Tyre wear - Abnormal or not

[Southampton]

I have just had a 2 year service on my Autotrail Comanche (Tag axle) and the service guy tells me that my front tyres have 5mm and 4mm tread left on the centre line. The 4mm was marked as "close" to the limit. The tyre pressures I normally run at is 60Psi. I have only done 11500 miles since new 2 years ago and didn't think I would wear them out so soon. Is this something others have experienced? The tyres are Michelin Agilis Campers. I know the van is a heavy beast and front wheel drive but I was expecting a greater mileage out of a set of tyres. Most of the threads on here are about changing tyres due to age or cracking, and I have not read anything about wearing them out. Oh and I don't do "wheelies" or screeching away at junctions. Has anybody experienced similar tyre wear?

 

[pappajohn]

If its wearing in the centre the pressure is too high
if it wears at the edges its too low....or you go round corners far too fast.

4mm and 5mm in the centre points to out of balance or badly seated on the rim.

Another couple of millimeters before its 'close'

Cars, light vans and light trailers MUST have a tread depth of at least 1.6 mm across the central three-quarters of the breadth of the tread and around the entire circumference.

But thats a limit....not a target.

 

[Southampton]

If its wearing in the centre the pressure is too high
if it wears at the edges its too low....or you go round corners far too fast.

4mm and 5mm in the centre points to out of balance or badly seated on the rim.

Another couple of millimeters before its 'close'



But thats a limit....not a target.

Thanks Pappajohn. Yes he did say 1.6 is the legal limit but they recommend changing at 3mm. The 4mm tread is on the near side and the 5mm is the offside. I have reduced the pressures to 50psi now, after their recommendation. Just wondered if this is excessive wear after only 11500 miles.

 

[Lenny HB]

I take it that it's a Fiat X250. What front axel weight are running?
It's sounds high, last van had Contis, which are generally do not wear as well as Michenlins, they were down to about 5mm after 26000 and the wear was even across the width, I was running at 60 psi, axle about 1650kg.

 

[Techno]

Agilis don't do anywhere near the high mileage that the previous XC tyre did. Softer compound to meet M+S rating is the culprit. If you mean 5mm tread with 4mm down the middle then that is as John said over inflation.
I think your mileage/wear rate is probably about right on the drive wheels. The internet will fill up with posts about fast wear rates on Agilis before long.

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[pappajohn]

Good advise to change at 3mm.

1.6mm will probably affect emergency braking distance and steering stability.

 

[Techno]

The tyres I replaced after purchase were the Michelin XC camping and the rears having been moved from the rear to the front went on to do 40 thousand miles. From reading on the French Rapido forum I was left uncertain of what to expect from the Agilis but there were many stories of half that or worse.
Agilis on the left XC on the right.
I also think that the depth of tread when new has been reduced.

 

[dulvil]

Autotrail chieftain with michelin camping tyres, right on wear lines at 10500 miles. 70 p.s.i. Even wear all over, now have continental and they grip much better in the rain eg. Hardly any slip when moving away

 

[mjltigger]

Different thing but On my Mondeo the factory fit tyres barely give 10k miles, swapped to cheapos last time and after 10k miles they are still not even 1/2 worn. I'm getting about 15% less miles out of a tank of derv though.

 

[haganap]

interesting thread, I was going to post a similar thing a few weeks ago before skiing.


I have the Continental Vanco camper tyres on. The fronts were down to the wear line after just 16k. I thought that was quite excessive,the van is a ducato x250 and the only time ive replaced tyres previously has been due to age not wear.

I opted for another set of vanco campers because in my mind they offer better grip than the XC campers I had from michelin previously and also were cheaper.

I thought it must be my racing driving and wheel spinning that was doing it but evidently not.

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[Southampton]

Thanks for all the input guys , it appears my tyre wear is not that abnormal after all. I will check out the pressures and make sure I run at the recommended psi. I am going to switch the fronts for two of the backs (all the backs have 9mm even spread tread) and keep an eye on the wear. Interesting inputs though, when normally tyre threads revolve around age and cracking. I was starting to think like Haggers that I had a heavy right foot...........Derek

 

[Peter A Forbes]

Some tyres have less tread in the centre from new, they are not uniform across the tread.

Our Discovery is on 255/65R16 Nexen Roadian A/T which is a road-biased tyre but both the ones on the car and the new ones in the stores have less centre groove tread depth.

On a 'commercial' tyre I'd not go much below 4mm if at all possible, which is why I changed all 6 plus the spare on the Mercedes when we got it. Treads were 4mm to 8mm across the set.

Peter

 

[Techno]

Thanks for all the input guys , it appears my tyre wear is not that abnormal after all. I will check out the pressures and make sure I run at the recommended psi. I am going to switch the fronts for two of the backs (all the backs have 9mm even spread tread) and keep an eye on the wear. Interesting inputs though, when normally tyre threads revolve around age and cracking. I was starting to think like Haggers that I had a heavy right foot...........Derek

Think about your replacement regime too as it is far better budget wise to replace two at a time rather than a massive hit. It is good to keep rotating to the rear and you might get away with 1 pair per year

 

[TheCaller]

It is good to keep rotating to the rear

Latest thinking seems to be going the other way. Seems counter-intuitive at first, especially as it's the prevalence of front wheel drive that seems to be behind it.

Current advice seems to be that new tyres should go on the back. This gives better stability, especially under braking. As more people now only have experience of front wheel drive, the only unstable characteristic they have ever experienced is understeer. Having the poorer types on the rear increases the possibility of oversteer as the rears breakaway. If they have never experienced oversteer before, most people's instinctive reaction to it makes it worse. So the current thinking is to maximise straight line stability, even if at the expense of ultimate braking performance. Any increase in braking performance by having the best tyres on the front would be useless if the back of the vehicle is busy trying to overtake the front!

 

[Techno]

Yes with cars I agree that is true.
Motorhomes are driven by mature people and usually on holiday as opposed to every day commuters in a rush in wet weather

That posh bird on one of the motoring programs maybe channel5? did a you tube demonstration of the effects but not really likely to be an issue with a motorhome.

EDIT thats the one!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicki_Butler-Henderson

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[mitzimad]

if your experiencing either understeer or over steer in a motorhome you need to be thinking about your driving lol
for those that dont understand the difference with understeer you see what your going to hit and with over steer you dont

 

[TheCaller]

I agree that the occurrence of the instability is a lot less likely in a motorhome, but the typical weight distribution makes straight line stability even more important when it does happen. All that liquid, of varying sorts sloshing around back there - especially when just off the ferry from France!

 

[TheCaller]

if your experiencing either understeer or over steer in a motorhome you need to be thinking about your driving lol

But that's the problem in a nutshell. Very few people ever do experience either - until a tyre deflates, a kid runs out in front of you, a car comes out of a side road, a corner tightens unexpectedly. Something happens, people swerve & hit the brakes.

It's the same reason everyone slithers to a halt at the first snow flurry - we don't get the practice, nor enough to warrant proper snow tyres.

 

[Al-Di]

in the old days you used to rotate the tyre's at various service points, something I still do, including the spare,

 

[Lenny HB]

Our 1.6mm limit is a bit of a joke, most other countries in Europe have limits of 2mm in summer and 3mm in winter.

I'm not a light footed driver so how come I did so well on the last van fronts still at over 5mm after 26000. I actually wouldn't mind them wearing quicker on current van as I will then replace them with all season tyres, at the moment keep thinking about buying another set of wheels with winter tyres.

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[Techno]

If they were Michelin XC camping then your experience would be no surprise Lenny . The agilis is the replacement and wear much faster

 

[Techno]

Thanks Pappajohn. Yes he did say 1.6 is the legal limit but they recommend changing at 3mm. The 4mm tread is on the near side and the 5mm is the offside. I have reduced the pressures to 50psi now, after their recommendation. Just wondered if this is excessive wear after only 11500 miles.

Do you know your axle weight with everything aboard for travel?
Mine is 1920kg with full fuel water LPG and wife. I would hazard a guess that yours is quite a bit lighter?
The 50 psi that you suggest is good for 1550kg with a 116 load index tyre capable of 80 psi max. If you are more than that weight LMK

 

[Lenny HB]

If they were Michelin XC camping then your experience would be no surprise Lenny . The agilis is the replacement and wear much faster

They were Conti Vanco Camper which I thought had a softer compound than the Michelin's.

 

[Techno]

They were Conti Vanco Camper which I thought had a softer compound than the Michelin's.

I have no experience of conti BUT if compared to Michelin XC rather than agilis it is still no surprise. As I said mine achieved near 40k

 

[laneside]

Just as an aside what is the normal tread depth of new tyre, I suspect about 10 millimetres but will stand to be corrected and does it vary much between tyre brands

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[Lenny HB]

Just as an aside what is the normal tread depth of new tyre, I suspect about 10 millimetres but will stand to be corrected and does it vary much between tyre brands

Yes approx 9-10mm.

 

[Southampton]

Not exactly sure of my axle weights but am assuming it is similar to yours a tad under 2000kg (3.0ltr 180bhp). I am going to load it up and get it weighed next week. I have had a few extras fitted since new, air con, tow bar, self levelling, so I need it weighed anyway. The plated weight says front 2100 and the 2 tags at 1500 each. I will get a more accurate weight next week.

Do you know your axle weight with everything aboard for travel?
Mine is 1920kg with full fuel water LPG and wife. I would hazard a guess that yours is quite a bit lighter?
The 50 psi that you suggest is good for 1550kg with a 116 load index tyre capable of 80 psi max. If you are more than that weight LMK

 

[Techno]

Yes you need to as 50 psi is nowhere near enough at that weight.
Mine is heavy because I'm front loaded with water and LPG
My spreadsheet says 61 psi for mine but I put 64 in.

 

[Southampton]

Yes I was thinking that. I have been told that Michelin advise 70 front and 80 on the 4 rears for those tyres and running at max plated weight, so I have just upped them to that. I will be interested in seeing the actual weights next week.

 

[Techno]

Michelin's policy is to quote maximum pressure on rears no matter what weights you give them

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