Water Pump issue to be aware of...

Southdowners

Southdowners

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Concorde Charisma
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Since May 2015
I thought I'd mention our experience last night as I guess some folk will be taking their vehicles ski-ing soon.

We've been touring Scandinavia over the last few weeks and decided to go into Sweden to try and spot some elusive moose. Unbeknown to us the area we visited holds the record for the lowest temperature in Sweden of around -50c.

The temperature dropped to about -22c last night so we kept the heating on inside at 21c. In the morning we found that our water pump had frozen. The pump is located in the garage but right down at floor level. The garage itself was warm as you'd expect but, because the pump is in a recessed area, the heat didn't reach it. It's all OK now as we thawed it out but I thought I'd mention it for those heading to cold regions. We found out this morning that friends of ours who have the same motorhome experienced the same issue in similar temperatures.

I've emailed Concorde to see if they can suggest a remedy.
 
Also if you have a cassette loo if like mine in the cassete area to the LHS there is an exposed water pipe a bit of foam pipe lagging or bubble wrap should help keep it cosy.
 
Southdowners said:
I thought I'd mention our experience last night as I guess some folk will be taking their vehicles ski-ing soon.

We've been touring Scandinavia over the last few weeks and decided to go into Sweden to try and spot some elusive moose. Unbeknown to us the area we visited holds the record for the lowest temperature in Sweden of around -50c.

The temperature dropped to about -22c last night so we kept the heating on inside at 21c. In the morning we found that our water pump had frozen. The pump is located in the garage but right down at floor level. The garage itself was warm as you'd expect but, because the pump is in a recessed area, the heat didn't reach it. It's all OK now as we thawed it out but I thought I'd mention it for those heading to cold regions. We found out this morning that friends of ours who have the same motorhome experienced the same issue in similar temperatures.

I've emailed Concorde to see if they can suggest a remedy.
Click to expand...


Have you checked the Owners' Manual to see what range of ambient temperatures your model is designed for?

Geoff

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Southdowners said:
I thought I'd mention our experience last night as I guess some folk will be taking their vehicles ski-ing soon.

We've been touring Scandinavia over the last few weeks and decided to go into Sweden to try and spot some elusive moose. Unbeknown to us the area we visited holds the record for the lowest temperature in Sweden of around -50c.

The temperature dropped to about -22c last night so we kept the heating on inside at 21c. In the morning we found that our water pump had frozen. The pump is located in the garage but right down at floor level. The garage itself was warm as you'd expect but, because the pump is in a recessed area, the heat didn't reach it. It's all OK now as we thawed it out but I thought I'd mention it for those heading to cold regions. We found out this morning that friends of ours who have the same motorhome experienced the same issue in similar temperatures.

I've emailed Concorde to see if they can suggest a remedy.
Click to expand...
Thats poor design, our Frankia routed the heating ducts next to all the water pipes and waste traps including the pump.
 
Yes, it does appear to be a poor design. There's no point winterising a vehicle to enable it to be used in -30c if the pump doesn't work at that temperature.

We weren't even sure where the pump was and we were talked through how to fix it by a technician on the phone. We were surprised to find it at floor level. If it was positioned higher up I don't think it would have frozen. We've been using it successfully in low temperatures for weeks now it just got too cold for it to handle... but it should have been able to.

The garage itself is very warm but the pump is behind a grille in a recess. We've taken the grille off for the time being to enable the air to circulate more efficiently. Having said that, we've come back into Norway now and are basking in -8c at the moment! Boy was it cold in Sweden... beautiful, but cold. We would have stayed but the pump issue made it too much hassle to contend with.

When I hear back from Concorde I'll let you know what, if anything, they suggest.
 
Yes, the pipes, the garage the underfloor lockers, the double floor which houses the tanks all are very warm and work fine it is just the pump. It's very strange - I can't understand why they haven't thought of that. Had it not been for our friends experiencing the same problem I would think we were doing something wrong - perhaps omitting to turn on additional heating in that area.

I think we'll be fine now though as we're unlikely to experience anything like -22c in Norway! :)

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peterc10 said:
Yep, same as our Hymer. The water pipes for the Alde heating run next to the water pipes.
Click to expand...

What is the lowest temperature you have you been in Peter?

Up until last night we were regularly in temperatures of around -15c and it worked fine. I'm beginning to wonder if we were asking too much of the system.
 
Well I've just had a response from Concorde - so that's a step in the right direction. However, they don't appear to have grasped completely what the issue is. I've responded with further information so, hopefully, we'll find a solution. :giggle:
 
Our Hymer has managed fine down to temps of -25c overnight with no problems. Truma heating running on 240v mains so only 1800w too!

Only problem we had was with the E+P levellers, as on our van they are installed in an external locker so didn’t like being used first thing in the morning until the hydraulic fluid had a chance to warm up a bit (they were ok down to about -15c).

Friends with a Concorde and a Carthago managed OK but the main door locks froze on the Concorde
 
That's interesting Jen... we have a different heating system- ours is Alde but like you we've managed fine and been warm and comfortable.

Our levellers have worked throughout our trip, although the creaking when they go down in the snow is a bit alarming! - Overall we're really impressed with how the vehicle has been in this weather... everything works just fine.... except the bloody pump!
 
Jenben said:
Our Hymer has managed fine down to temps of -25c overnight with no problems. Truma heating running on 240v mains so only 1800w too!

Only problem we had was with the E+P levellers, as on our van they are installed in an external locker so didn’t like being used first thing in the morning until the hydraulic fluid had a chance to warm up a bit (they were ok down to about -15c).

Friends with a Concorde and a Carthago managed OK but the main door locks froze on the Concorde
Click to expand...
EN 1646-1 for motorhomes

This is Hymer's take on what they test

Winterised (grade III)
Phase 1 – cooling down:

The test vehicle is cooled down to -15 °C over a period of at least ten hours. For this, all doors and windows are opened to cool down the vehicle completely.

We have been to Canada before landing at Calgary when its been -35 and the luggage door on the plane was stuck so they had to de-ice it.

The conditions in Calgary and Banff had been down to -40 the car we used had to be plugged in at night (they all do) to keep the engine block and battery warm you see cars driving down the road with a little wire flapping outside the bonnet. Never keep any liquids in the car overnight they will freeze and the bottles can break.

So MoHo's are doing well down to -25

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We were surprised how easy it was to keep the van warm even in really low temps. We were worried about only having blown air heating but have learned it all comes down to how well designed the overall installation is. The important thing is to keep the van warm all the time - lots of vans have issues if you lower the temp setting overnight or turn it off during the day.

Our friends had no problem with their levellers as they have them installed in a heated locker. You can have the fluid changed for an ultra low viscosity oil but then have to change back for the summer. Not worth it as, worst case, the system half raises the jacks then trips out. After a quick system reset they then go all the way up . Advice from SAP was don’t worry about it:-)
 
tonyidle said:
I'm at a loss to understand why so many converters use a diaphragm pump outside the tank. A submersible is quieter, has higher flow rate, is capable of similar pressure, costs less, ......... and doesn't freeze until the tank freezes.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling that the pump has been relocated in the recent models as when we spoke to the technician on the phone (a technician from a Concorde dealer, not Concorde direct) he told us the pump was in with the Alde heating boiler... it wasn't. I assume that it used to be located there. It would be a much more logical place for it to be and warmer too.
 
Jenben said:
We were surprised how easy it was to keep the van warm even in really low temps. We were worried about only having blown air heating but have learned it all comes down to how well designed the overall installation is. The important thing is to keep the van warm all the time - lots of vans have issues if you lower the temp setting overnight or turn it off during the day.

Our friends had no problem with their levellers as they have them installed in a heated locker. You can have the fluid changed for an ultra low viscosity oil but then have to change back for the summer. Not worth it as, worst case, the system half raises the jacks then trips out. After a quick system reset they then go all the way up . Advice from SAP was don’t worry about it:)
Click to expand...

Yes, we have the heating on constantly and everything, except the pump, was fine. The garage where the pump is located is also heated so it's strange that it froze.

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Coolcats said:
EN 1646-1 for motorhomes

This is Hymer's take on what they test
Winterised (grade III)
Phase 1 – cooling down:
The test vehicle is cooled down to -15 °C over a period of at least ten hours. For this, all doors and windows are opened to cool down the vehicle completely.

We have been to Canada before landing at Calgary when its been -35 and the luggage door on the plane was stuck so they had to de-ice it.

The conditions in Calgary and Banff had been down to -40 the car we used had to be plugged in at night (they all do) to keep the engine block and battery warm you see cars driving down the road with a little wire flapping outside the bonnet. Never keep any liquids in the car overnight they will freeze and the bottles can break.

So MoHo's are doing well down to -25
Click to expand...

The cars here also have those engine heating units. When we saw the charging units for them in carparks we thought they were hook ups for motorhomes...

Fortunately, our engine seemed oblivious to the cold and started first time. :giggle:
 
nicholsong said:
Have you checked the Owners' Manual to see what range of ambient temperatures your model is designed for?

Geoff
Click to expand...

Manuals are all at home unfortunately. However, from memory it's -30c.
 
Yep, just checked online... it is temperatures down to -30c
 
Mmmmm! Seems odd that one, ours is in with the Alde boiler on both of the Concordes we have had.


25CC4D45-4BA4-48EE-AE72-B2F4192340B2.jpeg
 
Not very low.
Southdowners said:
What is the lowest temperature you have you been in Peter?

Up until last night we were regularly in temperatures of around -15c and it worked fine. I'm beginning to wonder if we were asking too much of the system.
Click to expand...
We have not gone down that far and doubt we ever will. Our pump is a submersible in the main water tank which is in a heated compartment. Nowhere near as big as a Concorde though .......

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Mikeclaire said:
Mmmmm! Seems odd that one, ours is in with the Alde boiler on both of the Concordes we have had.


View attachment 344035
Click to expand...

Yes that’s the same pump as ours with the transparent inspection chamber but ours is in the garage. Oh well I expect we’ll get it sorted... I know we’re not the only ones to have experienced the freezing issue in the same motorhome as ours.
 
Southdowners said:
I have a feeling that the pump has been relocated in the recent models as when we spoke to the technician on the phone (a technician from a Concorde dealer, not Concorde direct) he told us the pump was in with the Alde heating boiler... it wasn't. I assume that it used to be located there. It would be a much more logical place for it to be and warmer too.
Click to expand...
You're sure he wasn't thinking of the central heating pump?
 
Southdowners looking at the picture put up by Mikeclaire I would say that if is yours is the same your problem will be the outlet pipe from the pump as it goes very close to the locker aluminium frame which may have a thermal break but will not be as well insulated as the floor or wall panels so the pipe needs to be away from the sides, our Flair has the heating pipes running along against the frame, I will add that -12 is as low as we ahbve been, -10 with not heating on was OK for the van anyway but not me.


Martin

Edit Oops reading again yours is in a different pace, anyway its not a good idea having the water pipe too close to the locker frame.
 
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I've just heard back from Concorde. They've offered a solution which we feel happy with. We can either have the work carried out at the Concorde factory or our dealership when we return to the UK. Wherever we decide to have the work done Concorde will cover the cost.

I'm pleased with the outcome.

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