Morrisons and LPG

[mentaliss]

Anyone seen the 'MMM' article about Morrisons refusal to sell LPG to motorhomers, caravaners etc, they will only sell as transport fuel.... I believe they have misinterpreted the French directives regarding filling LPG gas bottles

 

[Puddleduck]

I read that as well. Wonder what they would say if you showed them the certificate of compliance from Gas-It?

And if it's for domestic heating / cooking could you insist on the 5% VAT rate?????

 

[Techno]

Lots of alternatives sod them muppets
Asda 64.7
Shell I've seen at 64.9
Flo gas at 58.8

 

[johnp10]

I wonder if Morrisons "muppets" have imposed a blanket ban on selling road fuel for any other use, or are they trying to stump the muppets who insist on filling calor bottles using a mickey mouse pigtail from fleabay?

Just a thought.

 

[Techno]

I know petrol station staff are not rocket scientists but I always fill the LPG through my skirt mounted fill point BEFORE filling with diesel just in case they have a few brain cells :thumb:

Of course if Ken Morrison came over and asked me if I was filling for propulsion I would of course say yes mate :thumb:

EDIT I've met Ken BTW LOL

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[dave newell]

Why use a petrol station of any brand? I use our local LPG bulk supplier who have an Autogas pump in their yard. As they sell LPG for domestic fuel they are already setup to charge the correct VAT rates, in fact if you tell them its for domestic fuel they only charge 5% VAT and don't include the road fuel duty either.

D.

 

[Techno]

Because Dave it is false economy to travel out of your way to save 75% of the 20% which might be how much ?

 

[scotjimland]

camper van driver who was engulfed in flames filling up LPG bottle

Maybe the reason for the Morrison's ban ?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/eccles-morrisons-camper-van-lpg-7154852

The driver, a man in his 60s, was using the LPG pump at Morrison's in Eccles to refill a bottle on his vehicle when it caught fire

A have-a-go granny and her hero son leapt to the rescue of a driver who became engulfed in flames at a petrol station.

The 60-year-old man was using Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) from a pump at a Morrison's in Eccles to refill a bottle in a compartment on the side of his vehicle - to use in his cooker - when it caught fire.

The blaze, thought to have been sparked by the hot weather as he filled up for a three-month trip to Dorset, then spread to his hands.

With his terrified wife and two dogs in the vehicle, who were ‘singed’ by the flames, he frantically tried to battle the fire with pillows.

But they grew stronger and the driver, understood to suffer from emphysema and heart problems, was in serious danger.

Luckily, Edith Ellison, 64, and her son Neil, 42, were on the forecourt.

 

[Techno]

Maybe the muppets should just ban the muppets rather than tarring us all

 

[johnp10]

Maybe the muppets should just ban the muppets rather than tarring us all

The problem is maybe the Muppets aren't readily identifiable until they go bang or they kill someone?

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[irnbru]

Why would it go on fire? Is this safe?. Was planning on taking our van to autogas to have an undertank fitted now this scares me.

 

[olley]

Why were his hands on fire?? That sounds more like petrol, not LPG.

Ian

 

[pappajohn]

Why were his hands on fire?? That sounds more like petrol, not LPG.

Ian

easy Ian.

LPG in liquid form takes time to vapourise/evaporate and if the nozzle was incorrectly fitted, or a pipe split, it would spray liquid gas all over the shop....including his hands......and if ignited would continue to burn for some time after the liquid gas flow had been stopped

 

[timdownieuk]

Maybe the reason for the Morrison's ban ?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/eccles-morrisons-camper-van-lpg-7154852

The driver, a man in his 60s, was using the LPG pump at Morrison's in Eccles to refill a bottle on his vehicle when it caught fire

A have-a-go granny and her hero son leapt to the rescue of a driver who became engulfed in flames at a petrol station.

The 60-year-old man was using Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) from a pump at a Morrison's in Eccles to refill a bottle in a compartment on the side of his vehicle - to use in his cooker - when it caught fire.

The blaze, thought to have been sparked by the hot weather as he filled up for a three-month trip to Dorset, then spread to his hands.

With his terrified wife and two dogs in the vehicle, who were ‘singed’ by the flames, he frantically tried to battle the fire with pillows.

But they grew stronger and the driver, understood to suffer from emphysema and heart problems, was in serious danger.

Luckily, Edith Ellison, 64, and her son Neil, 42, were on the forecourt.

Odd story. "Stong smell of petrol" & "hands on fire". Doesn't sound like a liquid gas fire.

Tim

 

[Allanm]

Did they ban coaches filling up at Morrisons after Broken Link Removed

Or maybe their LPG pumps are just cr+p..... See HERE

They don't seem a very safe company, one to be avoided....

Allan

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[johnp10]

Why would it go on fire? Is this safe?. Was planning on taking our van to autogas to have an undertank fitted now this scares me.

Properly fitted with proper filling devices aren't a problem.
Filling non self fill cylinders with half arsed kit is.

 

[timdownieuk]

Thinking about this, there's obviously doubt as to what caused this fire and until there's been enough investigation, a temporary ban by Morrisons on filling cylinders on their forecourts doesn't seem too OTT.

Heck, if I owned Morrisons that's what I would do until I knew for certain what went wrong.

Tim

 

[the stig]

"Damage Limitations" springs to mind!

 

[tonyidle]

From what little information I've seen on the Internet and in the press Morrisons (and others) will only allow LPG filling via an external fill point. No one can determine from outside the vehicle what it will be used for and it may be mis-reported by the Press that fuel for propulsion is filled via a fill point and fuel for domestic use is from refillable cylinders.

The gist of Morrisons "ban" is that external fillers are allowed but filling ANY bottle is not. This simplistic instruction to their staff is so that if no bottle can be filled then unsafe bottles with no cut-off cannot be filled. Filling station staff do not, therefore, have to know the difference between the two types of bottle. It would be expensive and unreasonable to have to train them to understand and therefore be able to spot the difference and equally unreasonable for them to be trained to inspect any Certification documents.

 

[olley]

easy Ian.

LPG in liquid form takes time to vapourise/evaporate and if the nozzle was incorrectly fitted, or a pipe split, it would spray liquid gas all over the shop....including his hands......and if ignited would continue to burn for some time after the liquid gas flow had been stopped

I fitted the gun incorrectly at Morry's at Ipswich once, sprayed lpg out, but it was gone in seconds, if it had sprayed onto my hands I might have got freezer burns papa, but doubt it would have stayed long enough to burn me if it was alight.

Ian

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[Steve]

1. HSE has received reports of members of the public using purpose made adaptors to fill portable LPG cylinders at refuelling stations dispensing LPG for automotive use, commonly referred to as ‘Autogas’.
2. The filling of portable LPG cylinders is a potentially highly hazardous activity, the 'safe' filling of portable LPG cylinders requires a number critical safety measures. Automotive LPG filling stations incorporate safety measures to make filling vehicles 'safe', they do not include all of the specific measures for filling portable LPG cylinders.
3. UKLPG Industry Information Sheet No.28 ‘FILLING OF USER OWNED, PORTABLE REFILLABLE LPG CYLINDERS AT AUTOGAS REFUELLING SITES’ explains the reasons why transportable cylinders should not be filled at stations designed for filling vehicles. The guidance is freely available from the UKLPG website Broken Link Removed[1].

 

[Yorick]

Of course if Ken Morrison came over and asked me if I was filling for propulsion I would of course say yes mate :thumb:

EDIT I've met Ken BTW LOL

I met him just once. At my grandma's funeral.

When I asked my uncle why he was there, he explained that he was Granny's second cousin.

 

[GJH]

1. HSE has received reports of members of the public using purpose made adaptors to fill portable LPG cylinders at refuelling stations dispensing LPG for automotive use, commonly referred to as ‘Autogas’.
2. The filling of portable LPG cylinders is a potentially highly hazardous activity, the 'safe' filling of portable LPG cylinders requires a number critical safety measures. Automotive LPG filling stations incorporate safety measures to make filling vehicles 'safe', they do not include all of the specific measures for filling portable LPG cylinders.
3. UKLPG Industry [HI]Information Sheet No.28[/HI] ‘FILLING OF USER OWNED, PORTABLE REFILLABLE LPG CYLINDERS AT AUTOGAS REFUELLING SITES’ explains the reasons why transportable cylinders should not be filled at stations designed for filling vehicles. The guidance is freely available from the UKLPG website Broken Link Removed[1].

I don't know if the web site has been revised but it is now listed as UIS 026. The first couple of paragraphs say most of what we, as individuals, need to know:

It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites.

Containers which are attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper vans or similar) present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion purposes and may be permitted to be re-filled at autogas refuelling sites provided they:

are not removed for refilling; and

are secured in a suitable enclosure; and

are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling beyond 80%; and

are connected to a fixed filling connector which is not part of the container.

 

[John & Joan]

I don't know if the web site has been revised but it is now listed as UIS 026. The first couple of paragraphs say most of what we, as individuals, need to know:

I had a problem earlier this year with a Filling Station owned by RONTEC that refused to fill any motor caravan and stated it was company policy not to allow them to use the Autogas pump. I contacted UKLPG and received this reply.

Dear Mr Thompson

I have now been able to speak to Rontec who confirm that there must have been a misunderstanding at the site as it is quite permissible for motorhomes with fixed tanks and fillers to be refuelled at their sites.

I am sending them a copy of this email and they have agreed to contact the site in question to clarify this issue

I hope that this resolves the matter

Regards

Mike Chapman
Autogas Manager
UKLPG, the trade association of the UK LP Gas industry.
mike.chapman@uklpg.org | Visit: www.uklpg.org.
UKLPG is Registered in England No. 977549.

www.drivelpg.co.uk the independent consumer guide to LPG autogas in the UK

 

[John & Joan]

Why would it go on fire? Is this safe?. Was planning on taking our van to autogas to have an undertank fitted now this scares me.

We have had a tank for LPG and use about 1000 litres per year (Now that's a lot of bottles). Our tank is inspected and any minor problems rectified by Autogas2000 every year. This includes checks for rust as well as gas related issues.

Autogas LPG is safe. Filling bottles can be unsafe, if not done properly. Filling into a fitted tank by an external filler is as safe as filling petrol into a vehicle.

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[johnp10]

We have had a tank for LPG and use about 1000 litres per year (Now that's a lot of bottles). Our tank is inspected and any minor problems rectified by Autogas2000 every year. This includes checks for rust as well as gas related issues.

[HI]Autogas LPG is safe. Filling bottles can be unsafe, if not done properly. Filling into a fitted tank by an external filler is as safe as filling petrol into a vehicle.[/HI]

[HI]That's it in a nutshell.[/HI]
Properly fitted equipment is safe, designed to be so when used with the forecourt equipment.
Petrol station equipment is neither designed nor intended for use in filling gas cylinders, which makes the process unsafe.
Why is that so hard for some to see?

 

[Puddleduck]

At the end of the day no vendor has to sell to any individual..... Chris will correct me if I am wrong but having something for sale is an "invitation to treat" The seller does not have to accept a buyer's offer and is quite within his rights to refuse to sell for any reason or none.

We might not like it but that's tough.

 

[Yorick]

At the end of the day no vendor has to sell to any individual..... Chris will correct me if I am wrong but having something for sale is an "invitation to treat" The seller does not have to accept a buyer's offer and is quite within his rights to refuse to sell for any reason or none.

We might not like it but that's tough.

And in Liverpool its an "invitation to steal"

 

[Biged]

Maybe the guy had a DIY fitted system as i so often see recommended on here

If his fill hose was badly fitted or defective then this could leak on fill up, the none return valve on the cylinder would automatically stop this after.
Liquid LPG could be pouring from this and it does not take much to light it :Sad:

 

[scotjimland]

Maybe the guy had a DIY fitted system as i so often see recommended on here

Or maybe a faulty Gaslow system fitted by an 'expert'.. ?

Broken Link Removed


I make a far better job than many so called 'experts'.. as do many other DIYers on here..

DIY ers have a vested interest in getting it right ..

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