per night, so can't comment on that, but l do know that we have to cover our costs!

So how do you get motorhomes in, well word of mouth plus having a large area of hardstanding with EHUs plus MH service point helps, & at at quess we prob get more MH now than caravans. However please don't blame CL owners for everything, l have several times disturbed the occastional motorhome owner who has driven in at dusk, parked up, plugged in & then departed very early hoping to avoid paying anything! :shout:

 

[Reallyretired]

It is my gut feeling that a lot of motorhomers don't belong to the CC. Perhaps a survey is in order.

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[Malcolm Bolt]

10 pitch site

Are site owners allowed to have licenses from more than one club?
For example if a CC CL wanted to get a Fun License as well is that allowed?

I have just spent 3 nights on a site at Lincoln. We found it on the CC website in the CL section. When we arrived the sign at the entrance was for a CL. I asked the operator how the site had 10 pitches instead of 5. His explanation was that one group of 5 were with the CC and the others were with the CCC. This had been possible by one group being regarded as adjacent to a few lodges and the others adjacent to the golf course next door in which he has an interest. --- So posible but complex.

 

[Reallyretired]

With thanks to the 156 funsters who answered my poll.

If we use these results as being generally applicable then 53% of funsters belong to the Caravan club and 66% belong to the Caravan and Camping club. This includes those who belong to both.

A CL/CS owner would be marginally better off being with the Caravan and Camping Club, but in either case they are excluding nearly half of their potential customer base.

Under those circumstances I can see they have a powerful motive to be less than rigid about whether anyone is actually a member.

 

[joner8888]

I have just been searching for a site for the weekend on http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/
and found one that looks ok for us.
I rang them and they said are you a member of the CC? - i said no i am a member of the C+ CC so they said sorry, no so,--
If it is a CC site only ,why can they advertise on the uk campsite pages and say when booking that is where you found them?
I thought if they were a CC site then all the advertisment is organised for them, otherwise why bother to belong?

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[scotjimland]

I have just been searching for a site for the weekend on http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/
and found one that looks ok for us.
I rang them and they said are you a member of the CC? - i said no i am a member of the C+ CC so they said sorry, no so,--
If it is a CC site only ,why can they advertise on the uk campsite pages and say when booking that is where you found them?
I thought if they were a CC site then all the advertisment is organised for them, otherwise why bother to belong?

The Clubs don't advertise on UK campsites, the entries are made by members.. This is common with most third party camp site data bases.. but I do agree it should be clear on the entry whether it is a Club or private site

Your link only goes to the search page so cannot comment on the entry... which site was it ?