Underslung LPG tank problem after 5 yrs?

[Mad dog]

I'm 5 years on from fitting my underslung tank & all has been fine until recently when I started having problems with our Truma 6 boiler. Sometimes when it lights it makes a whoooopf sound often coming up with a gas supply error message on the Truma panel.

I did fit an inline filter before the Truma crash regulator, this has collected a bit of oil in the past, but was clean. I changed the filter insert anyway, but still the fault persisted. It was suggested it was probably the regulator that was gummed up, so I changed that (expensive blighters!). It's better, but is still causing occasional problems. So. I've been in contact with a Truma engineer & he suspects it's the refillable tank, saying that they can put a mix of butane in with the propane?? He's suggested running it off an ordinary cylinder for a bit, which I have. So far it seems to run fine with an ordinary cylinder...

Now, I'm at a bit of a loss? What can be wrong with my underslung tank, how can it run for 5yrs perfectly, but now cause a problem. Fridge & hob work fine.

Hoping you might have some ideas pls?! Cheers

 

[Landy Andy]

I can’t see why your tank has anything to do with your problem. Your tank is just a vessel for carrying the gas.

From what you say above your tank contains a mix of gas that your boiler doesn’t like. Where did you last fill your tank? How long ago did you fill your tank?

 

[Mad dog]

I can’t see why your tank has anything to do with your problem. Your tank is just a vessel for carrying the gas.

From what you say above your tank contains a mix of gas that your boiler doesn’t like. Where did you last fill your tank? How long ago did you fill your tank?

That's what I thought Andy, until I started to run it off a cylinder & it seems to run ok.

I've topped it up at various places the last few times, once in the Midlands near Hinckley (odd place, they wanted the money before I filled up!), then I topped up in France.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

If France was the last place then most probable that did contain more butane than propane which is ok for the hob etc but not the boiler for some reason.
You need to bite the bullet and empty the tank and refill with a uk based propane or just use it up.then check it again.

 

[Pausim]

Truma Combi boilers are supposed to run on either propane or butane. In cold weather butane may not work but otherwise it should be ok.

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[Mad dog]

If France was the last place then most probable that did contain more butane than propane which is ok for the hob etc but not the boiler for some reason.
You need to bite the bullet and empty the tank and refill with a uk based propane or just use it up.then check it again.

Thanks Jim. I'm pretty sure I've had this over several tanks. If it was mucky gas, I should have seen something in my filter. If it is the wromg mix of gas, is there a way knowing/testing?

It's doing it less since I changed the regulator. My only other thought is if a pickup pipe in the tank has dropped off or something?

 

[Mad dog]

Truma Combi boilers are supposed to run on either propane or butane. In cold weather butane may not work but otherwise it should be ok.

Interesting.... It's only been happening of late in the warm weather.

 

[Lenny HB]

That's what I thought Andy, until I started to run it off a cylinder & it seems to run ok.

I've topped it up at various places the last few times, once in the Midlands near Hinckley (odd place, they wanted the money before I filled up!), then I topped up in France.

If you have only been filling in the UK it will be propane.
So not likely to be the gas I'm wondering if there is some crud in the tank that is partly blocking the thake off point. Trumer Combi's require a high flow rate so hob fridge etc., work but Combi doesn't.

 

[Mad dog]

If you have only been filling in the UK it will be propane.
So not likely to be the gas I'm wondering if there is some crud in the tank that is partly blocking the thake off point. Trumer Combi's require a high flow rate so hob fridge etc., work but Combi doesn't.

That could be feasible Lenny thank you. I'm not sure how I could clean it out though?! Most of the gas in there is UK sourced, I topped it up in France last fill, but it didn't need much. I've filled across Europe previously, Scandinavia, Croatia, baltic states.

 

[Lenny HB]

Basildog any ideas

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[Fat Albert]

@basilfog any ideas

Basildog
fat fingers lenny?

 

[Lenny HB]

Basildog
fat fingers lenny?

Edited

 

[Pausim]

Edited

Basilfog was more fun.

 

[Mad dog]

I keep popping out & firing up the Truma off the underslung tank & at the moment I just can't replicate it struggling to light. It did it once over the weekend whilst we were away on a slight slope (tank is nearly full). It does make me wonder if Lenny is right & it's some sludge/debris moving around?

 

[Basildog]

I keep popping out & firing up the Truma off the underslung tank & at the moment I just can't replicate it struggling to light. It did it once over the weekend whilst we were away on a slight slope (tank is nearly full). It does make me wonder if Lenny is right & it's some sludge/debris moving around?

All these so called gas engineers / fitters love to blame everything on refillable cylinders or tanks .
Most likely scenario is that somehow the system over pressurised in the hot weather.
This could have been made worse by the fact you say the tank was nearly full and on a slope .
It’s not impossible that a small amount of liquid state lpg got to your regulator, now the weather has cooled and the pressure has dropped it will have calmed down .
The dip tube in an Underslung LPG vapour tank is at the top of the tank so won’t pick up debris, heavy ends etc .
All LPG has some heavy ends (oily substances) in it , personally I have never bothered with filters but know it makes some people feel better, we still see oiled up regulators even with a filter .
My suspicion is like most modern equipment if anything is out of it’s set parameters it’s another bloody fault code .

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[Mad dog]

All these so called gas engineers / fitters love to blame everything on refillable cylinders or tanks .
Most likely scenario is that somehow the system over pressurised in the hot weather.
This could have been made worse by the fact you say the tank was nearly full and on a slope .
It’s not impossible that a small amount of liquid state lpg got to your regulator, now the weather has cooled and the pressure has dropped it will have calmed down .
The dip tube in an Underslung LPG vapour tank is at the top of the tank so won’t pick up debris, heavy ends etc .
All LPG has some heavy ends (oily substances) in it , personally I have never bothered with filters but know it makes some people feel better, we still see oiled up regulators even with a filter .
My suspicion is like most modern equipment if anything is out of it’s set parameters it’s another bloody fault code .

Thanks Basildog, I had big problems with it a couple of months ago when the weather was nice, but not that hot. That's when I changed the regulator. Interesting what you say, that it picks up from the top. I have had some strange readings on the gauge (external LED) & the needle gauge on the tank itself), just makes me wonder if that's related? Fairly sure oil had make it to the regulator, despite the filter, but it did catch some. Those twin crash sensor Truma regulators aren't cheap at the best part of £200! It was 8 months over it's 5yr warranty!

 

[Basildog]

Thanks Basildog, I had big problems with it a couple of months ago when the weather was nice, but not that hot. That's when I changed the regulator. Interesting what you say, that it picks up from the top. I have had some strange readings on the gauge (external LED) & the needle gauge on the tank itself), just makes me wonder if that's related? Fairly sure oil had make it to the regulator, despite the filter, but it did catch some. Those twin crash sensor Truma regulators aren't cheap at the best part of £200! It was 8 months over it's 5yr warranty!

No warranty for oil in a regulator.
Most are now 12 months for manufacturing defects, that doesn’t cover contamination.

 

[Mad dog]

No warranty for oil in a regulator.

Out of interest, can they be cleaned out?

 

[Silver-Fox]

If it is the wromg mix of gas, is there a way knowing/testing?

Sniff it and lick it


Sorry couldn’t resist, building trade site humour.
I know I’ll get my coat and don’t do the above

 

[Silver-Fox]

All these so called gas engineers / fitters love to blame everything on refillable cylinders or tanks .
Most likely scenario is that somehow the system over pressurised in the hot weather.
This could have been made worse by the fact you say the tank was nearly full and on a slope .
It’s not impossible that a small amount of liquid state lpg got to your regulator, now the weather has cooled and the pressure has dropped it will have calmed down .
The dip tube in an Underslung LPG vapour tank is at the top of the tank so won’t pick up debris, heavy ends etc .
All LPG has some heavy ends (oily substances) in it , personally I have never bothered with filters but know it makes some people feel better, we still see oiled up regulators even with a filter .
My suspicion is like most modern equipment if anything is out of it’s set parameters it’s another bloody fault code .

What a precise and informative post, I commend you

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[jezport]

If the boiler went to fault it would have a flash code to read

 

[Mad dog]

If the boiler went to fault it would have a flash code to read

It did, various gas supply error messages, ES17H, etc.

 

[jezport]

It did, various gas supply error messages, ES17H, etc.

It's the flash code on the boiler that tells more details.

 

[Clive Mott]

The boiler should work on anything between 100% propane to 100% butane. That has been the design brief for many years now. There are compromises such as butane stops evaporating below freezing but at warmer ambients produces more heat than propane at the same gas pressure. The fault code should be your guidance.

 

[Zentex]

When I bought my camper the LPG tank had rusted Very badly - I would highly recommend to any with an underslung tank to prime it and paint it with a couple of coats of red Hammerite paint to give it longevity. ALSO the valves and connecting equipment only has a life of 10 years from what I was told so make a note to change that every decade. Mine didnt come with a guage so next time I will have one fitted but so far I am only using about 5L per year as the fridge which is a high user of lpg is electric and if I am wild camping I now have a stand up wash every other day to save water which is the thing you often struggle to re-fill when you are offgrid.

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[Mad dog]

Well, I've had mine running back on the bulk underslung tank for a couple of days now, I keep running the hot water off & it's behaving perfectly again! I had to run some new brake discs & pads in, so it's had a run around, still ok.

I'll be at an lpg point next week so I'll try & use as much up as possible & refill it afresh. I'll update if the situation changes. Don't you just love intermittent faults!!

Cheers everyone

 

[Mad dog]

Update -

So now the Truma 6 has started to error frequently on the underslung tank, but not on the traditional cylinder. I keep switching between them with the dual regulator.

I tried to speak to the LPG Shop in Leicester where I had it from, but their main chap is away till next week. I'm going out to have the van MOT'd today where there is also an LPG station. Tank is 3/4 full, I'm wondering about letting all the contents out & putting a drop in & testing it again.

I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Landy Andy]

You can’t just “let the contents out”. That would not be very safe, especially at a garage, or public areas.

 

[Mad dog]

You can’t just “let the contents out”. That would not be very safe, especially at a garage, or public areas.

It's not something I want to do, it'll be here at home if I do. But if it's dirty gas that's the problem, what else can I do, except leave the hob on for several days?!

 

[Mad dog]

So, I emptied the tank, which you have to do slowly else it freezes up! I put 10.litres as a test in at my closest LPG point & guess what - it's still playing up

I'll ring the LPG Shop next week, but I'm really struggling to work out what's wrong. The only other thing I've noticed is that when the gas is running through up near the regulator it's quite noisy? I'm not sure it used to do this, but I can't be certain as it's in the gas cupboard so normally muted.

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