Very light on front end. Poor traction. (2 Viewers)

[SalcombeRegis]

I have an Adria Matrix 600sl axess. A coach built on the fiat ducatto chassis. 2021. 4.4T. I have air bags on the rear and upgraded front suspension. Good tyres and monitor pressure regularly.

I love most things about this van but the big minus for me is what appears to be the lack of traction of the front end. It takes very little to spin the front wheels on the slightest of gradients or gravel surface.

Is this normal for all vans or specific to Fiat? Do the A class vans have a similar issue?

Had a tricky situation in Spain where I lost traction and could not go up so I had to reverse on a sharp bend to turn round and find another route.

Add a wet road into the mix and it can be a squeaky bum moment.

Look forward to hearing your views/experiences.

 

[Carpmart]

If it's between the axles, the load will be distributed between them (although not necessarily evenly).

Yes…. But, I carry a LOT of weight in the garage behind the rear axle. The balance of the vehicle is fundamentally better with a 1/3rd of a ton of water on board. It transfers the balance of the vehicle forward.

 

[poppycamper]

It depends where your freshwater tanks are though. In my case, the main one is centre/forward of the chassis. Full this gives me 350kg loading with a front axle bias, which is very useful for weight distribution… Put it this way, if I run empty of water, I’m definitely overweight on the rear axle.

Sorry cannot get my head around that one.. how does less weight near front then overload rear axle?

 

[Carpmart]

Sorry cannot get my head around that one.. how does less weight near front then overload rear axle?

Poorly worded/articulated by me! It changes the balance.

See the post above yours #31 which explains what I actually meant!

 

[Lenny HB]

It depends where your freshwater tanks are though. In my case, the main one is centre/forward of the chassis. Full this gives me 350kg loading with a front axle bias, which is very useful for weight distribution… Put it this way, if I run empty of water, I’m definitely overweight on the rear axle.

Not surprised having seen what you carry in your garage.

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[Lenny HB]

Sorry cannot get my head around that one.. how does less weight near front then overload rear axle?

Pendulum effect.

 

[poppycamper]

Poorly worded/articulated by me! It changes the balance.

See the post above yours #31 which explains what I actually meant!

Yes I can understand that the balance changes....
But I would question Lenny HB pendulum effect is the correct term...
Surely pendulum means the swinging to and fro or back and forth...@

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes I can understand that the balance changes....
But I would question Lenny HB pendulum effect is the correct term...
Surely pendulum means the swinging to and fro or back and forth...@

Put weight on the front end the rear goes higher & lighter, put weight on the back end the front goes higher & lighter I would say that is a pendulum effect.

 

[poppycamper]

Put weight on the front end the rear goes higher & lighter, put weight on the back end the front goes higher & lighter I would say that is a pendulum effect.

Yes agree but that is in a static situation.and not truly a pendulum motion.
IMV the explanation of "pendulum" is where, for instance, you brake hard, weight transfera to front then returns to rear and sets up a pendulum effect with vehicle rocking backwards and forwards or similarily cornering too fast.. vehicle leans over and then returns leaning the other way until stability return... rocking side to side.

 

[Millcourt]

Put weight on the front end the rear goes higher & lighter, put weight on the back end the front goes higher & lighter I would say that is a pendulum effect.

I suppose you could describe the effect as a pendulum effect, but I think the concept of “Centre of Gravity” better describes the consequences of shifting the weight distribution…..as mentioned in my earlier posting (No. 13 above).

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[Lazyboy]

See-Saw

 

[Guigsy]

Yes…. But, I carry a LOT of weight in the garage behind the rear axle. The balance of the vehicle is fundamentally better with a 1/3rd of a ton of water on board. It transfers the balance of the vehicle forward.

I agree that adding water to the middle of the van will move the balance forwards, giving more traction. But it's still going to add weight to the rear axle.

 

[suavecarve]

I can understand the better ride with the water and the pendulum/seesaw/centre of gravity point but I don't get the "if I add 350 kgs to the middle/front then weight comes off my rear end"
The tank would have to be in front of the front axle for all the weight of the water to counter balance a losing of weight from the rear axle.
Or it does in my head

 

[Carpmart]

I agree that adding water to the middle of the van will move the balance forwards, giving more traction. But it's still going to add weight to the rear axle.

I’m RWD… my point is it’s just better balanced with more weight on the front…

Look at it from a percentage perspective not absolute weight.

5T rear 2.3T front. If I add 350kg in mid (forward biased) mounted water tanks, then this mass adds a greater than 2x percentage increase in weight over the front axle, which makes the whole MoHo feel more balanced.

 

[Guigsy]

I’m RWD… my point is it’s just better balanced with more weight on the front…

Look at it from a percentage perspective not absolute weight.

5T rear 2.3T front. If I add 350kg in mid (forward biased) mounted water tanks, then this mass adds a greater than 2x percentage increase in weight over the front axle, which makes the whole MoHo feel more balanced.

You did say that adding load stops you being overloaded on the axle. Which only happens if the load is overhanging one end (e.g. adding weight to the garage can unload your front axle).

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[Carpmart]

You did say that adding load stops you being overloaded on the axle. Which only happens if the load is overhanging one end (e.g. adding weight to the garage can unload your front axle).

Yes, the weight in the rear leverages, so the front feels lighter.

I explained my poor articulation in post #33.

 

[bigtwin]

The tank would have to be in front of the front axle for all the weight of the water to counter balance a losing of weight from the rear axle.
Or it does in my head

There’s nothing wrong with your thinking.

Ian

 

[headlight]

I greatly improved the ride/handling/grip on my coach built via a combination of 3 things.
Changed tyres, altered tyre pressures after weighing the van and moved as much weight forward as possible.
On their own each alteration improved things a bit but all 3 together transformed the van.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

It depends where your freshwater tanks are though. In my case, the main one is centre/forward of the chassis. Full this gives me 350kg loading with a front axle bias, which is very useful for weight distribution… Put it this way, if I run empty of water, I’m definitely overweight on the rear axle.

Ooooh, what a big one you have 350ltrs, I have tank envy, mines a measely 100ltrs.Same principle though and better to be looking at than for.
Mike.

 

[Carpmart]

Ooooh, what a big one you have 350ltrs, I have tank envy, mines a measely 100ltrs.Same principle though and better to be looking at than for.
Mike.

Thanks Mike, I do have a big one!

Ive actually a second fresh tank of 140l, (jet wash tank!) giving a smidge under 500l or 1/2 a ton of water!

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[IRHP]

Yes to all of that.

I have taken it over a weigh-bridge fully laden with a full tank of fuel and just me on board. The axel weights all came in within what I would consider evenly under limits with surplus capacity - so not overloaded.

I always try and spread the weight trying to avoid the heavy items in the garage.

I think the advice on tyres is good advice but any other pointers is very

2 bikes and a full tank sitting

Yes to all of that.

I have taken it over a weigh-bridge fully laden with a full tank of fuel and just me on board. The axel weights all came in within what I would consider evenly under limits with surplus capacity - so not overloaded.

I always try and spread the weight trying to avoid the heavy items in the garage.

I think the advice on tyres is good advice but any other pointers is very welcome.

Put weight on the front end the rear goes higher & lighter, put weight on the back end the front goes higher & lighter I would say that is a pendulum effect.

More like see saw

 

[fred_jb]

With long wide vehicles and uneven surfaces you can easily get in a situation where one of the driven wheels is almost suspended, being held up by the others, either by being in a dip or on the uphill side of a tilted vehicle.

While it won't literally be not touching the ground, in this kind of situation a wheel can be seriously unloaded, and therefore lacking in traction. The big problem then is that without a locking diff, if one driven wheel loses traction and spins you will then lose drive in the other driven wheel and be stuck.

I had a situation like this once when trying to get up a steep and seriously tilted driveway to our son's rented house. All the weight transferred to the downhill side of the vehicle and the uphill front wheel started to spin. I had to roll back and put a mat down in the critical spot and then take a run at it which worked, but only just!

I guess the point here is that you need to be wary of steep uphills, but also of situations where the van is seriously tilted from side to side.