Winterisation on an A-class

[RubyOptics]

Hello all,

Our current plan (there have been many so far!) is to look at some of the 6 metre A-class vans for our family of four as we really don't like the dinette/bunk-bed combo we currently have. Both Dethleffs and Pilote have some models in this size (although the Pilote isn't made anymore and so would be a couple of years old). The Pilote is winterised with both tanks internal, but the Dethleffs isn't and has an underslung grey tank.
We DO need it winterised. We use our van year-round and winters here in Poland are cold to say the least. I know i can fit aftermarket heating pads and insulation to the grey tank but I would like to ask the following questions if I may:

1 - How much power do these things draw on average? I can see the power rating myself but if they are thermostat controlled they won't be running constantly. Does anyone have any real-world experience and if so what kind of draw did you experience over-night?
2 - When we were looking at some Adria vands recently (Oh my goodness they are lovely aren't they?!) we saw in the garage a control unit to siphon some of the warm air from the main truma heating into a "case" (for want of a better word) that surrounds the grey tank and thus prevents it from freezing. Is it possible to retro-fit this type of system and if so has anyone any idea of the cost involved?
3 - Are there any other ways of winterising the grey tank other than these? If it was just for the odd skiing trip I would be happy with the pads, but we go out for weekends all the time and if it's -25 that underslung grey tank is going to be a concern.

Thanks as always you lovely people!

Joe

 

[Figaro]

I get the impression you're not talking campsites with hook up ?
I can`t answer your question except to say my Hymer is fully winterised but I wouldn't to be in it in -25 without EHU.
The grey tank is the least of your worries in those temperatures, just leave tap open with it draining into a bucket.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

I don't think the pads are controlled by a stat, they are just low wattage, although i could be wrong on that, but would imagine they might be power hungry.
A friend of mine uses his van mainly during the winter for skiing snowboarding etc and he does like it extreme, his tank was unheated and he did something similar to what you describe, bled off some heater warm air into the grey tank through the top, he says it works a treat as he had the pads but he says they were power hungry and much over-15 they didn't work well.
He also tapped off the rear heater that is powered by the engine coolant, piped that into the grey tank as a sort of radiator for the grey water.
Food for thought maybe?

 

[clanjones]

In the single floor Rapido A class there is an option to have blown air circulating around the grey tank. Seems to work ok in our van.

 

[PJGWiltshire]

We have a carthago which has the double floor. All compartments under the floor have hot air blown to them. So in our case the two water tanks will receive heat thus should prevent freezing. The problem comes when leaving the van unattended and without a heat source at very low temperatures. It does not matter what van you have the van temp will drop below 0, thus freeze water, if the van is not left with a heat source. Also the temperature will drop low enough to drop the frost preventer valve for the boiler.
When we have been skiing it is then necessary to leave a source of heat on when the van is left unattended so that there is not a freeze up.
We normally are on EHU so plug in a oil radiator which keeps the main living area nice and toasty. The problem is that we are not blowing hot air around the blown air system. So to prevent any freezing we operate the waste water straight into a bucket outside via pipe from tank hose connector. Then empty bucket straight after use to stop that freezing. My main access hatch to the tanks are in the living area. I lift the lid so warm air y circulates. On our return we have never found issues of freezing up. At night the blown air is used to keep the whole van warm

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[Lenny HB]

I think you will find the Dethleffs waste tank is in an insulated enclosure & heated from the vans heating system.

 

[Larrynwin]

Our Hymer has double floor and hot air blown throughout including lockers

 

[RubyOptics]

I think you will find the Dethleffs waste tank is in an insulated enclosure & heated from the vans heating system.

Are you sure about this as the options seem to list "Waste water tank and pipes insulated and electrically heated"???

 

[RubyOptics]

Our Hymer has double floor and hot air blown throughout including lockers

I have this on my current van and yes, it works brilliantly.

I don't think the pads are controlled by a stat, they are just low wattage, although i could be wrong on that, but would imagine they might be power hungry.
A friend of mine uses his van mainly during the winter for skiing snowboarding etc and he does like it extreme, his tank was unheated and he did something similar to what you describe, bled off some heater warm air into the grey tank through the top, he says it works a treat as he had the pads but he says they were power hungry and much over-15 they didn't work well.
He also tapped off the rear heater that is powered by the engine coolant, piped that into the grey tank as a sort of radiator for the grey water.
Food for thought maybe?

Most tend to be stat controlled and they are certainly an option I would go with.

I get the impression you're not talking campsites with hook up ?
I can`t answer your question except to say my Hymer is fully winterised but I wouldn't to be in it in -25 without EHU.
The grey tank is the least of your worries in those temperatures, just leave tap open with it draining into a bucket.

You're right, I'm more concerned with when we are off-grid. This also eliminates the bucket option as I won't have anywhere to responsibly ditch the contents of the bucket!

 

[Speve]

Our Hymer B678DL has winterised tanks with hot air from heater blown around them and heating to garage,twin singles attack and double drop down over cab.heating is really good. but 7.5m there are shorter versions

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[Ivory55]

Going out in the van at minus 25 ! We only go out when it’s plus 25. Haha

 

[Lenny HB]

Are you sure about this as the options seem to list "Waste water tank and pipes insulated and electrically heated"???

Maybe I'm wrong I assumed they would be the same as Hymer. Unusual for a German van not to be fully winterised.

 

[Figaro]

You're right, I'm more concerned with when we are off-grid.

In -25 I wouldn't like to rely soly on the Truma for heating, I'd definately want other options in case of failure

 

[Lynne Roy]

Hello all,

Our current plan (there have been many so far!) is to look at some of the 6 metre A-class vans for our family of four as we really don't like the dinette/bunk-bed combo we currently have. Both Dethleffs and Pilote have some models in this size (although the Pilote isn't made anymore and so would be a couple of years old). The Pilote is winterised with both tanks internal, but the Dethleffs isn't and has an underslung grey tank.
We DO need it winterised. We use our van year-round and winters here in Poland are cold to say the least. I know i can fit aftermarket heating pads and insulation to the grey tank but I would like to ask the following questions if I may:

1 - How much power do these things draw on average? I can see the power rating myself but if they are thermostat controlled they won't be running constantly. Does anyone have any real-world experience and if so what kind of draw did you experience over-night?
2 - When we were looking at some Adria vands recently (Oh my goodness they are lovely aren't they?!) we saw in the garage a control unit to siphon some of the warm air from the main truma heating into a "case" (for want of a better word) that surrounds the grey tank and thus prevents it from freezing. Is it possible to retro-fit this type of system and if so has anyone any idea of the cost involved?
3 - Are there any other ways of winterising the grey tank other than these? If it was just for the odd skiing trip I would be happy with the pads, but we go out for weekends all the time and if it's -25 that underslung grey tank is going to be a concern.

Thanks as always you lovely people!

Joe

Can I suggest looking at Alan Kerrs Paignton, they have Malibu by Carthago double floor A class

 

[RubyOptics]

In -25 I wouldn't like to rely soly on the Truma for heating, I'd definately want other options in case of failure

We aren't heading into the wilds of Siberia! It's just a normal (but fairly cold) winter temperature over here. If it fails we'll be able to either get home or to a friends/campsite and plug into mains for a fan heater. Good point though and well worth anyone keeping in mind if they are using their van in the winter for the first time.

Can I suggest looking at Alan Kerrs Paignton, they have Malibu by Carthago double floor A class

I live in Poland, so a little bit far for me!

Maybe I'm wrong I assumed they would be the same as Hymer. Unusual for a German van not to be fully winterised.

Yes, I thought the same as well. It seems that they aren't winterising as standard anymore. Bit of a shame. They do still offer double floored models but they are either gigantic, not the layout we want, or both.

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[dunnah01]

Retro fitting a warm air heating to an insulated tank would be easy. You'd need to find a suitable insulated box to wrap the grey tank leaving a 1/2" gap all round and then simply t off the nearest blown air duct to a new hole through the floor above the grey tank. This is the factory fit arrangement on our Rapido.

 

[Eggs]

In -25 I wouldn't like to rely soly on the Truma for heating, I'd definately want other options in case of failure

Even here in Blighty I wouldn't rely on one heat source in the winter when off grid.

 

[Bessy765]

Why not fit a Chinese diesel heater and duct the air where you need it gives you a back up heat source.

 

[RubyOptics]

Why not fit a Chinese diesel heater and duct the air where you need it gives you a back up heat source.

That's kind of what I'm asking in number 3. I would be looking to fit a diesel heater anyway, but unless the grey tank is either boxed in and heated already, I haven't actually got anywhere to duct the air to as it were. If I did, then I wouldn't need the diesel heater other than as a secondary or back-up heater.

 

[RubyOptics]

Even here in Blighty I wouldn't rely on one heat source in the winter when off grid.

In colder weather we always, always carry an electric fan heater with us so that if the worst happens we can find an open campsite or friendly farmer and jump onto EHU for the night if we are too far away from home to get there in a couple of hours. For the same reason we always carry an EHU to domestic cable adapter.

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[RubyOptics]

Retro fitting a warm air heating to an insulated tank would be easy. You'd need to find a suitable insulated box to wrap the grey tank leaving a 1/2" gap all round and then simply t off the nearest blown air duct to a new hole through the floor above the grey tank. This is the factory fit arrangement on our Rapido.

This is the type of arrangement I would prefer. In an ideal world, any van we buy would already have it, but I am aware that our requirements are rather contrary to themselves in a lot of ways and so the list of vans that fit them is getting increasingly smaller!! It's the "find a suitable insulated box" part that worries me though as I feel this may well be easier said than done! Thanks for your reply though, I'll take a look around and maybe speak to some dealers for some quotes.

 

[Scotch mist]

This thread has perhaps answered a question I have about my new pilote a class , it has alde wet heating & I found 2 pipes (speed fit ) taped of the main pipes with a isolating valve on it , I wondered where it was going , it is possible they are going to my inboard water tanks (double floor ) , the valve is probably there so it turned on for extreme conditions

 

[Figaro]

Probably, but can you ask your dealer ?

 

[Shrimp]

Why can’t you dump grey (washing water) under a hedge/tree, in a ditch? Unless you’re talking about black water!

 

[bigtwin]

Maybe I'm wrong I assumed they would be the same as Hymer. Unusual for a German van not to be fully winterised.

I think it probably depends on the model; ours is located in the double floor.

Ian

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[Lenny HB]

This is the type of arrangement I would prefer. In an ideal world, any van we buy would already have it, but I am aware that our requirements are rather contrary to themselves in a lot of ways and so the list of vans that fit them is getting increasingly smaller!! It's the "find a suitable insulated box" part that worries me though as I feel this may well be easier said than done! Thanks for your reply though, I'll take a look around and maybe speak to some dealers for some quotes.

Our first Hymer had a plywood box around the waste tank that would be easy to make. Only needs to be 3mm with polystyrene insulation inside, you need to cut channels in the insulation for air flow if heating it.

 

[Lenny HB]

I think it probably depends on the model; ours is located in the double floor.

Ian

Ours has a double floor but the top of the tanks are level with the lower floor and come down 5" below the chassis. Flipping stupid I've had to repair the boxes on both tanks after grounding them on rough ground.

 

[RubyOptics]

Why can’t you dump grey (washing water) under a hedge/tree, in a ditch? Unless you’re talking about black water!

It's mainly due to perception from others. I like to think of myself as not only a generally considerate person, but also considerate of the pastime that we all enjoy. As I said earlier, we wild camp (or whatever term you choose to use) more than anything else and so anyone seeing me taking a bucket from under my van and sneakily dumping it around the place is going to wonder what the hell I'm doing, and very probably assume the worst. Also, my wife generally has a shower before going to bed in the evening and so I don't fancy having to go empty a bucket at 11pm in my pyjamas!

 

[MichaelT]

I think you will find the Dethleffs waste tank is in an insulated enclosure & heated from the vans heating system.

Ours certainly is, although like many the tank is underslung it is well insulated and the double floor heating keeps it from freezing (though not been in Arctic conditions yet to fully test it). Dethleffs do make a point of saying their vans are fully winterised in their blurb.

 

[RubyOptics]

To be honest

Our first Hymer had a plywood box around the waste tank that would be easy to make. Only needs to be 3mm with polystyrene insulation inside, you need to cut channels in the insulation for air flow if heating it.

To be honest Lenny HB although we were hoping to get something around the 3-4 year old bracket, I had a look on mobile.de last night at some Hymers (even as a teenager I just loved Hymer for some reason so getting one would also tick an item off the bucket list I guess!). The 3-4 year old ones fall outside our budget, but there were a number of 6-7 year old 514s that looked to tick all the boxes. As I know you have had a number of Hymers yourself, any advice other than the usual when looking at Hymers of this age?

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