Sterling product quality (1 Viewer)

[DavidG58]

Disappointingly these words could probably be applied to far too many brand new products these days

But my experience of today related to a brand new Sterling Inverter chosen by me based on name and perceived quality

The products are pretty much unchanged as far as I can see for a good many years, I ordered mine to be fitted by Automate who have been brilliant in the choice, fitting and then resolving the problem, which was

When fitted, Rob (Automate) plugged in his socket tester to be shown reversed polarity nothing he could possibly have done having only connected 12V and fixing to a wall, so rang Sterling for support, which appeared to be sketchy at best, bordering on useless

So Rob decided to remove the front of the inverter I was all for sending it back, but Rob wanted to try and solve the problem, first thing was the earth wire either fell out of its connection or more likely had never been connected, closely followed by the neutral wire, but the live connection still in place confirmed it was wired correctly. Reconnected both above and checked live, still shows reverse polarity

rang Sterling again but gained nothing, Rob asked about the possibility of something being wired wrong and was told if it was it would need to be de and resoldered, which then confirmed they were winging it

Rob looked a little further inside and immediately saw the wires feeding both outlet sockets were reversed, luckily though were both push on terminals, so once found quickly resolved

How on earth though can such things happen, surely some kind of test is carried out before despatch

Top marks and thanks again to Rob from Automate http://www.automateuk.com/ I will look to add to or create a review in a bit

I don't suppose reverse polarity would have done us much harm, or hopefully even anything we plugged in, although thinking about it if we use the 2 pin option with or without an adaptor it is pretty much 50/50 if that become reversed I guess, our euro adaptor certainly has nothing to stop it going it either way up

 

[androidGB]

This makes disappointing reading, I always believed that Sterling had an excellent reputation for design and quality of manufacture

Andrew

 

[Stealaway]

Still - It's been made and tested in China.

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[andy63]

hiya David, that is disappointing and frustrating.. and does nothing to help their reputation..
I used Stirling products in my silver camper, and was impressed with the quality but it came at a high price..
I had problems with their power management panel, and their technical support was great, with detailed instructions on how to open and re calibrate it.. when that failed to resolve the issue they replaced without any further debate..
I would imagine with them charging top dollar for their products you would expect top end support..as there is so much competition out there now...
hope your problems are soon resolved..
andy

 

[tonyidle]

The reversed polarity is utterly irrelevant when applied to an inverter (or generator). Reversed with respect to what? The AC connections coming out of an inverter aren't referenced to earth as neither is connected to earth. So there is no 'live' and no 'neutral' - simply a pair of wires across which can be measured mains voltage. If neither one is connected to ground there's no such thing as reversed polarity.

 

[andy63]

The reversed polarity is utterly irrelevant when applied to an inverter (or generator). Reversed with respect to what? The AC connections coming out of an inverter aren't referenced to earth as neither is connected to earth. So there is no 'live' and no 'neutral' - simply a pair of wires across which can be measured mains voltage. If neither one is connected to ground there's no such thing as reversed polarity.

I sort of get what you are saying , about the irrelevance tony but surely when you stick a meter on a mains ac supply you measure the 230 volts on what we call the positive pin... thats what you expect to find.... or am I missing something..
andy

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[canopus]

Had my doubts about Mr Sterling and his products for many a year after one of his alternator booster products nearly set our narrowboat on fire. They seem happy for folk to send things back for repair, but just wonder what their QA is like if they can sell stuff with reversed polarity.

 

[Pausim]

Surprised. I have had several Sterling products over the years and no problems. Polarity seems to be a peculiarly British thing and largely ignored elsewhere.

 

[tonyl]

This is a timely thread, as I recently offered to fit a charging system to our shared narrowboat and had picked out a Sterling product, partly on the basis that neighbouring boats in the marina both have them.

I had my suspicions about their support a week or two ago. My first technical query was answered immediately but subsequent questions have been ignored, both as direct emails and as web forms. I like an answer in writing, if only because I am acting on behalf of others as well, so if they don't want to answer, they are unlikely to get the business. I don't suppose they will lose any sleep over that but it's disappointing.

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[funflair]

It is worth knowing which way your Sterling inverter is wired with regards to the AC out, Neutral earth bonded or centre tapped.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0..._343a45e8-6e0d-49f8-b949-978ea43af453.pdf?731

Martin

 

[canopus]

This is a timely thread, as I recently offered to fit a charging system to our shared narrowboat and had picked out a Sterling product, partly on the basis that neighbouring boats in the marina both have them.

I had my suspicions about their support a week or two ago. My first technical query was answered immediately but subsequent questions have been ignored, both as direct emails and as web forms. I like an answer in writing, if only because I am acting on behalf of others as well, so if they don't want to answer, they are unlikely to get the business. I don't suppose they will lose any sleep over that but it's disappointing.

Stick with Victron or Mastervolt kit for your narrowboat if you can afford it IMO.

 

[Stealaway]

I had Sterling Products on my NB and very pleased with them and the after care service, but they are built in China. I expect Victron and Mastervolt is as well, such is the world we live in

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[DavidG58]

It is worth knowing which way your Sterling inverter is wired with regards to the AC out, Neutral earth bonded or centre tapped.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0..._343a45e8-6e0d-49f8-b949-978ea43af453.pdf?731

Martin

Is that a question to me Martin ?

I have opened the link and can confirm we have a 12V 600W pure sine wave, but the rest is foreign to me

although I do trust Automate to have known what they were up to

 

[funflair]

Is that a question to me Martin ?

I have opened the link and can confirm we have a 12V 600W pure sine wave, but the rest is foreign to me

although I do trust Automate to have known what they were up to

Hi David

Its information out there for consumption by anybody who is interested, I only found this out when fitting a Sterling inverter for a friend and "shock horror" I read the instructions, his inverter came as standard the centre tapped (whatever that is) so thereby limiting any voltage to earth to 120v and rendering any RCD useless.

I believe as centre tapped there would be no polarity, the alternative set up which is available by taking off the case and inserting a fuse or something would give a true 240v that would operate a RCD and again I believe it will show a polarity when checked.

I will also add that my electrical knowledge is pretty sketchy and I will not be even slightly offended if shot down in flames

Martin

EDIT just to add @DavidG58 I think yours would be delivered in centre tapped set up.

 

[Flamenca]

@DavidG58 I have bought a few items 'branded' Sterling and have been very disappointed with the quality and their customer support (or rather the lack of it). Two items I had repaired by a company who seem to make good money out of Sterling products. I don't know why I bought more than one of their products. All I can say is never again.

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[DBK]

As @tonyidle said, the term reverse polarity has no relevance for the output of an inverter. The "live" and "neutral" wires are just the two ends of a transformer winding and are completely interchangeable.

My cheapo 1500W pure sine inverter is still working if that helps - although I don't know how good a sine wave it produces. If I can get my act together I might see if I can make an oscilloscope using my Raspberry Pi.

 

[DavidG58]

Thanks all for various inputs, does seem slightly odd that when checking a voltage on a socket it is 'OK' for the positive terminal to read negative

In my case the installer swapped the input wires inside the inverter then it read 'right', he seemed happier with that result and I certainly was

not challenging the technical comments already given, but I do like things to at least seem right, having said that had the installer not plugged in the tester, I guess we would never have known

 

[funflair]

As @tonyidle said, the term reverse polarity has no relevance for the output of an inverter. The "live" and "neutral" wires are just the two ends of a transformer winding and are completely interchangeable.

My cheapo 1500W pure sine inverter is still working if that helps - although I don't know how good a sine wave it produces. If I can get my act together I might see if I can make an oscilloscope using my Raspberry Pi.

SO bear with me here, I did say electickery was not my thing, the link I posted earlier to Sterling inverters and the difference between "Centre Tapped" and "Neutral Earth Bonded" does that not make the "Neutral Earth Bonded" one polarised?

Martin

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[DBK]

Centre tapped means I think the middle of the winding is connected to earth, making each of the supply wires 120 volts with respect to earth and 240 across the pair. It's a bit like the 415 volts in a three phase supply and the 240 in a domestic supply. Not exactly the same, as there's no phase difference, but similar.
The neutral bonded is a new term to me and might mean one of the wires is connected to earth in the same way neutral in a domestic supply is connected to earth at the local transformer.
With the centre tapped design there will be no difference between the voltage measured to earth on both live and neutral which is probably why the electrician's device showed it as a fault. Which it isn't.

 

[funflair]

Centre tapped means I think the middle of the winding is connected to earth, making each of the supply wires 120 volts with respect to earth and 240 across the pair. It's a bit like the 415 volts in a three phase supply and the 240 in a domestic supply. Not exactly the same, as there's no phase difference, but similar.
The neutral bonded is a new term to me and might mean one of the wires is connected to earth in the same way neutral in a domestic supply is connected to earth at the local transformer.
With the centre tapped design there will be no difference between the voltage measured to earth on both live and neutral which is probably why the electrician's device showed it as a fault. Which it isn't.

Neutral Earth bonding is apparently what Sterling inverters are if you go inside the case and move a fuse that changes it from Centre tapped, so would that show up as Revere polarity if you wired it the other way?

Martin

 

[Robert Clark]

I had Sterling Products on my NB and very pleased with them and the after care service, but they are built in China. I expect Victron and Mastervolt is as well, such is the world we live in

I understand that Victron kit is built in India, having said that the build quality is very good

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[Tony Smith]

We saved up to have a sterling 2500 watt sine way invertor & charger fitted and it worked brilliantly until our vans 3rd habitation check (after it was fitted ) where the mobile engineer found it to only be supplying 110volt not 240 Volts. It was checked and it was a 240 volt version we had bought and because we ran universal appliances like our tv and drive we never noticed a problem as everything worked but 3 months after numerous emails we have still had no reply from sterling and still have a defunct product.

It’s well made and their reputation was good which is why we bought from them but I’m wondering if we should have saved some money and bought another brand.

Tony.

 

[canopus]

I understand that Victron kit is built in India, having said that the build quality is very good

When we had our narrowboat Victron may well have been made elsewhere, but the QA/QC was light years better than Sterlings. You only need look on yachting, narrowboat etc forums to see loads of complaints about Mr Sterling's products and his after sales service. Have a look at the number of 're-furbed' products that Sterling sells, and that should ring bells.

 

[andy63]

Neutral Earth bonding is apparently what Sterling inverters are if you go inside the case and move a fuse that changes it from Centre tapped, so would that show up as Revere polarity if you wired it the other way?

Martin

that was an interesting link Martin... like yourself have a keen interest in things like this but I don't always grasp it... was discussing various forms of earthing arrangements the other week and @Richard and Ann was good enough to explain it in a way I understood...
I believe in answer to your query that if you inserted the fuse and it became earth neutral bonded then it would show up as a reversed polarity if you wired it the other way..
....
back to davids unit.... the lad probed the socket and it showed the polarity was reversed.. he's a electrician so there shouldn't be any doubt about his conclusion and he resolved the issue by reversing the connection...
it could be davids unit had the link in place, but I wouldn't dispute what he found..
my interest was in the portable generator which has a floating earth and I believe it can be modified in the same way as Stirling indicate their inverters can be modified by inserting the link in an external plug rather than accessing the windings... if I probe the plug socket on a generator I get 230v between live and neutral and live and earth. but ill read some more and try and get a better understanding..
andy

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[Pausim]

found it to only be supplying 110volt

I think that was what @DBK was explaining. The default centre tapped position is that both wires carry only 110v but the combined effect at the appliance is the same as normal mains. I believe they see this as safer where no rcd is used. On my inverter the fuse is pushed into a slot on the back of the unit and it then behaves in the more familiar manner where a rcd will work.

 

[DBK]

Neutral Earth bonding is apparently what Sterling inverters are if you go inside the case and move a fuse that changes it from Centre tapped, so would that show up as Revere polarity if you wired it the other way?

Martin

I had to do a bit digging on this and neutral-earth bonding is as I suspected just connecting the neutral to earth. Once you do this then an RCD device will work correctly. I read you can't do this with all inverters although I'm also not sure why you can't.
If the Sterling allows neutral-earth bonding then I would do this and fit an RCD device on its output. A non-latching type won't need to be reset every time the inverter is switched off.

 

[funflair]

I had to do a bit digging on this and neutral-earth bonding is as I suspected just connecting the neutral to earth. Once you do this then an RCD device will work correctly. I read you can't do this with all inverters although I'm also not sure why you can't.
If the Sterling allows neutral-earth bonding then I would do this and fit an RCD device on its output. A non-latching type won't need to be reset every time the inverter is switched off.

I think they offer some of their inverters with the RCD integrated.

Martin

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[tonyl]

Definitely veering towards Victron for my application. Thanks for the inputs. I sent the same queries to Victron this morning but didn't get an answer. They say their dealers have been trained to answer technical questions. Hmm, we'll see.

By the way, something else I thought was fishy about Sterling was their warranty. Five years on the charger I was looking at but only if purchased direct from them (at a premium of around 30% of course). I don't know whether that applies to all their products but I would certainly look at the small print.

Sorry to divert this thread, especially as I have nothing to add to answer the original question.

Tony

 

[DBK]

I think they offer some of their inverters with the RCD integrated.

Martin

I've heard that too - in which case they are probably neutral-earth bonded inside I guess.* You could tell with a volt meter.

*But I think an RCD would also work with the centre tapped arrangement now I think about it. So I don't have a clue although measuring the voltage between live and earth then neutral and earth would hopefully identify how it is arranged. Probably best just to wear rubber boots and rubber gloves in the MH.

 

[tonyidle]

I sort of get what you are saying , about the irrelevance tony but surely when you stick a meter on a mains ac supply you measure the 230 volts on what we call the positive pin... thats what you expect to find.... or am I missing something..
andy

It's hard to explain without mentioning Live and Neutral because those terms only apply to a supply derived from 3-phase but: if you measure across the two wires leaving an inverter or a generator you will, as you say, see a nominal 220 - 240v mains voltage. In the UK at least one of those two wires is connected to ground at the power station (and other parts of the distribution network) and given the name "Neutral". The other wire is named "Live". So to summarise we can tell which is N and which is L. This means that if the L makes contact with anything that is connected to earth a fuse will blow or a breaker will trip thus informing the user that they have a fault. A tester, whether built in to the van or plugged in by the user, can only check for correct polarity by making sure that the correct wire (the L) has mains voltage on it. It does this by testing for mains between the Earth wire and the Live wire. If the Live and Neutral are reversed it will be measuring between Neutral and Earth which we have already determined are one and the same so no mains voltage will be present. So ......................... without that Neutral to Earth connection at the generator or at the inverter any attempt to check 'polarity' will fail or, for various semi-technical reasons, give an erroneous result.

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