UKIP on Home Education (1 Viewer)

[Jim]

UKIP on Home Education

- The Government wants to nationalise our children and control home education.

 

[hilldweller]

I must say that when I've seen MHs doing this I do wonder how the kids are going to learn to react to other kids. My youngest grandchild is 2 and already goes to activity groups and soon he'll be on a regular part time course.

I'm not saying regulate against it but I think it's better for the kids to mix as soon as possible with a large group.

 

[bigfoot]

I cant see it happening, there is no obvious revenue.
Beware Comrades they will nationalise fresh air soon!!!

 

[scotjimland]

I must say that when I've seen MHs doing this I do wonder how the kids are going to learn to react to other kids. My youngest grandchild is 2 and already goes to activity groups and soon he'll be on a regular part time course.

I'm not saying regulate against it but I think it's better for the kids to mix as soon as possible with a large group.

Sorry, but the issue isn't whether home educating is a good or bad... that is for another debate and best discussed by those who have experience of both systems..

The issue is

Freedom Of Choice ... big brother telling you what to do, more control of what kids learn.. or not as the case may be.. they are certainly not interested in the quality of home education..

 

[hilldweller]

Freedom Of Choice ... big brother telling you what to do, more control of what kids learn.. or not as the case may be.. they are certainly not interested in the quality of home education..

But it's so difficult to say they do not have a point, what would you do if you came across a kid with little education. Say "that is the parent's choice" or "that kid's life is being ruined". How about "that kid is being set up to become a terrorist" or "that kid is being brought up in the family religion". Minefield.

Close relative to this is child abuse. Now you're not going to say a word against that are you

Bottom line is that it's a soft target, "they" have to be seen to do something for their money and here is a nice easy option. There might be a whole 100 kids in the whole UK disadvantaged but what the hell We Are Doing Something.

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[Jim]

But it's so difficult to say they do not have a point, what would you do if you came across a kid with little education. Say "that is the parent's choice" or "that kid's life is being ruined". How about "that kid is being set up to become a terrorist" or "that kid is being brought up in the family religion". Minefield.

Close relative to this is child abuse. Now you're not going to say a word against that are you

Bottom line is that it's a soft target, "they" have to be seen to do something for their money and here is a nice easy option. There might be a whole 100 kids in the whole UK disadvantaged but what the hell We Are Doing Something.

There are thousands of kids in Home Education not hundreds, (the vast majority for very good reasons) If someone is going to ruin a kids life they will do it where they home educate or not.

 

[Jim]

I saw a recent letter that a HELEN CRITCHELL wrote to a newspaper. I wholeheartedly agree with what she has to say.

Home education 'demonised' by Government

THE recent stab by Baroness Delyth Morgan at demonising what I would consider the last bastion of hope for children these days - home education - and the subsequent take-up of the subject by the NSPCC (Jeremy Vine Show, Radio 2) has caused me to put pen to paper.

To send your child to state school these days is risking the deterioration of any standards you hope your child may aspire to, along with any hope that your influence in their early years will prevail.

With childhood being driven by rampant consumerism, media pressure to fawn over celebrity status, youth culture despising high academic achievement, schools obsessed with league tables, teaching to test and gearing up to the LCD (lowest common denominator), with bullying, violence and teacher-abuse rife, and one in five children leaving school unable to read and write I am surprised that more parents don't opt to keep their children at home.

To suggest that home educators could use the experience to their own sexually-abusive ends is appalling at a time when no section of society is free from the tainted suggestion - fuelled by media frenzy - that anyone giving their time to children must have 'a problem' in this area.

As a result children are being left by the wayside, starved of nurture, compassion, love and societal boundaries given them by anyone older than themselves.

Home education is not the easy option and is a decision that isn't taken lightly by parents. Schools are a hot-bed for pressure to be a 'chav', not be academically successful, partake in sexual activities at a young age and to conform with a youth culture that is becoming more threatening by the day.

To send your child to state school nowadays is taking the sanctity of childhood out of the hands of parents and putting it into the hands of a society that does nothing to protect the integrity of childhood and everything to promote the demonization of adults who want to nurture children.

Reading Ed Balls's statement: "This is no time for excuses - I want every child to go to a good school and that means every school getting above 30 per cent" (he means five good GCSEs including maths and English). One can't help but think that, if 30 per cent is considered 'good', then God help those 70 per cent of children who aren't getting even a good education, let alone a childhood that stabilises them for life.

 

[billym]

Thanks Jim

All good home educators ensure their children mix, usually with peers and kids of
other ages, not to mention adults with whom they have actual conversations ! The notion of sitting at the kitchen table with mum for 6 hours a day is simply not reality.




Hilldweller I cannot follow your post about child abuse. You've been reading too
much government propoganda me thinks.

I would also ask hilldweller where he has met motorhomers home educating their kids
because in 9 years of doing just that all over Europe we have met no more than a
handful.
It is a shame you did not hear Janie Lee Grace, a broadcaster , on the radio on Sunday.
She home educates her 4 kids and spoke so eloquently on the subject that I expect
many who heard it may comsider doing it themselves.

Link Removed

The Government hate it as they can't control it. Long may it survive.:thumb:

 

[hilldweller]

Hilldweller I cannot follow your post about child abuse. You've been reading too much government propoganda me thinks.

I would also ask hilldweller where he has met motorhomers home educating their kids
because in 9 years of doing just that all over Europe we have met no more than a
handful.

If the state is watching children to detect child abuse then it's little different to watching them to see if they are being educated. One is, I assume, perfectly acceptable, the other it would seem not so to people in this thread.

I haven't met anyone educating their children away from school.

I have been watching my two granddaughters being given an excellent education in Stonehouse in Scotland. There is a wonderful community atmosphere to the whole village with good education in school and masses of extra curricular opportunities out of school. I have expressed an honest opinion that a child educated out of the system might be disadvantaged compared to this benchmark.

Of course there are places where they can only dream of such facilities so what is the answer there ? Self educate ? Improve the facilities ?

 

[hilldweller]

>> There might be a whole 100 kids in the whole UK disadvantaged but what the hell We Are Doing Something.

There are thousands of kids in Home Education not hundreds, (the vast majority for very good reasons) If someone is going to ruin a kids life they will do it where they home educate or not.

Clarification: I meant that there may be only 100 being home educated badly but it's still enough opportunity for the politician find A Cause, create a load of paperwork and cover himself/herself in glory.

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[thehutchies]

I must say that when I've seen MHs doing this I do wonder how the kids are going to learn to react to other kids. My youngest grandchild is 2 and already goes to activity groups and soon he'll be on a regular part time course.

I'm not saying regulate against it but I think it's better for the kids to mix as soon as possible with a large group.

Ah, Hilldweller,

After my eldest child's first morning at pre-school, we were playing around and he scratched his nails down my arm. I asked him why he had done that and he told me that that was what his all of new friends did.

After his third morning, when I asked him what he had been doing, he told me that if a girl is playing with a toy that a boy wants, the boy can push the girl over and take the toy.

What kind of reaction to other kids are you in favour of?

And if 'it's better for the kids to mix as soon as possible with a large group', I would agree but would add that the group should not be made up of 30 kids of the same age, same background, same beliefs.

It's a big and varied world that my kids will be a part of.

 

[hilldweller]

Ah, Hilldweller,
What kind of reaction to other kids are you in favour of?
It's a big and varied world that my kids will be a part of.

Kids are little horrors. They have to learn how to interact and what it reasonable behaviour. Now if educated at home are you thinking that they would not have to go through this ? I don't know. It is an attractive thought. I do know humans are incredibly subtle creatures. Look how we sometimes screw up in forums because words that we would speak do not convey meaning in print. I think kids need to learn these skills at every opportunity.

When do you let them go ? How far can you go and give them the possibility of a university education ?

We can debate this forever because there is no answer, it is different for every child and potential school.

I'll tell you what really disturbs me, violence. I see what my youngsters are growing up with. Usually Yank crap cartoons where there is clear violent baddie who is always defeated by a good looking but equally violent goodie. It's horrifying.

 

[artona]

Hi

Hilldweller said.........I have expressed an honest opinion that a child educated out of the system might be disadvantaged compared to this benchmark.

I get the impression of your knowledge on the subject is very limited, do some home education and read up on it.

Hilldweller said ........Close relative to this is child abuse. Now you're not going to say a word against that are you

no-one with a normal mind agrees with child abuse and no one would argue against it but these days a slapped hand is seen as child abuse, just in case it leads to other things. Thats just down right silly.

Hilldweller said.......... When do you let them go ? How far can you go and give them the possibility of a university education

depends what you have at hand. I would hazard a guess that a great number of home educated go on to university. I know one couple who home educated both their children in the 70s and both children are now marine biologists earning in excess of £150k a year, they too are home educating their off spring.

Hilldweller said ......Kids are little horrors

no they are not but the state education system and society often turns them that way

stew

 

[sersol]

Artona said no they are not but the state education system and society often turns them that way

You may be right Stew,but so do some parents

Gary

 

[hilldweller]

Hi
stew

>> I get the impression of your knowledge on the subject is very limited, do some home education and read up on it.

None existent. I have put 2 daughters through university via the state system and I am watching 3 grandchildren going through the state system, so I can comment from the other side. I got the impression that there was drop in standards from the first doing GCE and the second doing GCSE.

>> but these days a slapped hand is seen as child abuse, just in case it leads to other things. Thats just down right silly.

I agree totally. A quick tap is better than a thousand words. A case in question on Loch Lomond last year, 5YO middle child thinks the mooring line a fine plaything. Daughter says "Don't do that". Child takes no notice. Tap. Child now safe.

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[thehutchies]

I'll tell you what really disturbs me, violence. I see what my youngsters are growing up with. Usually Yank crap cartoons where there is clear violent baddie who is always defeated by a good looking but equally violent goodie. It's horrifying.

I completely agree with that. We are not fanatically anti-school - we home educate our kids simply because we know we can do a better job for these particular kids than any school can.
However, having experienced the constant aggression and casual violence that is tolerated, or even condoned, in the average school, I'm pleased that they no longer think of that as normal.

 

[olley]

Child takes no notice. Tap. Child now safe.

Has the child also learnt that by inflicting pain on others he can get his own way?

Olley

 

[hilldweller]

Has the child also learnt that by inflicting pain on others he can get his own way?
Olley

That's not really a question is it.

A carefully laid trap, but I'm not playing.

 

[thehutchies]

Has the child also learnt that by inflicting pain on others he can get his own way?

Olley

The average Numb-nuts, low-brow, mouth-breathing kid would already know that inflicting pain brings some kind of reward.
I think that most kids are rather more sophisticated than that and would realise that a Fairy Love-Tap Angel Kiss from a respected adult would mean that they had passed a limit of acceptable behaviour.

 

[hilldweller]

However, having experienced the constant aggression and casual violence that is tolerated, or even condoned, in the average school, I'm pleased that they no longer think of that as normal.

We've got to wonder if this is not preparing them for the world that we have hand crafted for them.

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[billym]

Link Removed


An excellent recent blog on the subject.

I especially liked the following quote...........

" The one thing that stands out when people talk to a Home Educated child is they are their own person, not a product of a sausage factory. "

There was also an interesting article in the Daily Telegraph today in relation to the ex head of Wlliam Hulme Grammar in Manchester in which he refers to the newly formed
Dept for Children Schools and Families as Orwellian................how true.

 

[olley]

Hi for what's its worth, my opinion is that some schools are crap, mine barely taught English, and some are brilliant, and home educated children will be exactly the same.

Olley

 

[Dotplus6]

I must say that when I've seen MHs doing this I do wonder how the kids are going to learn to react to other kids. My youngest grandchild is 2 and already goes to activity groups and soon he'll be on a regular part time course.

I'm not saying regulate against it but I think it's better for the kids to mix as soon as possible with a large group.

Know it's a long time since this post was written but it's a topic of interest to myself so I'm wondering 'why' do you think it's better for kids to mix as soon as possible with a large group?

 

[cmcardle75]

Know it's a long time since this post was written but it's a topic of interest to myself so I'm wondering 'why' do you think it's better for kids to mix as soon as possible with a large group?

I certainly don't. Large groups of same aged children soon turn into the hotbed of fear and/or violence found only in schools and prisons. No-one at work would behave in a similar manner and I see no reason why children should be taught that it is normal. Mixing in smaller varied groups normally leads to much more supportive environment, although there are always some children who would ruin any environment whatever the size.

 

[Tootles]

And so, what would the team of amateur child psychologists recommend as a detergent against bad behaviour?? Take away their Ipad for 30 mins?? Kids are like puppies, they see a flaw, and take advantage. You have to be on top, that's the only edge as a parent you have.
The trouble is, as a society, we mostly neglect our children, and don't take the time to educate them at home. Schools, (to my mind), are second best at education. What a pity mothers, (or fathers these days), have to go out to work. Kids go to 'breakfast class', or whatever its called, then to 'after school class'.......Gran has them at weekend. Their whole world becomes parent-less.

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[Hollyberry]

I completely agree with that. We are not fanatically anti-school - we home educate our kids simply because we know we can do a better job for these particular kids than any school can.
However, having experienced the constant aggression and casual violence that is tolerated, or even condoned, in the average school, I'm pleased that they no longer think of that as normal.

Both my daughter and I are teachers-- about 40 years experience between us.
My daughter is strongly thinking of taking her son out of school and teaching him at home and I fully support that and would help her. Schools are now political institutions run for the benefit of statistics and the staff ( keep them in a job but keep however many layers are above them off their backs) children are not among their top priorities-- the paperwork and league tables win out every time.

It's a huge commitment to home school a child and the ones I've met have all been happy, confident people. One who didn't learn to write until he was 11 ( never showed an interest) had a First in science ( medical research type) a PhD and was team leader on a medical research program at 26. As his mum said " you meet a lot of tie dye in home schooling but rarely a miserable child"

 

[cmcardle75]

Both my daughter and I are teachers-- about 40 years experience between us.
My daughter is strongly thinking of taking her son out of school and teaching him at home and I fully support that and would help her. Schools are now political institutions run for the benefit of statistics and the staff ( keep them in a job but keep however many layers are above them off their backs) children are not among their top priorities-- the paperwork and league tables win out every time.

A very high proportion of home schoolers have a teacher for a parent. Says it all, really.

 

[Puddleduck]

I occasionally do "extra" maths and business studies tuition for children that either need extra input above the school class or for home schooled students whose parents are now out of their depth.

It's not how the children have been educated but how much they want to learn that makes the difference. I can teach any child that genuinely wants to learn but if they can't be bothered I'm wasting my time no matter what system they have come up through.

 

[thehutchies]

'You meet a lot of tie dye in home schooling but rarely a miserable child"

Excellent!

 

[olley]

Gran has them at weekend. Their whole world becomes parent-less.

Gran and Grandad can make dam good parents! I have looked after both my grandsons and still have the 18month old one for two days a week as my daughter works. My parents did it for me, and both my children seem well adjusted. Indeed I find that I have more time for my grandchildren, (and probably more patience) than I ever did for my own as I was working 70-80 hours a week.

Ian

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