Starter battery not charging whilst driving or on EHU - Ducato/Ace Siena (1 Viewer)

[TDub49]

So, I know that there is a problem with the starter battery which I put down to battery condition and was prepared to chase the moths away from my wallet and put a new battery in. As luck would have it, service/habitation check and MoT were all booked so I thought I would wait for the outcome. The garage I was booked into cunningly had two branches not far from each other - one for trucks and artics and the other for vans. Guess where Google maps took me with unerring accuracy - the truck branch. No problem, leap back in to the moho and whizz off to the correct branch. Not. Starter battery behaving as if flatter than a pancake having started up with no problem at home and after a 30 minute drive.

Eventually got the van started (bump start in reverse) and off to the correct branch where the battery issue was discussed and noted. Next day (I delivered the night before the service was due) 'phone call from garage to say the battery wasn't charging on the EHU and had I "done anything" that might make that happen? "Nope" says I - "maybe the battery is just duff?" "Nope" says they, "we've checked and topped up the battery and it all seems fine to us".

So today I pick the van up - just before closing - and she starts a treat. Problem solved thinks I. Nope - get home, wait a few mins and then give the starter a tweak and gurgh - no juice.

I now have to wait until Monday to be able to talk to the garage and in the meantime just wonder if any other funsters have had a similar problem and if so, what it was. I am pretty sure that in half an hour or so, the solar panel will have put enough charge into the battery to start it up and now also fairly sure that if I were to drive 20 miles our more and true it off, I would have to wait some time before there would be enough juice top get me going again.

 

[GeoffnDee]

Many battery/starter/charging problems have turned out to be faulty earth leads , either battery to body or engine to body, even though they look ok, if you have a jump lead you could use it as a temporary earth, engine to body or battery to body, to see if it improves things.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

It may be that the starter batter doesn't charge anyway when on ehu.mine doesn't ,although it's s Peugeot base, so added a battery master

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[Itsmcb]

Could be dodgy starter battery, poor battery connection, bad earth, faulty starter, or faulty starter solenoid.
Start with the temporary earth as above

 

[TDub49]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. When the van wouldn't start at the "wrong" garage, one of their mechanics came out with a battery pack and tried that with no success - but he wasn't sure if the pack was properly charged or not.

He did show me where the battery is though (silly me, I thought it was under the bonnet, not under the passenger side floor behind carpets and screw down panels). There does appear to be a +ve terminal in the engine bay under a flip-up cover which I guess is there to facilitate a jump start but neither connecting to that and a suitable bit of chassis or connecting to both battery terminals worked.

So the supplementary questions are, where will I find the various earth connections that I need to check and how likely is it to be an earth problem, given that the van starts after a while on solar charge and the battery drops while the vehicle is running?

 

[Itsmcb]

If it's not know if the garage battery pack was charged or not then that doesn't help at all Do you have a multimeter you can check your battery voltage with?

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[Itsmcb]

Actually thinking about it. It's quite possibly the engine to body earth cable causing problems as the starter and the alternator will use this but your solar will use the battery to chassis connection. Maybe try a temporary earth from the actual battery negative direct to the engine, there's usually a lifting eye or similar to clamp to.

 

[pappajohn]

given that the van starts after a while on solar charge and the battery drops while the vehicle is running?

Confusing. How do you know the STARTER battery is charging on solar? .... Unless its linked to the hab battery, via the control panel or solar regulator.
If it charges on solar with the engine running it won't be discharging as well
If it isn't charging when running there's a fault in the alternator
You really need a multimeter to check voltages.
If you don't know how to use one get someone who does, but not that garage.... They appear to be clueless and it's just costing you more money.
Since when did a Fiat professional garage have hands on experience with motorhome systems and electrics.

 

[gus-lopez]

i would be looking at the starter solenoid or the wire that attaches to it. next time it doesn't start , waggle the wire that attaches to the solenoid. If that doesn't work, hit the solenoid with a heavy bar then try.

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[gus-lopez]

"maybe the battery is just duff?" "Nope" says they, "we've checked and topped up the battery and it all seems fine to us".

I thought that ruled out a battery problem?

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Everything you have described above points to a faulty starter motor and not a battery problem.
If I have read it correctly it generally starts fine when cold and not after a run?
If this is the case then the starter solenoid coil is going open circuit when it warms up.

 

[Jev88]

Big juicy jump lead on negative terminal of battery and clamp other end to an exposed bit of engine metalwork.
Try starting.
If it does - bingo - you have a commonly found crap earth connection from battery to chassis. Intermittent problem caused by vibration and can be a pig to diagnose. I replaced my crap showlace lead Fiat fit with a new one, also replaced the gearbox to wing lead and added a third to a convenient eyelet mounted on top of engine - lots of electrical problems disappeared.

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[tonka]

On a previous van Fiat ducato 2012. I discovered the negative connection onto the cab/engine battery was a clip on type. Not a screw or bolt.
While it looked tight and battery test with a meter showed it as ok.. As soon as i pressed the clip a bit harder and heard a click, Engine started.
Just something worth a look.

 

[Spriddler]

If it isn't charging when running there's a fault in the alternator

Wouldn't the red warning light on the dash illuminate to indicate alternator not charging?

 

[GeoffnDee]

Not always ,If you look at the post by Laugher on Monday in Motorhome Questions title Electrical Problem Peugeot Boxer 2003 his alternator light was going out but it was not charging (bad earth problem)

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Be carefull jump starting your van.lots have damaged the airbag controller ,it's a costly exercise.

 

[TDub49]

Be carefull jump starting your van.lots have damaged the airbag controller ,it's a costly exercise.

Interesting - how would I know if the airbag controller is damaged (not that we were able to jump start it anyway as I think the garage's battery pack was also flat)? Presumably that is a risk jump starting any vehicle with airbags fitted?

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

The airbag light on the dash stays on ,when the controller is damaged.if jumping with leads best to let the batteries equalise a little before switching on and starting up.thete are lots of threads on this topic on FUN

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[TDub49]

By way of tying this thread off (to a degree) I replaced the starter battery to chassis lead with a brand new braided one and that seems fine (we've been to France and a couple of UK sites since. The starter battery is dying anyway now (old age) so time for a new one methinks. I never did find any of the other earth leads mentioned in the thread or even find a suitable alternative engine to chassis connection as all I see when I open the bonnet is a sea of plastic which I don't want to remove unless I really have to . . . .

 

[GeoffnDee]

The other earth lead , engine to body/chassis , may be connected via a gearbox bolt under the van.