How does the ANPR system identify the "type of vehicle"?

[BrianS]

Speed limits for our vans/mohos seems to be a bit of a grey area and I have been using Google to get some answers.

I just read this on the Business Vans website:

"With the vast major of latest generation safety cameras being directly linked to ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) systems, the data they record can immediately determine the type of vehicle being driven and therefore its appropriate limit for that type of road."

I am interested to know what details the ANPR collects to identify the type of vehicle and its "appropriate" speed limit. Is it from one or more of the Categories on the V5, perhaps D5 or J and, if not, where does it get the data?

Do we have anyone in the club that is in the traffic police that can advise or can someone point me to where I might get the question answered please?

 

[nicholsong]

Indeed it does but it isl a .Gov department and is bestowed with certain powers according to the law passed in parliament which is what gives its authority (I am sure a legal beagle will come along with a better explanation)

UK Government Departments are not allowed to exchange private information between them without the individual's consent.

Thus DVLA need written consent to use one's passport photo for use one one's Driving Licence.

 

[Pausim]

That answer totally ignores the 'Separation of Powers', see here -

Separation of powers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the UK there is very little separation of power between the legislature and the executive because the Government (executive) is formed by the dominant party in the legislature (Parliament) and the Government controls Parliamentary business. Fortunately the judiciary is properly separate. The USA have it the other way round, the executive is formed separately by Presidential election and often ends up at odds with Congress, which is elected separately. To make matters worse they have no proper separation of the judiciary because both the President and Congress have a hand in the Supreme Court appointments. The Wiki explanation is a bit theoretical for us and the USA because we both only have partial separation.

 

[ChesterB]

If one thing is shown by the above discussion, it is that believing the DVLA to be a concerned & professional organistion is optomistic, to say the least.
I have given up on a battle with the DVLA over the issue of a new V5c for a car that I bought recently. They flatly refused to discuss the matter unless I paid them £25 for the privelage.
When I wrote to the Department for Transport to complain about the DVLA and their procedures, the letter was forwarded to the DVLA for them to deal with!
Any organisation that polices itself and is allowed to sell your personal details for profit should be treated with extreme caution - every time.
Cb.

 

[joe and sue]

Don't forget that the whole speed camera issue is just another source of revenue for the government, very little to do with safety, plus every ticket issued and paid helps towards the Police clear up performance figures

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[peterc10]

Probably means another c*ck-up in Swansea.

On my V5 the vehicle category is left blank. The body type says motor caravan.

 

[Pausim]

And if you get nicked it's down to you to prove the unladen weight of your vehicle which can sometimes be impossible.

I had ours weighed by the dealer when it was first delivered to him and have a copy of the weight ticket showing less than 3050kg.

 

[Orion]

It's a crazy situation in the UK with Motorhome speed limits set by unladen weight when most manufacturers do not give an unladen weight, the only one I know that does is Carthago and they have only been doing it for the last few years.
Also a van derived from a passenger vehicle the higher speed limit apply.

And if you get nicked it's down to you to prove the unladen weight of your vehicle which can sometimes be impossible.

Our next van on order is on the maxi chassis at 4250kg but the unladen weight is only around 2700 kg, can't see Mr plod believing that when it's registered at 4250 kg.

Adria go some way towards it by stating the MiRO of the base vehicle on their website. They also list the weights of the various packs and individual options separately.

 

[WillysMB]

 

[Coolcats]

Just to add to this debate ANPR is just that a system that recognises numberplate, police use this system for tracking vehicles when they need to. It can flag up an uninsured vehicle but the point is it’s not the ANPR that does this but the data that sits behind in multiple siloes eg insurance vehicle tax MOT. So when you start thinking about this no flag would be brought up if for example a vehicle is cloned a silver 2 door coupe bmw compared to a 4 door blue bmw nothing will happen as no one is looking it’s just the reg number. However if the vehicle the reg belongs to stops being insured MOT etc then there is a high chance the cloned vehicle will be pulled.

Now when you start thinking in those terms your driving a legal vehicle which may be overweight I doubt if you will ever be pulled up just as you have been spotted by ANPR.

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[Pausim]

A vehicle I was selling was picked up by ANPR and I received a DVLA notice because it wasn’t taxed. I phoned the number given on the notice and the charge was cancelled. It was being driven by the dealer and they hadn’t noticed the trade plates but she could see them on her pictures. The system must have been throwing up automatic flags for action.

 

[Lenny HB]

Adria go some way towards it by stating the MiRO of the base vehicle on their website. They also list the weights of the various packs and individual options separately.

All manufacturers state the MIRO but that is not the unladen weight.

 

[nicholsong]

In the UK there is very little separation of power between the legislature and the executive because the Government (executive) is formed by the dominant party in the legislature (Parliament) and the Government controls Parliamentary business. Fortunately the judiciary is properly separate. The USA have it the other way round, the executive is formed separately by Presidential election and often ends up at odds with Congress, which is elected separately. To make matters worse they have no proper separation of the judiciary because both the President and Congress have a hand in the Supreme Court appointments. The Wiki explanation is a bit theoretical for us and the USA because we both only have partial separation.

I do not agree with that analysis.

The legislators in Parliament enact the laws. Government Departments administer the laws through heir Civil Servants.

If Government Departments do not administer those laws according to the way they are drafted then those departments can be held accountable through an application to the Divisional Court for a Judicial Review. Thus the 'Executive' is held accountable by the Judiciary and cannot be controlled by the Government.

The Civil Servants in UK remain in post whatever changes in the political arena. One can only imagine the chaos that might have resulted in the past weeks had the UK operated like the US system - it would not have been so much as 'revolving doors' as 'spin dryers'

 

[gus-lopez]

To be fair, its a "niche" area of law and you can't expect the people processing it to know every little aspect.

I so if they are physically looking ath the photos before sending.

Note: I am aware of cases (from google, not personally) who have pre-paid "motor caravan" tolls for Dartford, only to get fined for the system saying its a van! So its a PITA having a van registered as a VWW or whatever, albeit not a legal issue, just a pain for *every* congestion/air/parking/toll zone. Even internationally...... But thats another argument)

my foreign van that I included on my dart account in 2019 as a "motorhome" looked exactly like a transit van without windows. just took the money & nothing said.

If It’s logged as a van rather than a MoHo in theory an automatic fine could be sent for a van travelling at over 60 mph for instance.

yes & you have to know to be able to appeal.

Mistakes are made but whilst not unusual are probably not that common.

automatic system so they are sent every time .you have to know to appeal.

My V5C does not show N1 or M1 for vehicle category it shows 31. Does anyone know what this means?

Yes your vehicle is spanish

For example, which countries can access my Polish 'Antique' registration?

If you send me a couple of spare plates geoff ,I will try them out here in spain & when I run up through all the French villages to the Uk to get you as many hits as possible to check it out

It's a crazy situation in the UK with Motorhome speed limits set by unladen weight when most manufacturers do not give an unladen weight, the only one I know that does is Carthago and they have only been doing it for the last few years.
Also a van derived from a passenger vehicle the higher speed limit apply.

And if you get nicked it's down to you to prove the unladen weight of your vehicle which can sometimes be impossible.

Our next van on order is on the maxi chassis at 4250kg but the unladen weight is only around 2700 kg, can't see Mr reg.doc., which here in spain is only ever shown for commercials, & refusing to issue the exemption for the LEZ until I had to get the spanish to educate them that just because the templates showed everything that could be on a the reg doc not all was used for every vehicle. Same as the UK.

 

[nicholsong]

If one thing is shown by the above discussion, it is that believing the DVLA to be a concerned & professional organistion is optomistic, to say the least.
I have given up on a battle with the DVLA over the issue of a new V5c for a car that I bought recently. They flatly refused to discuss the matter unless I paid them £25 for the privelage.
When I wrote to the Department for Transport to complain about the DVLA and their procedures, the letter was forwarded to the DVLA for them to deal with!
Any organisation that polices itself and is allowed to sell your personal details for profit should be treated with extreme caution - every time.
Cb.

I tried to contact the Legal Dept. at DVLA and was told they did not have oneand that legal matters were dealt with by the DfT's legal dept., so I e-mailed them and it was referred to DVLA.

What a shambles.

I resolved the problem other ways, otherwise I would have written to the Minister for Transport.

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[nicholsong]

I had ours weighed by the dealer when it was first delivered to him and have a copy of the weight ticket showing less than 3050kg.

But what have you added since then?

 

[nicholsong]

If you send me a couple of spare plates geoff ,I will try them out here in spain & when I run up through all the French villages to the Uk to get you as many hits as possible to check it out

Richard, I shall keep this post as evidence that it was not my MH

 

[Pausim]

I do not agree with that analysis.

The legislators in Parliament enact the laws. Government Departments administer the laws through heir Civil Servants.

If Government Departments do not administer those laws according to the way they are drafted then those departments can be held accountable through an application to the Divisional Court for a Judicial Review. Thus the 'Executive' is held accountable by the Judiciary and cannot be controlled by the Government.

The Civil Servants in UK remain in post whatever changes in the political arena. One can only imagine the chaos that might have resulted in the past weeks had the UK operated like the US system - it would not have been so much as 'revolving doors' as 'spin dryers'

The Prime Minister is the head of the administration, including the Cabinet and the Civil Service. He and the Cabinet also decide the legislative programme for The House of Commons (except a few Private Members Bills). Very little separation.

I think it was probably in my first lecture on the British Constitution (many years ago) that we were told that the full separation of powers was not to be found in either the UK or USA. The US system has a different separation and I agree ours is better. However neither of us has complete separation. The Wikipedia explanation is not about the UK’s constitution.

 

[bigtwin]

But what have you added since then?

However much was added, it won’t change the applicable speed limits.

Ian

 

[Pausim]

But what have you added since then?

Lots but as bigtwin says that doesn’t change the applicable speed limit. Daft but that is the way it is.

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[nicholsong]

Lots but as bigtwin says that doesn’t change the applicable speed limit. Daft but that is the way it is.

If what you have added are 'fixtures' then they have added to the 'Unladen weight', because that is not ex-factory but as the vehicle is now, as I understand it.

 

[Pausim]

I keep to the lower speed limits anyway.