Wanting tow car

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Check in classifieds top left of banner, open drop down box. Sorry nothing there, there was a very nice Fiat Abarth on last week
 
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Robbiechausson788 said:
Any tow cars for sale in northwest area ideally ?
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Have you checked your Chauson is ok to tow. L bought a Chauson 774ga only to find it has a towing capacity of around 400kg I was well pissed off as when I ordered the van at the Nec I told the salesman that we would be towing a car and was not told of the restrictions.
 
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DuxDeluxe said:
…..or look at towbars2towcars as they always have toads ready to go
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Yer I’ve looked on there thanks . I have a fiesta for my job so was just looking at LNB and they do trailers to suit. Was thinking that if possible would be the cheapest option knowing it wouldn’t be getting used regularly. Thoughts ?
vkr15s said:
Have you checked your Chauson is ok to tow. L bought a Chauson 774ga only to find it has a towing capacity of around 400kg I was well pissed off as when I ordered the van at the Nec I told the salesman that we would be towing a car and was not told of the restrictions.
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yer I’ve got a certified from the company that fitted the towbar as he said you needed it if going abroad 🤷‍♂️ Would of ideally got an A frame fitted to my fiesta st line x edition if I could find someone to do it.
 
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Robbiechausson788 said:
Would of ideally got an A frame fitted to my fiesta st line x edition if I could find someone to do it.
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Towbars2 tow cars converted my last toad which was a Fiesta

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DuxDeluxe said:
Towbars2 tow cars converted my last toad which was a Fiesta
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I’ve just messaged them thanks. I’ve seen fiestas before being towed and didn’t think there would be a problem. Maybe it was just the company in stoke that was unsure about doing it but they said it couldn’t be done.
 
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Robbiechausson788 said:
I’ve just messaged them thanks. I’ve seen fiestas before being towed and didn’t think there would be a problem. Maybe it was just the company in stoke that was unsure about doing it but they said it couldn’t be done.
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Mine was a 1.6 diesel so quite heavy but the van could tow 2 tonnes. Not sure about the new model fiesta.

Sometimes better to give them a phone call
 
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vkr15s said:
Have you checked your Chauson is ok to tow. L bought a Chauson 774ga only to find it has a towing capacity of around 400kg I was well pissed off as when I ordered the van at the Nec I told the salesman that we would be towing a car and was not told of the restrictions.
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You should check the VIN plate! It overrules anything a salesman might tell you…. 😏
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WEIGHTS & VIN PLATES!

The information here is based on a motorhome conversion of a commercial chassis but it holds true for virtually any vehicle.VIN stands for Vehicle Identification Number.It's a unique 17 digit number which includes coded information such as Country of Assembly, the Manufacturer, the Body Style...
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gus-lopez said:
I assumed, wrongly , that we were talking about a cert for any toad as there is no requirement to carry anything relating to having a tow bar fitted to allow you to tow?
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Perhaps we are talking cross purposes here…. Tow bars need to be type approved since about 2010, but you are right about toads in European countries. A big no

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Robbiechausson788 said:
yer I’ve got a certified from the company that fitted the towbar as he said you needed it if going abroad 🤷‍♂️ Would of ideally got an A frame fitted to my fiesta st line x edition if I could find someone to do it.
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You won't need a certificate for the tow bar as it's not required here which is where the MH is registered.

As for a toad, you can't legally tow it in some countries in Europe so if you do intend to take it abroad a trailer will be needed.
 
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This is very interesting. We have a Peugeot 107 converted by Towbars2Towcars. The docs provided include a 'Declaration of Conformity', to 98/37/EC Machinery Directive, 2004/108/EC EMC Directive, 2006/95/EC Low Voltage Directive. Within the doc also EC Directive 98/12/EEC and C&U Regulations 15, 18 & 86A and issued Brussels and London. The pack also includes explanations of conformity in French, Spanish, Portuguese and German. The doc is signed 25/10/2022.
The pack also states that the tow car is for personal use whilst staying at a campsite and will be returning to the UK with the Motorhome at the end of the Holiday. Further it states that, under the EC harmonisation agreement any vehicle approved for use in any EC Country is allowed passage in any EC Country for a period of 6 months.
Ok, well the important factor is that just fitting an 'A' frame to your car is not sufficient. The car must be converted to, in our case weighing 850kg, braking applied via an electronic braking sensor in a proportional manner, to exceed 50% efficiency. A snatch wire in the unlikely event of detachment that will apply the brakes and all lighting required to be in place through the towbar socket hook up. A number plate of the towing vehicle to obscure the towed vehicles and a board with 'On Tow', with 2 reflective triangle. All this supplied by the conversion Company. At this years show they are pricing between £3500 and £4000 to supply the 'A' frame and do the necessary conversion on your supplied car.
Whether Brexit has altered this I don't know.
Incidentally if considering fitting an 'A' frame, go for the ones with the telescopic arms. It makes life so much easier when connecting to the ball. The arms lock solid after a quick pull forward.
 
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Tricky One said:
This is very interesting. We have a Peugeot 107 converted by Towbars2Towcars. The docs provided include a 'Declaration of Conformity', to 98/37/EC Machinery Directive, 2004/108/EC EMC Directive, 2006/95/EC Low Voltage Directive. Within the doc also EC Directive 98/12/EEC and C&U Regulations 15, 18 & 86A and issued Brussels and London. The pack also includes explanations of conformity in French, Spanish, Portuguese and German. The doc is signed 25/10/2022.
The pack also states that the tow car is for personal use whilst staying at a campsite and will be returning to the UK with the Motorhome at the end of the Holiday. Further it states that, under the EC harmonisation agreement any vehicle approved for use in any EC Country is allowed passage in any EC Country for a period of 6 months.
Ok, well the important factor is that just fitting an 'A' frame to your car is not sufficient. The car must be converted to, in our case weighing 850kg, braking applied via an electronic braking sensor in a proportional manner, to exceed 50% efficiency. A snatch wire in the unlikely event of detachment that will apply the brakes and all lighting required to be in place through the towbar socket hook up. A number plate of the towing vehicle to obscure the towed vehicles and a board with 'On Tow', with 2 reflective triangle. All this supplied by the conversion Company. At this years show they are pricing between £3500 and £4000 to supply the 'A' frame and do the necessary conversion on your supplied car.
Whether Brexit has altered this I don't know.
Incidentally if considering fitting an 'A' frame, go for the ones with the telescopic arms. It makes life so much easier when connecting to the ball. The arms lock solid after a quick pull forward.
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The UK is no longer an EC country so the above stuff doesn't apply. It probably never did as A frames are not approved in the UK, merely overlooked.
 
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Reallyretired said:
The UK is no longer an EC country so the above stuff doesn't apply. It probably never did as A frames are not approved in the UK, merely overlooked.
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The 'A' frame is legal and approved by VOSA in the UK providing the modifications have been done to the towed vehicle which is then classed as a Trailer. It is not now legal to simply strap an 'A' frame to the front of a car, as was the usual practice.
 
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Reallyretired said:
The UK is no longer an EC country so the above stuff doesn't apply. It probably never did as A frames are not approved in the UK, merely overlooked.
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That does not mean an A Frame cannot be used within the UK as A Frames are not required to have type approval, but reading between the lines its best that when using an A Frame the towing vehicle and towed meets the requirements of both Vehicle and Trailer this is .Gov's position on it

The same document states:

Use of A-frame outside UK​

The views expressed above are only applicable for the UK. We understand that these view are not shared in other European countries and we would not recommend use of an A-frame outside the UK without some investigation of the rules that apply in the relevant country. We are unable to comment on, or enter into correspondence on, the situation in other countries as this will be governed by their domestic laws, together with the Vienna Convention.

We would remind users that the views expressed above relate solely to the technical requirements for a motor vehicle when being used with an A-frame. Users should satisfy themselves that they comply with all other aspects of road traffic law that may apply whether the towed vehicle is viewed as a trailer or as a motor vehicle.

All of which is interesting comments

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Tricky One said:
The 'A' frame is legal and approved by VOSA in the UK providing the modifications have been done to the towed vehicle which is then classed as a Trailer. It is not legal to simply strap an 'A' frame to the front of a car, as was the usual practice.
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There is no type approval for an A frame according to .Gov its a grey area where if you are fitting one make sure it meets Vehicle and Trailer regs
 
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Not this hairy chestnut again ... it is ILLEGAL to tow one vehicle with another in many parts of mainland Europe, putting an A-frame on does NOT stop it being a vehicle no matter how many things you do to make it more trailer-like. In the UK we can often do things like this unless they are specifically banned/unlawful etc but abroad it is usually the opposite, ie you can ONLY do it if there is some law/agreement/rule/permission which specifically allows it.

I'm just gonna go and make some 🍿 and settle down for the 'debate'.
 
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Tricky One said:
This is very interesting. We have a Peugeot 107 converted by Towbars2Towcars. The docs provided include a 'Declaration of Conformity', to 98/37/EC Machinery Directive, 2004/108/EC EMC Directive, 2006/95/EC Low Voltage Directive. Within the doc also EC Directive 98/12/EEC and C&U Regulations 15, 18 & 86A and issued Brussels and London. The pack also includes explanations of conformity in French, Spanish, Portuguese and German. The doc is signed 25/10/2022.
The pack also states that the tow car is for personal use whilst staying at a campsite and will be returning to the UK with the Motorhome at the end of the Holiday. Further it states that, under the EC harmonisation agreement any vehicle approved for use in any EC Country is allowed passage in any EC Country for a period of 6 months.
Ok, well the important factor is that just fitting an 'A' frame to your car is not sufficient. The car must be converted to, in our case weighing 850kg, braking applied via an electronic braking sensor in a proportional manner, to exceed 50% efficiency. A snatch wire in the unlikely event of detachment that will apply the brakes and all lighting required to be in place through the towbar socket hook up. A number plate of the towing vehicle to obscure the towed vehicles and a board with 'On Tow', with 2 reflective triangle. All this supplied by the conversion Company. At this years show they are pricing between £3500 and £4000 to supply the 'A' frame and do the necessary conversion on your supplied car.
Whether Brexit has altered this I don't know.
Incidentally if considering fitting an 'A' frame, go for the ones with the telescopic arms. It makes life so much easier when connecting to the ball. The arms lock solid after a quick pull forward.
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This is confirmation that you can’t believe everything the a-frame suppliers tell you, or the paperwork they give you.
a ‘Declaration of Conformity’ is NOT a certificate of conformity. They are NOT issued in London and/or Brussels, they are a self declaration that their product conforms. Sadly, it doesn’t.

98/37/EC Machinery directive specifically excludes vehicles and their trailers.

2006/95/EC Low Voltage Directive is only applicable to DC circuits between 75 volts and 1500 volts. (Not 12 volt systems).

Countries can (and do) have their own national laws regarding the towing of motorised vehicles. There is no automatic exclusion for 6 months or any other period. (See the previous comments ref. Questions for written answers in the EU Parliament).

There is no requirement for ANY signage, merely reflective triangles.

Their documents issued in other languages claim the a-frame is CE approved. In fact, none are, there are no standards for a-frames.

The paperwork is purely a marketing exercise. …. ….. 😡
 
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Tricky One said:
The 'A' frame is legal and approved by VOSA in the UK providing the modifications have been done to the towed vehicle which is then classed as a Trailer. It is not now legal to simply strap an 'A' frame to the front of a car, as was the usual practice.
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An a-frame has never been proven legal in the U.K. and is NOT approved by VOSA (which hasn’t existed since 2014).

There is no approval procedure for a-frames, either in the U.K. or the EU.
The only country I’m aware of that has a procedure in place is New Zealand https://nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/warrants-and-certificates/vehicle-equipment/a-frame-towing/ (though there may be others).
 
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