Clutch gone on 2yr old van.Juddergate? (1 Viewer)

[david price]

The clutch on our 2 year old van (this month) went just as we reached perpingan france,on our way back from santa sussanna spain.
It has got just over 11000 miles on the clock.Yes we do have judder in reverse if not careful.I am waiting at present to hear from fiat to see if they will fix under warranty.Will let you all know the outcome.
At present the fiat dealer in perpigan wants to strip down and see if it is a faulty clutch or down to the way the van has been driven.I have been driving well over 20 years and never had to replace a clutch.I know clutches are not normally covered under warranty but feel that with such low milage the clutch should not have gone.
Just had a call from fiat and at present still no fix for the 3lt.No further forward with the clutch but my gut instinct says they will come back and say driver error.
My insurance company are translating for me.
Safeguard my insurance company have been fantastic.There were 6 of us and they arranged taxis,hotel rooms,flights back to uk etc,so they have been worth every penny.
Also three years ago a spanish driver went all down the side of our motorhome when we were returning from portugal and were very quick to resolve the issue when we got back into the uk.Repairs authorised within 48 hours.We had an autotrail cheiftan g at the time and it took them ages to get the parts out.
If you have a tag axle and break down in france prepare to watch a comedy show.I thought it was like watching abbot and castello in action,my wife said i watched them like an hawk and i probably did but if i never corrected them on a couple of occasions then i would now be minus a front skirt on my motorhome.Funny to think about how they worked now but not so funny at the time.I must get to learn more french.
Motorhome still in perpigan so not going anywhere this easter.
Will let you all know how i get on.
Dave

 

[Losos]

To have a clutch go at 11,000 miles is terrible, no matter how you drive it's my opinion that a new clutch should last at least four times that mileage. I think a lot of people will be watching this thread to see how you get on with FIAT.

 

[Yetties]

A thought on this one

Whilst this seems very low mileage for a clutch to go on a modern vehicle and it may have been faulty, if Fiat will not accept this and replace it under warranty but insist in presenting you with a bill.

Tell the garage that if you have to pay the bill you want all the parts that are replaced and paid for by you returned to you.

This will at least give you the option to have them inspected by the manufacturers UK service agent this is the clutch its self that I am talking about not Fiat

It could be a way of you being able to put together a claim to have a go at Fiat with.

The only downside is there maybe unit surcharges involved that you may have to pay to get them to give you the old units as often clutch components are supplied on an exchange basis

If you would like any more on this tack please PM me and I will chat with you on the phone

Neil

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[Geo]

Old unit surcharges are normally only applied when a Recon clutch is fitted as they require your old unit for reconditioning
when a NEW clutch is fitted the manufacturer has no interest in your old unit, ergo no surcharge
Dont "Ask" DEMAND the old parts and push your claim for all its worth:thumb:
Geo

 

[hilldweller]

.I have been driving well over 20 years and never had to replace a clutch Dave

I'll see your 20 years and raise you 30 years.

Memory is not thst good but I'm sure I've never replaced a clutch in the last 20 odd years and I have run a number of cars over 100K miles.

You've a hard fight on your hands but do your best. Keep posting here, you never know we may be able to toss in the odd suggestion.

 

[DESCO]

With a bit of luck! Fiat are having such a bad time with the transmission on the new base units,my advice is to get the old parts and push the matter for all your worth. many are getting the clutch replaced under warranty.

You are not alone in this matter, the fault is well known throughout Europe. It is nothing to do with the way you are driving,but a fault in all the gearboxes, reverse gear is to high. The only way to reverse at a controllable speed is to slip the clutch, then you get the judder, then burnt out clutches.

If you look around the forums this has been going on for over 2 years now, and still no end in sight.

Dave

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[Yetties]

Old unit surcharges are normally only applied when a Recon clutch is fitted as they require your old unit for reconditioning
when a NEW clutch is fitted the manufacturer has no interest in your old unit, ergo no surcharge
Dont "Ask" DEMAND the old parts and push your claim for all its worth:thumb:
Geo

I agree with you completely on that but if Fiat decide that its not a warranty job they might not fit genuine parts they may fit pattern to increase the profit

 

[Shubberdog]

Too my way of thinking this is just another reson to avoid Fiat based conversions at all costs

 

[DESCO]

Shubberdog.

That is the reason I am glad that I went for a Ford not a moments trouble.:thumb::thumb:
Now I have read the problems that others have, and still no end in sight.

Dave

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[dshague]

hi there david we were camped two vans in front of you at santa sussanna in spain.
sorry to hear about your problem . came over mountings like you said good scenery .
good luck to you .

 

[TheAleMan]

Too my way of thinking this is just another reson to avoid Fiat based conversions at all costs

Spot on mate. The fiat that I own now is a first for me, but having had dealings and many telephone conversations with this shower, it is definately my last fiat ever. I strongly advise against buying a fiat based motorhome at this moment in time.

steve

 

[Oscarmax]

David Price,

If you have raised this transmission problem with your supplying dealer within the intial 12 month period, and Fiat have not resolved it, you contract still stands with your dealer for 6 year under the Sale of Goods Act, If that is the case I would seek some legal advice.:thumb:

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[david price]

clutch

Thanks all for your replies.
Will ask for old clutch,there is a transmission specialist not far from where i live and i will ask them to give it the once over.I will try to get them to get a move on,it has been a week now and we have washing in the shower cubicle,other bits i could do with and worst of all my pillows.We have been and got new ones but they are not the same.
Dave.

 

[ginge61]

F.I .A.T FIX IT AGAIN TOMORROW good luck with it

 

[peter t]

At present the fiat dealer in perpigan wants to strip down and see if it is a faulty clutch or down to the way the van has been driven..........

How do they work that one out then ??? do they have some special gadget that tells them how the vans been driven, high milage vans/cars wear out clutches which is normal, clutches which cook their linings , or break around the centre boss are normally due to overloading which can be attributed to many things.... two year old vans with a low milage don't think so.

Would be interesting to know how the clutch finally gave up... bang no drive then stop or slip slip stop. as it where.

Pete.

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[ginge61]

always the same driver error etc we use the excuse passanger error when someting goes wrong with the sidecars its just fiat that wont admit it

 

[DESCO]

David

Get the garage to ring Fiat, they have been replacing clutches under warranty, this problem all stems from the fact that too higher reverse gear has been fitted, and to reverse under control you must slip the clutch. Consider yourself lucky some have compleatly destroyed the gearbox.
Fiat have dealt with this problem in a disgusting manner for about 2 years now, and still will not say what the final outcome will be.:shout::shout::shout::shout:

This is the reason that I would never consider any Fiat again.

Dave

 

[Oscarmax]

If we are talking about a 3 litre X250, you will also need a new Dual Mass flywheel, slipping the clutch due to a high reverse gear causes the flywheel to overheat.

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[656]

Thames fiat replaced my clutch after 17000 miles under warranty. They did try to use the "It's the way you drive" ploy but after a bit of a barny decided to do it under warranty. The Fiat customer service that the garages use in the UK have an 0800 number that must not be given to customers under any condition. That number is 08003890019 but remember, you never got it from ME!!!!

 

[david price]

clutch

Peter t,
the engine started to over rev in 3rd gear and above and slow to pick up speed in lower gears was the first sign of a proplem,i managed to do about 40 miles before i could get no gears at all and noticed there was fluid coming from clutch area as well.
Have spoken to caravan guard today and garage are still looking for me to pay before even ordering clutch.I have advised them to get it to uk where i can take control.
I am probably going to have it taken to the garage where i get all our vehicles done.As far as i am concerned as long as they use fiat parts i am breaking no rules.I will speak to fiat again tomorrow but up to yet they have been a waste of time.i have been given a case referance number and been told that they are aware of the judder problem,but will not admit any liability for clutch.
Maybe worth while putting something on watchdog website?£60000 on a van that in my opinion has not even been fully run in.Now my dillema is do i use my usual garage where i will get a good job done and save 2 to 3 hundred pounds on fiat prices or get it taken to fiat in wolverhampton where it may or may not be fixed under warranty?
Dave

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

My advice would be to use an appointed Fiat Service Centre as you can claim direct under your vehicle warranty, if it is accepted then there is not a problem with the garage getting paid.

The Fiat Centre can argue your case on your behalf and is likely to do so.

Using a non appointed garage, even with genuine parts, Fiat are extremely unlikely to cough up or even listen.

Peter

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[DESCO]

Hi David,

At least if you can get it home you will have the chance to get it done where you want.

I think that it is best to use a Fiat center, at least you can argue it out with Fiat UK. and stand some chance of getting it done free, if you are prepared to argue your corner.

Best of luck, let us know how you get on.

Dave

 

[Dinkum]

Join the club David. My clutch burnt out after about 6000 miles after I had to reverse about 25 metres up a 1 in 8 hill. Fortunately closer to home than you.
Fiats first response was that they would not pay up. I told the garage in no uncertain terms that the vehicle would stay on their ramp until it rotted before I paid.
To the suprise of all, including the garage, it only took Fiat 3 hours to agree to pay 'as a gesture of goodwill' So don't take no for an answer. Good luck. Keep at it.
This whole sorry saga is really unfortunate as the van is a pleasure to drive in most other respects. (excluding the water problem of course).

 

[Oscarmax]

Fiat carried out the transmission modification to my 2008 Fiat Ducato X250 2.3 litre motorhome last week, which included a new clutch.

To date the van has only done 2000 miles, following the modifications, I still have to use 1300 - 1500 rpm and slip the clutch to reverse up an avearage gradient hill. What a waste of time

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[Yetties]

This might be the best idea yet

Peter t,
the engine started to over rev in 3rd gear and above and slow to pick up speed in lower gears was the first sign of a proplem,i managed to do about 40 miles before i could get no gears at all and noticed there was fluid coming from clutch area as well.
Have spoken to caravan guard today and garage are still looking for me to pay before even ordering clutch.I have advised them to get it to uk where i can take control.
I am probably going to have it taken to the garage where i get all our vehicles done.As far as i am concerned as long as they use fiat parts i am breaking no rules.I will speak to fiat again tomorrow but up to yet they have been a waste of time.i have been given a case referance number and been told that they are aware of the judder problem,but will not admit any liability for clutch.
Maybe worth while putting something on watchdog website?£60000 on a van that in my opinion has not even been fully run in.Now my dillema is do i use my usual garage where i will get a good job done and save 2 to 3 hundred pounds on fiat prices or get it taken to fiat in wolverhampton where it may or may not be fixed under warranty?
Dave

This idea of involving watchdog or somilar may be a good one !!!
Some of you may have heard about the Nissan Navara engines blowing due to no 3 big end bearing failing.
This was highlited on watchdog a while ago and afterwards despite the hard line Nissan had taken all along suddenly they extended the warranty to 5 years or 90,000 miles for "engines within the engine number range that have suffered" so it can work.
Neil

 

[DESCO]

Trying to get Watchdog involved, has already been tried from outher forums, they are not interested. Not a big enough audience it's only motorhomesmainly, or white van man. I expect. Not like a car when 1000's could be in trouble, that makes more headlines for the program.

Dave

 

[Yetties]

Another thought

Trying to get Watchdog involved has already been tried from outher forums, they are not interested. Not a big enough audience it's only motorhomesmainly, or white van man.

Dave

If watchdog are not interested then as a thought what about exploring the "not fit for intended purpose" within trading standards and throwing it back into the laps of the converters that insist on using a base chassis that is obviously defective when used for this application I am sure Fiat would take notice if the converters threatened to blacklist all Fiat chassis of this type.

The following is a direct quote from the department of industry website

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

Not inherently faulty seems relevant

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[buccaneer]

Trying to get Watchdog involved, has already been tried from outher forums, they are not interested. Not a big enough audience it's only motorhomesmainly, or white van man. I expect. Not like a car when 1000's could be in trouble, that makes more headlines for the program.

Dave

I have contacted watchdog several times they say they do not have many complaints.
I have also contacted VOSA and last year they only had 8 complaints on this issue.
If people are unhappy then they need to complain to any body who might help.
There must be many Fiats and Peugeot based motorhomes as in the years 2007 and 2008 had record sales.

 

[DESCO]

I agree something should be done but people don't seem to want to complain.

I cannot complain myself as I have not got a Fiat, it is just that I have taken an interest on the whole saga, via various forums, and feel that I can only pass information on in the hope that I can stop someone else getting on the wrong side of this and if they have already purchased one, to try to point them in the right direction.

I have seen that people have sent e-mails to manufacturers, asking for assistance with Fiat and they have been ignored. It was the case that dealers would blame the way they were driving, that only a small number were involved, they had never seen a case, if this was so why are Fiat though not admitting anything attempting to stop the problem. by fitting new lower reverse gears. and designing a replacement gearbox for ones they can't fix.
Why are these chassis still being built on till the fault is fixed?

The only thing I have decided from all this is never to buy a Fiat . I would sooner go without.

Dave:shout::shout::shout:

 

[DESCO]

Fiat carried out the transmission modification to my 2008 Fiat Ducato X250 2.3 litre motorhome last week, which included a new clutch.

To date the van has only done 2000 miles, following the modifications, I still have to use 1300 - 1500 rpm and slip the clutch to reverse up an avearage gradient hill. What a waste of time

I hope that you are not letting it go at that!!! If you have only had the clutch replaced they have done nothing towards curing the problem only replaced like for like. to repeat myself it is the gearbox that is at fault.:shout::shout:

Go for it.

Dave

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