Clutch gone on 2yr old van.Juddergate? (1 Viewer)

[Oscarmax]

This is the modified gearbox and clutch done last week, Fiat have told me there are no further mods, I will take further action.

 

[DESCO]

Best of luck:thumb::thumb:hope you get somewhere.

Please let me know how you get on, I do not like to think that Fiat are able to get away with this sort of treatment of people.

If the converters and dealers would only get on board there should be enough clout available. But they are most noticeable by their absence and silence.:Angry:

Good luck

Dave.

 

[peter t]

If watchdog are not interested then as a thought what about exploring the "not fit for intended purpose" within trading standards and throwing it back into the laps of the converters that insist on using a base chassis that is obviously defective when used for this application I am sure Fiat would take notice if the converters threatened to blacklist all Fiat chassis of this type.

The following is a direct quote from the department of industry website

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

Not inherently faulty seems relevant

Sadley their does seem to be a bit of general apathy in the the motorhome world regarding sub standard vehicles,and faults galore... My motorhoming experience is only based on just over a years use and thats it...but my god what a shambles I've never read so many horror stories in such a short space of time and never heard so many lame sad excuses from manufactures and dealers. Whats the common phrase programmed into this mob, they all have faults and problems " Don't Worry " total twaddle.... what happend to quality control and pdi's and a bit of pride in what you sell.
Buy a £1000 tv from comet and you expect it to pick up tv channels, if it dont you send it back/get it fixed FREE.... and the motorhome manufacturers/dealers would expect the same service.

Fit for use, conforming to contract, they're all there with Trading Stds, dept of industry, so pick up the phone and make them aware, they are good at what they do so keep at it.
somebody said on here in a previous post that some people where a little fearful of complaining and not all people have internet access, so think about all the others out there who don't even read these forums, what and who are they complaining too ???
So I say again pick up the phone.

Sorry if this little " rant" upsets anyone but thats life.
Ps ... you bet, my story will follow.:thumb:

Pete.

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[Teasy2007]

The clutch on our 2 year old van (this month) went just as we reached perpingan france,on our way back from santa sussanna spain.
It has got just over 11000 miles on the clock.Yes we do have judder in reverse if not careful.I am waiting at present to hear from fiat to see if they will fix under warranty.Will let you all know the outcome.
At present the fiat dealer in perpigan wants to strip down and see if it is a faulty clutch or down to the way the van has been driven.I have been driving well over 20 years and never had to replace a clutch.I know clutches are not normally covered under warranty but feel that with such low milage the clutch should not have gone.
Just had a call from fiat and at present still no fix for the 3lt.No further forward with the clutch but my gut instinct says they will come back and say driver error.
My insurance company are translating for me.
Safeguard my insurance company have been fantastic.There were 6 of us and they arranged taxis,hotel rooms,flights back to uk etc,so they have been worth every penny.
Also three years ago a spanish driver went all down the side of our motorhome when we were returning from portugal and were very quick to resolve the issue when we got back into the uk.Repairs authorised within 48 hours.We had an autotrail cheiftan g at the time and it took them ages to get the parts out.
If you have a tag axle and break down in france prepare to watch a comedy show.I thought it was like watching abbot and castello in action,my wife said i watched them like an hawk and i probably did but if i never corrected them on a couple of occasions then i would now be minus a front skirt on my motorhome.Funny to think about how they worked now but not so funny at the time.I must get to learn more french.
Motorhome still in perpigan so not going anywhere this easter.
Will let you all know how i get on.
Dave

Hi Dave, sorry to hear about your clutch, you didnt get far before it let you down. The weather in Santa Suzanna is great at the moment, but we had a fierce thunderstorm the other night.

We hope you get everything sorted and get home safely, best wishes to you and the family.

Ginny and Mike.

 

[david price]

fiat

Have just posted on watchdog website but it may be helpful if anyone else with issues posted on there as well.
just type in bbc watchdog and you should get their webpage.
Have spoken to fiat this morning but may as well talk to a brickwall.Date of first registration on my logbook is 16.04.07 but fiat have it has 08.12.06 ?
Apparently the converters register them before they convert them.
Anyone know where we stand legally?I.e their date or the date on my logbook?
Got prices from fiat wolverhampton,clutch £184,bearing £55,both plus vat.Happy with those prices but wait for it,labour £576 plus vat?I am not a mechanic but that seems alot to me for what i would have thought is a day to do.
Fiat are now saying i am in my third year of warranty which is not so comprehensive.Which sounds to me like they are not willing to pay weather it is their fault or not.They have a great engine,which is a pleasure to drive(forwards)with lots of power up hills etc but they are totally rubish when it comes to problems.Will i buy fiat again,Only if i suffer amnesia.
Dave.

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Date for warranty purposes should be the date of RETAIL sale to end user, not the date Fiat supplied to converter.

There have been a number of intances in the past where this has happend and as far as I am aware, the commencing warranty date has been changed to date of retail sale.

Peter

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[DESCO]

Have just posted on watchdog website but it may be helpful if anyone else with issues posted on there as well.
just type in bbc watchdog and you should get their webpage.
Have spoken to fiat this morning but may as well talk to a brickwall.Date of first registration on my logbook is 16.04.07 but fiat have it has 08.12.06 ?
Apparently the converters register them before they convert them.
Anyone know where we stand legally?I.e their date or the date on my logbook?
Got prices from fiat wolverhampton,clutch £184,bearing £55,both plus vat.Happy with those prices but wait for it,labour £576 plus vat?I am not a mechanic but that seems alot to me for what i would have thought is a day to do.
Fiat are now saying i am in my third year of warranty which is not so comprehensive.Which sounds to me like they are not willing to pay weather it is their fault or not.They have a great engine,which is a pleasure to drive(forwards)with lots of power up hills etc but they are totally rubish when it comes to problems.Will i buy fiat again,Only if i suffer amnesia.
Dave.

Dave

How about starting a new thread to try get others to complain to watchdog. If you agree I will add a post to out and about from MMM website to see if we can get them to try also. We can't lose anything.

Dave

 

[DESCO]

I have already put post on out and about.


Dave

 

[DESCO]

Have now posted on motorhome facts also.

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[Shubberdog]

:Sad:I may be naive but under British law if you bye some thing from a shop and it doesn’t work your claim is against the shop not their suppliers. So in this case should you claim against the converters, as the item they sold you is obviously not fit for purpose, and let them get what the can from Fiat. If the converters were hit with a few large bills they may stop converting Fiats and Fiat may see the light. :moon: To Fiat.

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

:Sad:I may be naive but under British law if you bye some thing from a shop and it doesn’t work your claim is against the shop not their suppliers. So in this case should you claim against the converters, as the item they sold you is obviously not fit for purpose, and let them get what the can from Fiat. If the converters were hit with a few large bills they may stop converting Fiats and Fiat may see the light. :moon: To Fiat.

Unfortunately you are wrong there, the converter does not supply the retail end user, they suply the appointed dealer who is 'piggy in the middle'

You have to claim against the dealer who then has a claim against the converter who then has a claim against the chassis/cab manufacturer.

After two years of continous use, 'fit for purpose' gets a bit thin as regards the whole vehicle, clutch going under 20,000 miles should be under Fiat warranty.

Don't get me wrong, I am on the retail customers side, not Fiats.

Peter

 

[david price]

fiat

Hi,all.
Again thankyou for all your replies.
Desco,good idea and thankyou for posting else where.You never know,if enough people go on the watchdog website fiat may sit up and listen.
Sorry about being late replying but spent all day at a funeral.My sons girlfriends dad dropped down dead last week,aged 49,none smoker and jogged everyday.It is my third funeral in the last six months,but when it comes totally out of the blue it is a shock all round.I must admit it brings a lump to my throat thinking what his family must be going through.Makes my problems seem very trivial.
Dave.

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[DESCO]

Hi,all.
Again thankyou for all your replies.
Desco,good idea and thankyou for posting else where.You never know,if enough people go on the watchdog website fiat may sit up and listen.
Sorry about being late replying but spent all day at a funeral.My sons girlfriends dad dropped down dead last week,aged 49,none smoker and jogged everyday.It is my third funeral in the last six months,but when it comes totally out of the blue it is a shock all round.I must admit it brings a lump to my throat thinking what his family must be going through.Makes my problems seem very trivial.
Dave.

Sorry for your bad news.
Don't expect much help from the forums their responce was not friendly. I have tried my best but now I bow out.

Hope all goes well'

Dave

 

[ginge61]

well sounds like you haveing murders with them the cost for labour in france will be a bit more i would say from experance

 

[peter t]

Hi,all.
Again thankyou for all your replies.
Desco,good idea and thankyou for posting else where.You never know,if enough people go on the watchdog website fiat may sit up and listen.
Sorry about being late replying but spent all day at a funeral.My sons girlfriends dad dropped down dead last week,aged 49,none smoker and jogged everyday.It is my third funeral in the last six months,but when it comes totally out of the blue it is a shock all round.I must admit it brings a lump to my throat thinking what his family must be going through.Makes my problems seem very trivial.
Dave.

Sorry to hear your news mate. last thing on your mind at the moment is clutches and fiat.
Just to let you know still doing some digging from my end on this issue, and other things.
My van has just gone back to SWIFT for some "remedial work" or read as " piece work pre redundancy inherent fault "

Has juddergate made " you tube " yet ??

"Don't expect much help from the forums their responce was not friendly. I have tried my best but now I bow out."

Which forums where these ??

Speak soon

Pete.

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[david price]

clutch

Peter t.The forums desco posted on where motorhomefacts and out and about,the forum for mmm magizine.
Have had a look and i must admit he did get some negative replies.Sadly that seems to be the way motorhomefacts is going.I used to be a member on there myself but replies on there over the past 12 months do seem to be negative for those not on the inner circle.
Read some and you will then see why this is called the friendly site.
The van is currently still in france and i am waiting for it to be taken to fiat wolverhampton.
Dave

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

Did you have the van registered with Fiat for the judder problem, only if you did then you would have set up a fault history with them, which will surely substantiate your claim that this clutch failure was as a direct result of their failure to cure the fault problem you had previously registered with them. Hope that make sense.

The other point I would be very interested in are your recover company prepared to repatriate the vehicle even though it can be quiet adequately repaired in the country it has broken down.

The reason I ask is that it would on the surface appear that it could be cheaper for them (the breakdown company) to pay for the clutch replacement than the transporter fee to get it back to the UK.

I wish you every success, and would be interested in the breakdown company scenario

Peter t.The forums desco posted on where motorhomefacts and out and about,the forum for mmm magizine.
Have had a look and i must admit he did get some negative replies.Sadly that seems to be the way motorhomefacts is going.I used to be a member on there myself but replies on there over the past 12 months do seem to be negative for those not on the inner circle.
Read some and you will then see why this is called the friendly site.
The van is currently still in france and i am waiting for it to be taken to fiat wolverhampton.
Dave

 

[david price]

Braunston.
Judder was reported over 12 months ago but no case ref given.
At first i was going to have work carried out in france but i was advised to keep old clutch and get it inspected if fiat did not replace under warranty so decided to have work carried here so i could make sure clutch did not get misplaced.
At present it is being shipped back on a low loader.I would agree that it would be cheaper for insurance to pay for repair and then drive back but dont think that is an option.Maybe worth suggesting that to insurance.
I will keep every one informed of the outcome.
Dave.

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[Losos]

I will keep every one informed of the outcome.
Dave.

David, firstly so sorry to read about the funeral you attended, it sure must be a shock for a man who would not be considered old these days and a non smoker to die suddenly like that.

Second, yes please keep us posted when you have some news. As I said in post 2 I would very unhappy about a clutch failure at such a low mileage and to happen abroad just makes it so much more difficult.

 

[JockandRita]

Peter t.The forums desco posted on where motorhomefacts and out and about,the forum for mmm magizine.
Have had a look and i must admit he did get some negative replies.Sadly that seems to be the way motorhomefacts is going.I used to be a member on there myself but replies on there over the past 12 months do seem to be negative for those not on the inner circle.
Read some and you will then see why this is called the friendly site.
The van is currently still in france and i am waiting for it to be taken to fiat wolverhampton.
Dave

Hi Dave,

Your comments re the replies that Desco received on Facts are a little bit unfair.

Whilst I agree that his heart was possibly in the right place, and that his intentions appeared to be honourable, he did come charging in like a "knight on a white horse", giving the impression that this was a new problem for Fiat/Peugeot owners, and that he could be the answer to their prayers.
There are many names who have contributed on the subject, but the main one that springs to my mind is Andy Stothert, who started the whole discussion off, thereby alerting many other Fiat/Peugeot owners to the problems.

Had Desco done some research on Facts, before starting another thread on the topic, then he may have chosen a different approach, thereby avoiding "winding up" those poor souls, such as yourself who are blighted by these mechanical problems, some of whom are members on Fun too.
As I said on Facts, I don't have, nor do I ever want a newish Fiat/Peugeot of any year, however, I am more than willing to support any campaign, to help the cause, and hopefully eradicate the problems for the owners. :thumb:

Good luck with your fight against Fiat. I genuinely wish you well. :thumb:

Regards,

Jock.

 

[bigfoot]

I am compiling some information which I hope to take further and I need your help.
Am I correct in assuming that the first model of the X250 Sevel chassis appeared on a conversion in 2007? If this is the case when was the first report of transmission faults and also 'scuttlegate'? And how many of these were on 6-speed 3litre models?
I would be grateful for your responses

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[Exustrek]

Hi Bigfoot

Ours is a 3.0l

First reported judder to Fiat in Jan / Feb 2008, more than a year later & still waiting.

Don't need any kind of incline to induce judder, it judders pretty well on a level surface too.

I believe that some are being told by Peugot & Fiat that the 5 speed models & the 3.0l models are not affected & as such there is no fix / modification planned. The response i personally recieve every time i contact them is that testing is incomplete. The truth is that neither response is satisfactory, could it be that because the vast majority of vehicles are based on the 2.3l chassis that they think they can afford to ignore the relatively tiny proportion that make up the 5 speed & 3.0l owners.

Our vehicle is now out of warranty & i fear i have a pretty hefty bill to look forward to for a new transmission at some point in the not too distant future, i just hope when the time comes it's a modified transmission, perish the thought that i'd be paying good money to go through this all over again.

Reported scuttlegate to Fiat in November 2007 & had mods done in March 2008, had to wait for engine cover to become available, Platts of Longton did a pretty good job but ended up drilling my own drain holes in the scuttle on the passenger side cos after it was sealed it just filled up with water.

Is this the kind of info you're looking for?

Bryan

 

[bigfoot]

Thanks Brian.
I am considering taking further action. I bought my vehicle in June 2008 and with only 120 miles on it ,it juddered on a campsite. Clutch cooked and was replaced. I have not had a denial just a load of bull from them. The warranty is 2 years but they are obliged to effect repairs within a 6 year period (sale of goods act),costs are to be arranged.
I am trying to compile a time line as I believe this fault was known well before it went on the market and if it wasn't, they didn't test the vehicle. Also the converters should also be responsible as the units are not 'fit for purpose'. The advice to overcome the fault is not only dangerous but wrong and doesn't work!
My previous vehicle was a Hymer on a 2.5 TD Ducato I drove it for 16 years without any problems!
My Scuttle issue was done last September. None of the faults were attempted by the garage that did the PDI. my version has a drainpipe fitted on the drivers side,each one is unique!!

 

[Oscarmax]

I have a Fiat Service News, Copyright By Fiat Auto - Printed 24/11/2006 CD 06/2006,
Ducato (250) all versions.

This is copy signed by the Fiat dealership and provided to Trading Standards, it would appear Fiat were aware of the problem as far back as June 2006.

1000 0 000 AA ENGINE
Shuddering during take off on a hill in reverse - Network Information.

Following several reports of the engine shuddering during take off in reverse on a hill, it should be pointed out that:
- If the shuddering occurs during take off with the engine below 1200 rpm, it should not be considered as a fault.
- Even if the vehicle can take off and start without accelerating, it is always advisable to release the clutch gradually maintaing the speed above 1300 rpm.

In other words feel free to slip and burn out your clutch, which is not covered under your warranty

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[Yetties]

Well anyone that owns a Fiat based conversion now must be disgusted with their attitude and have a good case to take this information to the converter and ask what they are going to do about it as this confirms an inherent problem that has been known about and therefore trading standards would have to be interested

 

[david price]

Jock and rita,
thankyou for your reply.I can only speak as i see it reguards facts.It was the first forum i joined and thought it was a fantistic site but i did notice that last year some replies were very negative and sadly they became that way on a regular basis by a few members i must admit.Yes some posts do become repetitive but both forums get new members daily and they are asking questions for the first time as far as they are aware.If they have read about a certain post a hundred times then surely it would be better not to read rather than reply with a negative.
Bigfoot,
I have a fiat commercial on a 56 plate that also has judder when reversing up a slight incline.I bought it from new after i had bought the motorhome and before i was aware of the problems,56 plate because it was pre registered by the dealer.I have done just over 17000 miles in that.It is a 120 multi shift.
The funny thing is i bought that because of how well the motorhomedrove
Dave

 

[JockandRita]

Clipped............If they have read about a certain post a hundred times then surely it would be better not to read rather than reply with a negative.

I agree with you there entirely Dave. :thumb:
However, Desco was advised and guided by Zebedee in a helpful manner, but chose not to accept that help. :Angry:

Sorry to hear that you have been stung twice with these mechanical problems. :Sad:

Regards,

Jock.

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[david price]

Update.
Had a call from insurance today,hopefully motorhome back in the uk on 24th april.
Clothes for washing will then have been in shower cubicle for nearly 4 weeks.
Not heard anymore from fiat but will chase them when van is in garage.
Dave

 

[david price]

Hi all,
hopefully van should be delivered to fiat wolverhampton tomorrow and then the fun begins.
Should know if fiat are fixing under warranty sometime next week.
Dave

 

[JockandRita]

Good luck with it Dave. :thumb:, and don't take any waffle. :Angry:

Jock.

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