Trailer or A Frame - Up!

[sitesurfer]

As some will know I spent some time at Lincoln Show garnering opinion from a couple of stands about towing our new Up!

Having come home and now in the position to do something about it - I find myself still trying to come to terms with the whole kaboodle.

The A frame has some real positives for storage, neatness and simplicity, but requires me to have work done to the front of the car and it sounded a bit serious with welding suggested.

On the other hand, a small trailer would mean no modifications to the car, could use in Europe (however unlikely that actually is) but would be a royal pain to store between uses.

We bought the Up! new, to replace an estate car and to be our run about at home too. It’s on PCP (hence a bit nervous about drilling holes) but am likely to simply keep it afterwards.

What’s the collectives thoughts on this? Should I leave it unmarked and trailer it, or is it a reasonable thing to do with a car and finance companies generally don’t mind. (I’ve not asked them and I should).

The costs are about the same. A towbar is needed whatever we do, I have seen small trailers at about 1800 and have been offered the A Frame plus conversion for about 1200. Don’t need a new trailer of course.

Input appreciated from those who have done this and can offer experience.

Motorhome is F70, up plated to 4.1 tonne with airbags - so train weight should be ok.

Thanks.

 

[Mikeco]

Don’t forget that when you up plate your trainweight stays the same so your towing allowance is reduced by the same value.

 

[DandG5515]

Hi i thought the F70 was limited to 4.5t train weight, so with up plating the mh to 4.1t has the train weight been up plated as well?. A trailer may be out of the question with the train weight. We have a Suzuki celerio 19 plate on an a frame and tows great.

 

[the1andonly]

I tow an Up! On a towaframe it involves the crash frame being replaced with a modified version. There are 2 holes in the front bumper for the towing lugs screwed into the modified frame. ( covered with gromets) . I had no qualms in getting it modified but i paid old fashioned cash. No worries about handing it back. The conversion today is about £2800. Not cheap but im happy. As said you need to work out what wt you can aford for a trailer. Again lighter, the more £notes required.

 

[sitesurfer]

The GTM is 5000kg

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[Mikeco]

Looks like you may have a problem unless you are not using your full payload upgrade, no chance with a trailer.

 

[sitesurfer]

We weighed in at 3750 on the last weigh, so I calculated that we’d have about 1100 clear - the car is 870 kg so yes looks like trailer out.

 

[the1andonly]

Beware of using the car as a dump for all you can't put in the van and overloading it.

 

[sitesurfer]

We’ve got everything we need within the 3750, that’s diesel,water and all the gubbins. Plus of course awning, seats and the wife.

 

[DandG5515]

Taf did this for us earlier this year, he tries to avoid drilling holes in the bumper, only need replacement grill to remove the a frame, normally keeps the existing crash beam and bolts his frame over the top.

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[Manic]

We weighed in at 3750 on the last weigh, so I calculated that we’d have about 1100 clear - the car is 870 kg so yes looks like trailer out.

With your quoted weights, I think a trailer is out of the question as most trailers would be 300kg plus

 

[pandas]

As some will know I spent some time at Lincoln Show garnering opinion from a couple of stands about towing our new Up!

Having come home and now in the position to do something about it - I find myself still trying to come to terms with the whole kaboodle.

The A frame has some real positives for storage, neatness and simplicity, but requires me to have work done to the front of the car and it sounded a bit serious with welding suggested.

On the other hand, a small trailer would mean no modifications to the car, could use in Europe (however unlikely that actually is) but would be a royal pain to store between uses.

We bought the Up! new, to replace an estate car and to be our run about at home too. It’s on PCP (hence a bit nervous about drilling holes) but am likely to simply keep it afterwards.

What’s the collectives thoughts on this? Should I leave it unmarked and trailer it, or is it a reasonable thing to do with a car and finance companies generally don’t mind. (I’ve not asked them and I should).

The costs are about the same. A towbar is needed whatever we do, I have seen small trailers at about 1800 and have been offered the A Frame plus conversion for about 1200. Don’t need a new trailer of course.

Input appreciated from those who have done this and can offer experience.

Motorhome is F70, up plated to 4.1 tonne with airbags - so train weight should be ok.

Thanks.

We used an A frame to tow an UP. Very good car. Didn’t know it was there except the indicator noise was designed to make a different noise.
Didn’t need a jokey wheel which makes it a heavy unit and more difficult to store soba more compact unit just folded up nicely in the boot.
However have seen some towing a trailer and more specifically managing the complications when arriving on site. Personally cannot see the attraction unless you are heading straight towards a destination for the winter in the sun.
You need to be mindful using an A frame within EU is illegal in some countries but some here are apparently quite happy to take a chance. Not sure how that would effect insurance claims etc? We found electric bikes are a better option for what we used the tow car for and if any longer distances we simply hired a car, bus or train.

 

[sitesurfer]

We used an A frame to tow an UP. Very good car. Didn’t know it was there except the indicator noise was designed to make a different noise.
Didn’t need a jokey wheel which makes it a heavy unit and more difficult to store soba more compact unit just folded up nicely in the boot.
However have seen some towing a trailer and more specifically managing the complications when arriving on site. Personally cannot see the attraction unless you are heading straight towards a destination for the winter in the sun.
You need to be mindful using an A frame within EU is illegal in some countries but some here are apparently quite happy to take a chance. Not sure how that would effect insurance claims etc? We found electric bikes are a better option for what we used the tow car for and if any longer distances we simply hired a car, bus or train.

May I ask what mods where required to the up?

I meant to ask the poster above who mentioned the crash beam, it sounds dramatic but like many things it’s probably not.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Trailer all day for me.

 

[pandas]

From what I recall there was a small is adaption to be able to fit 2 screw eyes to the front - one was the point that already existed to tow the car with a tow rope as standard. That had a blanking plate. A mirrored hole was made the other side. A connector (like a caravan) at the front bottom. I don’t think there was an additional crash bar. The main cost was the inertia electrical braking which could be switched on or off from the inside (ie when not towed) and could be adjusted to suit. It was also very intuitive. The A frame was aluminum with adjustable arms which made it very compact and light.

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[pandas]

I tow an Up! On a towaframe it involves the crash frame being replaced with a modified version. There are 2 holes in the front bumper for the towing lugs screwed into the modified frame. ( covered with gromets) . I had no qualms in getting it modified but i paid old fashioned cash. No worries about handing it back. The conversion today is about £2800. Not cheap but im happy. As said you need to work out what wt you can aford for a trailer. Again lighter, the more £notes required.

Ours was about £1200 but that was 12 or more years ago via Smart Tow. Not sure they exist anymore?

 

[cmcardle75]

We’ve got everything we need within the 3750, that’s diesel,water and all the gubbins. Plus of course awning, seats and the wife.

A car transporter trailer weights around 500kg. You've measured your Up! at 870kg and your motorhome at 3750kg. That gives a total of 5120kg. If your GTW is 5000kg, you're not far off.

You could almost certainly find a lighter trailer, as the Up is tiny. Indeed, I've just found "Woodford" does suitable lightweight trailers 1300kg gross with 950kg max load (i.e. 350kg empty) that look perfectly sized. Keep it below 1250kg (i.e. keep the Up! below 900kg) and you've got your full 3750kg in the motorhome without compromise.

Specifically, the LWT-061 seems ideal. 3660 x 1700, 360kg weight. £2,214.05 + VAT list price.

The disadvantage of a trailer is what to do with it when not using it. However, it will maintain significant value, unlike an A frame, which could reduce value of the car, or, at least, the ease of selling it, as you need to find another A framer to sell to.

 

[pandas]

A car transporter trailer weights around 500kg. You've measured your Up! at 870kg and your motorhome at 3750kg. That gives a total of 5120kg. If your GTW is 5000kg, you're not far off.

You could almost certainly find a lighter trailer, as the Up is tiny. Indeed, I've just found "Woodford" does suitable lightweight trailers 1300kg gross with 950kg max load (i.e. 350kg empty) that look perfectly sized. Keep it below 1250kg (i.e. keep the Up! below 900kg) and you've got your full 3750kg in the motorhome without compromise.

Specifically, the LWT-061 seems ideal. 3660 x 1700, 360kg weight. £2,214.05 + VAT list price.

The disadvantage of a trailer is what to do with it when not using it. However, it will maintain significant value, unlike an A frame, which could reduce value of the car, or, at least, the ease of selling it, as you need to find another A framer to sell to.

Sold our UP no problem at all to a non Motorhomer at the going rate. You just have to take the hit on the electrics and A frame itself.

 

[Geo]

The disadvantage of a trailer is what to do with it when not using it. However, it will maintain significant value, unlike an A frame, which could reduce value of the car, or, at least, the ease of selling it, as you need to find another A framer to sell to.

Sold our UP no problem at all to a non Motorhomer at the going rate. You just have to take the hit on the electrics and A frame itself.

Beats me why folk keep adapting new cars when there are very many nice cars already done, most well cared for for and by far the cheapest way to A frame.
It ok, I just figured it out, without the new car converters the supply of good used one would dry up carry on chap ignore me
I might want a change soon

 

[maz]

On the other hand, a small trailer would mean no modifications to the car, could use in Europe (however unlikely that actually is) but would be a royal pain to store between uses.

If you’re only planning on using the van in the UK, have you thought about one of you driving the van and the other the car? We used to do this when fulltiming in the UK and it worked pretty well for us.

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[Jonno1103]

Sitesurfer

We weighed in at 3750 on the last weigh, so I calculated that we’d have about 1100 clear - the car is 870 kg so yes looks like trailer out.

Sitesurfer are sure the Up! only weighs 870kg? Never known any variant, (well, to be more accurate I can't find one) to be less the 900kg, most are around 949kg. As mentioned on FB we're trying to find one to tow with the standard 1000kg.

 

[cmcardle75]

Sitesurfer

Sitesurfer are sure the Up! only weighs 870kg? Never known any variant, (well, to be more accurate I can't find one) to be less the 900kg, most are around 949kg. As mentioned on FB we're trying to find one to tow with the standard 1000kg.

Which weight? Kerb weight/mass in service includes a 75kg driver, and, hopefully, they won't be in there when towing! I couldn't find the published kerb weight from VW. However, Wikipedia lists a range of 929-997kg. This will include 75kg for driver and 90% fuel, so 854-922kg empty weight, including nearly full fuel tank. A published 949kg figure would mean 874kg excluding driver if it was a kerb/mass in service weight.

 

[the1andonly]

Beats me why folk keep adapting new cars when there are very many nice cars already done, most well cared for for and by far the cheapest way to A frame.
It ok, I just figured it out, without the new car converters the supply of good used one would dry up carry on chap ignore me
I might want a change soon

It also depends on what you are buying,
An A frame with car attached
Or a car you want then pick a frame type.

 

[Jonno1103]

Which weight? Kerb weight/mass in service includes a 75kg driver, and, hopefully, they won't be in there when towing! I couldn't find the published kerb weight from VW. However, Wikipedia lists a range of 929-997kg. This will include 75kg for driver and 90% fuel, so 854-922kg empty weight, including nearly full fuel tank. A published 949kg figure would mean 874kg excluding driver if it was a kerb/mass in service weight.

The 929-997 on wiki is kerb weight.

 

[the1andonly]

May I ask what mods where required to the up?

I meant to ask the poster above who mentioned the crash beam, it sounds dramatic but like many things it’s probably not.

The crash bar is just bolted on , easy to change. The exchange item has been welded up.holes to align drilled . A 13 pin socket in engine bay. Switch for breakaway cable under numberplate. Inside car , break actuator and a switch box.

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[68c]

If you’re only planning on using the van in the UK, have you thought about one of you driving the van and the other the car? We used to do this when fulltiming in the UK and it worked pretty well for us.

This seems the most sensible solution to me. You get to use the full payload of both the van and car. We used to tour on motorbikes, the nice thing was the coffee breaks where you get to chat about what you saw on the journey. With you both in the same vehicle it is easy to drive for miles without talking and then have nothing to talk about when you do stop.

 

[Langtoftlad]

If you’re only planning on using the van in the UK, have you thought about one of you driving the van and the other the car? We used to do this when fulltiming in the UK and it worked pretty well for us.

Sadly, not an option for us solo travellers...
...Kerry keeps failing the test

 

[ThinkingAbout]

Genuine question, why do people have the expense of a motorhome, when they tow a car and use it like a caravan? I.e. park at a site and not move until you leave, using the car. Why not have a caravan at half the price?

 

[David and Sally]

Genuine question, why do people have the expense of a motorhome, when they tow a car and use it like a caravan? I.e. park at a site and not move until you leave, using the car. Why not have a caravan at half the price?

Personal choice.

We like...

....being on a site close to a town or transport links. We don't tow.

....being on a site where we can tour the area more widely. We take the toad.

 

[pandas]

Genuine question, why do people have the expense of a motorhome, when they tow a car and use it like a caravan? I.e. park at a site and not move until you leave, using the car. Why not have a caravan at half the price?

Good question and although we have decided it to not have one with this Motorhome particularly as we now have electric bikes our trips used to vary - some a long weekend, some a touring holiday for a couple of months and then some a weeks stay with family visiting. A car would be useful on the last option.
If you were thinking of going to a site, erecting an awaning and staying for a week I agree a caravan would seem to be the best option