Weight and fittings (1 Viewer)

[GWAYGWAY]

I was working on the wiring today so I needed to take the drivers seat off of its base, It was horrendously heavy to move it must be about 60 kilos maybe more, it was difficult to slide let alone lift,, AND yes I did remove all the bolts.. It was worse still putting it back on the pedestal. If I need to prove the van below 3050 kg empty to argue a speeding ticket I would certainly take one out along with the table and the mattresses along with all disposable items and fluids. You do not realise the way that individual items go towards making the total empty weight up,, so many bit and they all weigh so much, that is probably why they struggle so much to get a van miro to an acceptable level.

 

[Pausim]

Could replace the seats with deck chairs but the fine for not having a seat belt might be as much as the speeding fine.

 

[Emmit]

Could replace the seats with deck chairs but the fine for not having a seat belt might be as much as the speeding fine.

Could cut a diagonal strip in the seat chair webbing. No one would notice.

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[Pausim]

Could cut a diagonal strip in the seat chair webbing. No one would notice.

Yes that should work. And you would still have the deck chair attached having gone through the windscreen in an accident, somewhere comfy to sit whilst waiting for the emergency services.

 

[tonyidle]

I was working on the wiring today so I needed to take the drivers seat off of its base, It was horrendously heavy to move it must be about 60 kilos maybe more, it was difficult to slide let alone lift,, AND yes I did remove all the bolts.. It was worse still putting it back on the pedestal. If I need to prove the van below 3050 kg empty to argue a speeding ticket I would certainly take one out along with the table and the mattresses along with all disposable items and fluids. You do not realise the way that individual items go towards making the total empty weight up,, so many bit and they all weigh so much, that is probably why they struggle so much to get a van miro to an acceptable level.

My last van had two batteries under there. You're right about the weight. In the end I worked with the whole seat slid forward so it rested on the steering wheel (all base bolts removed of course).

 

[Lenny HB]

You can get a good idea without going to that extream. Take the figure from line 13.2 Technical MIRO on your Certificate of Conformity, this is the weight it left the factory at with factory fitted extras. From that figure take off the allowances of 188 kg (fuel, driver, gas & water) and add and dealer & self fitted extras.

e.g. Technical MIRO 3180 kg
Less allowances - 188 kg
Extras fitted 50 kg
------------
Approx unladen weight 3042 kg.

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[rickwiggans]

Not sure stripping stuff out would work from a legal point of view. The weight in question is the weight it left the factory. You might find yourself needing to generate a new CoC. Good wheeze though. It does though, re-emphasise what a load of nonsense some of these regs are. My last van had an unladed wight of 3020kg. My current van has an unladen weight of 3190. Physically, they are the same size, but are subject to different speed limits. I know there are always going to be cut off points so I suppose we just grin and bear it!

 

[gus-lopez]

Yes that should work. And you would still have the deck chair attached having gone through the windscreen in an accident, somewhere comfy to sit whilst waiting for the emergency services.

Reminds me of one of the usual spring /summer accidents on the M5.
Having crept along for over an hour to passthe caravan destruction derby littering 2 lanes + hard shoulder right at the North bound exit for Taunton. most people were amazed , & many apoplectic, to see the old couple had rescued a table, 2 chairs & a sun umbrella & were sitting on the hard shoulder.
The comments were mostly unprintable

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I MEANT to take out all the heavy items then take it to the weighbridge and get a certified weight ticket, mine has virtually all the extras that can be fitted, so a load would have to come off to get down to the empty weight. once I have the ticket then it can go back on to the more loaded weight which is a maximum of 4200kg at the moment, include motorbike spare diesel all food stuffs clothes, spare wheel tools etc etc. Just prove the manufactured weight,, actually a chassis cowl from Mercedes Benz which probably weigh so little it is about 2 tonne or less. I just need to get it down to 3000kgs.. but the way that all these vans are made it is a wonder that any make the proper MIRO weight, and therefore all overweight before the owner gets in, let alone put full fuel in it. If they were commercial vans they would be a fiscal disaster to run at the stated weights.

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[Pausim]

I suspect that any legal arguments would be settled by the figures given by Hymer on the Certificate of Conformity and any amount of stripping down will have little bearing on the matter. My Hymer C of C gives two weights that might be the relevant kerb weight. One is below the important 3050 at 3015 and the other is over and looks like the MIRO after adding factory extras.

 

[pappajohn]

If you strip everything out, fill all containers including the tyres with helium and attach helium balloons to the roof so you have to tie it down you still won't win against officialdom.

 

[gus-lopez]

As @pappajohn said what you can reduce it to has no meaning. The only weight is what hymer said that the UL was .

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[GWAYGWAY]

When it comes down to it the weight on a weighbridge is below 3000kg then that has to be the fact that it is below 3050kg then it has to be that and anything inside the vehicle is load after all there is no load carrying capacity really, as the oven, the awning are not the vehicle they are the load along with the spare etc. If the weight shown on the form is below any specified limit then it IS below it and whatever is put in after is the load, including the passengers.. To produce on board a vehicle a certified weighbridge certificate, to a traffic policeman who stops you for doing 60 on a normal road when he say commercial vehicle are limited to 50, then you can quote the stated law about motorhomes being allowed normal car limits of 60 is fair enough. It is NOT a commercial van and is proven to be below 3050kgs then the case would be very rocky in a court, the base unloaded of mine on, Hymer adverts without accessories is 2970kgs and adding all the extras does not make it add up as unladen weight being higher as the passengers and fuel , water etc are all disposable load. My point to start with is that the luxury items like comfortable seats and all the extra crap like cushions bed clothes , mattresses are not the vehicle they are the loaded vehicle. The makers are not doing the best to keep the weights down to where they are actually going to be legal for anybody without a C1E to drive them then the licencing and designation of the vehicle is badly out of skew offered for sale. There is no reason why those bloody seats are 70+ kg each they could be lighter along with a load of other things. MIRO's are nothing to do with it as the percentage of fuel, water, gas and driver are all in that figure and not the unladen weight All I want is on board proof that it is so.

 

[Larrynwin]

First of don’t break the speed limit then you wouldn’t need to worry but if pulled up I doubt that any PC would argue with the Reg doc or cof .

 

[Lenny HB]

I suspect that any legal arguments would be settled by the figures given by Hymer on the Certificate of Conformity and any amount of stripping down will have little bearing on the matter. My Hymer C of C gives two weights that might be the relevant kerb weight. One is below the important 3050 at 3015 and the other is over and looks like the MIRO after adding factory extras.

The two weights on the C of C are MIRO & Technical MIRO, the technical one includes factory fitted options. Both include allowances for 90% fuel, 20Lt water, 1 X 11 kg Aluminium gas bottle & driver at 75 kg.

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[pappajohn]

@GWAYGWAY .... Why has your user name turned GREEN. ?
You've been a member for years.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

First of don’t break the speed limit then you wouldn’t need to worry but if pulled up I doubt that any PC would argue with the Reg doc or cof .

You mean stay at 50 then on ordinary roads? I normally do, but 60 is permitted? according to the cockeyed laws of the land. I do not normally drive with the Registration document which does not say unladen weight OR the certificate of conformity. In fact the logbok came back as revenue weight of 4200 kgs , After I went to all the earache of trying to get it properly upgraded because the muppets at DVLC do not do it properly , as others on here have found out.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

@GWAYGWAY .... Why has your user name turned GREEN. ?
You've been a member for years.

I suddenly got shut out as JIM wants the money, I went green at the thought of my wallet lightening below limits. I was half way through the posting and it stopped.

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[Pausim]

The two weights on the C of C are MIRO & Technical MIRO, the technical one includes factory fitted options. Both include allowances for 90% fuel, 20Lt water, 1 X 11 kg Aluminium gas bottle & driver at 75 kg.

Thanks for that info @Lenny HB . If MIRO is different from Kerb Weight I begin to wonder what official records are held to decide which speed limits apply. Most of the time I am towing so the lower speed limits apply anyway, though this doesn’t seem to apply to the caravan that passed me on the 3 lane single carriageway part of the A303.

 

[2657]

Has anybody actually been prosecuted for speeding using this outdated piece of legislation, seems a lot of fuss over nothing to me.

 

[G-RMPS]

The two weights on the C of C are MIRO & Technical MIRO, the technical one includes factory fitted options. Both include allowances for 90% fuel, 20Lt water, 1 X 11 kg Aluminium gas bottle & driver at 75 kg.

The weight on my CofC is definitely the empty weight, at 3220. Taking 5% off still leaves me at 3060kg :-(. And I don’t think this is the weight of my specific vehicle with factory options fitted. It is the theoretical minimum.

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[Lenny HB]

The weight on my CofC is definitely the empty weight, at 3220. Taking 5% off still leaves me at 3060kg :-(. And I don’t think this is the weight of my specific vehicle with factory options fitted. It is the theoretical minimum.

They don't give an unladen weight on a C of C it's the MIRO which includes about 188kg of allowances. No manufacture gives unladen weights.

 

[G-RMPS]

They don't give an unladen weight on a C of C it's the MIRO which includes about 188kg of allowances. No manufacture gives unladen weights.

OK, my misunderstanding. The German translation is “ ready to drive mass”.

 

[tonyidle]

Has anybody actually been prosecuted for speeding using this outdated piece of legislation, seems a lot of fuss over nothing to me.

I agree. Working in our favour: there are no Police; cameras are set at the National Speed Limit + whatever. Usually 10% + 2mph = 68mph.

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[G-RMPS]

Gosh, I’ll have to budget more for fuel now

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I am also preparing to have to drop the max weight to 3500 kg next at age 70, and they require a figure of about 3000 kgs as the empty weight , so to stop any mucking about I need to get it lower and pull a damn trailer to put it up again.

 

[Crazylegs]

Has anybody actually been prosecuted for speeding using this outdated piece of legislation, seems a lot of fuss over nothing to me.

It’s worth reminding ourselves that despite issues of weigh being regularly discussed it’s very rare that you read a post from someone who has suffered at the hands of the authorities with regards to this subject in a private vehicle.

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[Lenny HB]

I am also preparing to have to drop the max weight to 3500 kg next at age 70, and they require a figure of about 3000 kgs as the empty weight

Why?
Without a C1 you can't drive a vehicle with a gross weight over 3500 kg, unladen weight has no bearing on it

 

[Larrynwin]

You mean stay at 50 then on ordinary roads? I normally do, but 60 is permitted? according to the cockeyed laws of the land. I do not normally drive with the Registration document which does not say unladen weight OR the certificate of conformity. In fact the logbok came back as revenue weight of 4200 kgs , After I went to all the earache of trying to get it properly upgraded because the muppets at DVLC do not do it properly , as others on here have found out.

I only carry reg doc when over the water but if booked for speeding proof of ulw if under 3050 kg would exonerate you.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Why?
Without a C1 you can't drive a vehicle with a gross weight over 3500 kg, unladen weight has no bearing on it

It needs to be proven to be a viable van to drop the weight down, DVLC want to see a weighbrideg ticket to drop the now heavy weight vehicle to the minimum weight.It was bad enough putting it up but not down . They know that most MH are pretty near the limit and you should be able to show it will still comply and be under the 3500kgs total

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