What were the designers thinking?

[Dorwyn]

I have an Autotrail Tribute 670 (but Roller Team built) pvc. On previous pvcs I have always had flush type windows. When I viewed this van, the thing I least liked was the caravan-type windows, but decided that they were fitted to so many vans what could be wrong with them? What I never thought about was the effect on opening caravan-type top hung windows on a sliding door. Yes, you need ventilation since it's next to the cooking facilities, but we don't use the opening feature when cooking since you need to close the window before opening/closing the sliding door. The fast movement needed to close and slam the door exerts so much strain on the side window fittings. Who ever thought it a good idea to have this arrangement on a sliding door?

Added to that is the stupid method of fixing the internal blind surround. It is only fixed on by a single self-tapper in each corner. I took it back under warranty, because it rattled badly. I now find that each time, they simply solved it by inserting a bigger screw. Now I can't get the next size up, a size 10, into the plastic corner piece. I tried drilling another hole for a second screw in the inside left bottom fixing, but I'm useless at drilling into metal, and can't get at it properly to drill because it is below the top of the kitchen unit, so there's no space. The frame of the blind is 1080mm wide, so 4 screws in each corner is insufficient, with the door constantly moving, to say nothing of the on-road motion. It squeaks and rattles all the time, since there is no frame support along the over 1 metre length. Nor can you fix a bracket or two because it would foul the blind shutter.

So the only thing I can think of, is to bond some L-shaped or quadrant wood moulding above and below the window frame surround.

The other thing is that nothing I glue ever properly fixes. Another of my skill limitations

Any better ideas?

 

[Lenny HB]

Take the frame off and put a bead of a non setting sealant behind it. Don't use a PU like Sikaflex or you will never get it off if you need to.

 

[Garratt]

Is the screw into the metal inner door frame? If so, you might be able to set a rivnut in the existing holes and then use a machine screw to fit the blind.

 

[Dorwyn]

Is the screw into the metal inner door frame? If so, you might be able to set a rivnut in the existing holes and then use a machine screw to fit the blind.

Rivnuts are not possible because I cannot get to the inner left corner of the frame (maybe on the three other corners, but they are presently holding. Yes, they are screwed into metal. The main issue is that the screws basically only have the metal binding into the thread, so that with constant vibration they break the binding. Does that make sense?

 

[Dorwyn]

Take the frame off and put a bead of a non setting sealant behind it. Don't use a PU like Sikaflex or you will never get it off if you need to.

This sounds like a good idea. But thinking about it, there is not much adhesion available because the frame is only edge on to the plastic door inner.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mitzimad]

change the window to a slider same size and sell the old one on ebay ive had this argument several times on a door only use a slider every time ive said it the owner has told me its not a problem obviously it is

 

[Dorwyn]

change the window to a slider same size and sell the old one on ebay ive had this argument several times on a door only use a slider every time ive said it the owner has told me its not a problem obviously it is

Yes, thought of that, it's what I liked about the previous vans. How secure are those sliders? Plus, I'd still need the door blinds on the inside.

 

[rosalan]

Try industrial Velcro, seriously. My Dethleffs had the external body parts attached with the extra strong Velcro. Once on it would be very firmly bonded if you have enough surface available to attach to.
What a stupid design idea, a window on a sliding door.

 

[Dorwyn]

Try industrial Velcro, seriously. My Dethleffs had the external body parts attached with the extra strong Velcro. Once on it would be very firmly bonded if you have enough surface available to attach to.
What a stupid design idea, a window on a sliding door.

Where do you get that?

 

[rosalan]

On my Dethleffs Advantage, I broke the bottom rear plastic moulding. Had it replaced and was astonished to see it is held on by extra strong Velcro type material. I previously was unaware how strong this material can be. It is not designed to take on and off frequently.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Otter Spotter]

On my Dethleffs Advantage, I broke the bottom rear plastic moulding. Had it replaced and was astonished to see it is held on by extra strong Velcro type material. I previously was unaware how strong this material can be. It is not designed to take on and off frequently.

You can buy this Velcro at either Hobbycraft or B&Q we needed to buy some for our Fridge because when it was first fitted it had not been secured properly and fell out onto kitchen unit opposite as we went around a round about. It’s very strong.

 

[Otter Spotter]

deleted

 

[Gromett]

Yes, thought of that, it's what I liked about the previous vans. How secure are those sliders? Plus, I'd still need the door blinds on the inside.

In my self build I used a sliding window of around the same size. No problems with security, I actually think they are better. In the 9+ years I had that van I never had a single problem with the window. Lots of holes to screw it into the metal.

However, I think because your kitchen is already in place you may need to remove the sliding door to fit it properly and without issues. This is a bit of a hassle but not an overwhelmingly difficult job. You would need two people though.
Take photos of the mountings before removing, and mark the bolts/screws/mountings so you can get them back in exactly the same place. (count screw threads showing if required)

 

[berni109]

As Lenny HB said above 'non setting mastic' or even a bit of blue tac (but needs to be warm outside to do that). Cleanest and possibly cheapest option is some 'body mounting tape' (Ebay is your friend) like double sided tape and 1mm or so thick comes in various widths and is extremely adhesive but it's a one shot fix u cant reposition it.
You may find the rattle when driving is the metal strips with the finger pulls. Only way I found to stop that was to wedge a small foam bung between them and the frame.
Hth

 

[mitzimad]

Yes, thought of that, it's what I liked about the previous vans. How secure are those sliders? Plus, I'd still need the door blinds on the inside.

if you buy a sietz sliding window they are fixed by the screws linking the inner and outer parts and come complete with the cassette holding the blinds you would need to check dimensions of the hole in the door
ive always said that a top hung window cant be used for ventilation if you have back seat passengers and also liable to damage if the slider gets slammed

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dipsie]

I noted that problem with our V Line, I cut up a price of plastic cable trunking to an appropriate length stuck Velcro in the door slide channel and the corresponding bit to the trunk and it stops the door going back far enough to hit the opened window. I made another stop in the doors bottom track to stop it sliding shut, in fact I put in two so I can select how much door I want open.

 

[dipsie]

Ah, Dorwyn ,sorry, I miss read your subject. I though you were saying about the sliding door going too far back and clobbering the rear near side window.
To be honest I do’nt think we have ever opened the sliding doors window for kitchen ventilation, probably the only time it’s been opened is to clean the area under the window.
We had an extractor fitted in the roof above the kitchen removing the standard roof light.

 

[TheBig1]

I fitted a slider on my self builds, but cut down the blind frame to help with clearance as the sliding door opened. I secured using lengths of 15mm ali angle, screwed to the door on the inside of the frame, then used black self tappers through the plastic into the ali. They never rattled or came loose

 

[Dorwyn]

So far I have taken the Seitz blinds frame off, put Velcro tape on, and replaced. It has worked a bit, but there are still issues. The inner door lining is slightly curved, so the Velcro on the upright section of the frame doesn't connect in the middle, and the constant movement of the door pulls the top section out of contact, so it starts to rattle again. So I decided to try some mastic. The mastic I bought was so runny, I wondered if it might sag, but I have found that it thickens up if you leave it a few days. But am thinking it might droop in the summer heat. Even so I'll try that when the weather is a little milder.

As regards the opening window, I thought taking off the acrylic window and replacing with a single glass fixed tinted window. I then realized that the present opening window is hung on a metal rail which is bonded onto the door. A friend suggested it would be nigh on impossible to take the rail off. So I will have to find someone who can supply a made to measure window, since the standard ones are all the same size and shape, and basically fit the whole top part of the sliding door.

 

[TheBig1]

So far I have taken the Seitz blinds frame off, put Velcro tape on, and replaced. It has worked a bit, but there are still issues. The inner door lining is slightly curved, so the Velcro on the upright section of the frame doesn't connect in the middle, and the constant movement of the door pulls the top section out of contact, so it starts to rattle again. So I decided to try some mastic. The mastic I bought was so runny, I wondered if it might sag, but I have found that it thickens up if you leave it a few days. But am thinking it might droop in the summer heat. Even so I'll try that when the weather is a little milder.

As regards the opening window, I thought taking off the acrylic window and replacing with a single glass fixed tinted window. I then realized that the present opening window is hung on a metal rail which is bonded onto the door. A friend suggested it would be nigh on impossible to take the rail off. So I will have to find someone who can supply a made to measure window, since the standard ones are all the same size and shape, and basically fit the whole top part of the sliding door.

The standard glass for the side door can be bought with built in small opening vent. The original is cut into the panel that is removed to bond the glass in. Then simply retrim the inside and make a curtain that can be fitted with velcro.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pjdow]

A little thread lock on the screws may help a bit?

 

[Dave Scadding]

Had similar issue with mine. Solution use some wood ( I used some wooden BBQ skewers) push into screw hole and than cut flush insert screw and tighten.

 

[Dorwyn]

A little thread lock on the screws may help a bit?

I tried that on the side rear Seitz, it seemed to work but I have not been on the road since. LIkewise on the rear window clip screws which had been over-tightened and lost their thread, I tried Gorilla glue, poured it down the hole and allowed it to run under the clip block. Seemed to work too, but no testing yet. Might try the wood thing also mentioned, if either method fails. It all seems so mickey mouse to me, though. £40 or £50,000 motorhomes and you have to p!ss around like this.

 

[Dorwyn]

The standard glass for the side door can be bought with built in small opening vent. The original is cut into the panel that is removed to bond the glass in. Then simply retrim the inside and make a curtain that can be fitted with velcro.

The opening vent does not match the hole already there, I'd be happy with a solid window, but need a reduced height one because of the present outside opening caravan type window hanger which I would have trouble removing, coz it's well bonded.