Solar Power - Home UK & Spain (2 Viewers)

[EuroTrotters]

I wonder if some of you with knowledge or experience could look at these quotes for me please and let me know your thoughts ?

I am looking at getting solar and getting a bit bogged down with it all. Thanks to MB who sent me the Solar Together, but seems Greater Manchester are still not on the list.

I have been quoted for our UK House by e-on who seem to be the most straight forward. Though the battery prices like all or most of the solar companies seem expensive.

Our UK Roof is South facing 100% and no shade or intrusions. Plenty of room for solar with Octopus saying we could easily get 10kw on both roofs.
It is occupied all day for quite a lot of the year, though we spend quite a lt of weeks away.

We have a traditional gravity / pumped gas boiler. with a hot water tank (plus Electric Immersion heater.)and whole house gas CH radiators.
We have the main study office heated by a Daikin A/C heat pump
Bedrooms along side the radiators all have Daikin Multi-Split A/C with heat

Usual Gas Hob, Electric oven, Washing Machine, Heat Pump Dryer and Dishwasher

Log Cabin has Hitachi Heat pump and log burner

The first Images are the e-on UK Quote

______________________________________________________________________________

Spanish House Last Images

High Occupancy Rate

Summer 20 weeks using

Pool heater
Pool Pump
4/5 x A/C Units for cooling
Electric Oven
Large Fridge
Freezer
up-to around 150 low energy bulbs that the guests like to leave on 24/7
2 x Washing Machines
Heat Pump Dryer
Dishwasher

ETC

30 weeks of mixed personal use and off season rentals.

Difference being

We turn the Lights off
Still use the Pool heater in shoulder season
Winter we use the A/C for heating
Log Burner Lit on cold nights

Roof is split onto many different levels and aspects. So would have to have East, West and South facing panels with optimisers

There is also lots if talk of getting grants from the EU and reductions in IBI (Council Tax) but would not hold my breath !

 

[Dazzlin]

We had Octopus knock on our door (in Spain) yesterday, but I was busy and we have the builders in at the moment. I will look into it in the future though.

I have heard of many not getting the grant/feedback sorted in Spain, think it's the usual paperwork thing, but also a lot of folks are fitting solar over here now the government promised to make it more worthwhile than the early days.

Following with interest

 

[dunnah01]

Can only see the 5kW UK quote excluding any battery storage and the 'savings' figure looks very ambitious. The installation cost seems OK for what's been quoted though.

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[MisterB]

I wonder if some of you with knowledge or experience could look at these quotes for me please and let me know your thoughts ?

I am looking at getting solar and getting a bit bogged down with it all. Thanks to MB who sent me the Solar Together, but seems Greater Manchester are still not on the list.

I have been quoted for our UK House by e-on who seem to be the most straight forward. Though the battery prices like all or most of the solar companies seem expensive.

Our UK Roof is South facing 100% and no shade or intrusions. Plenty of room for solar with Octopus saying we could easily get 10kw on both roofs.
It is occupied all day for quite a lot of the year, though we spend quite a lt of weeks away.

We have a traditional gravity / pumped gas boiler. with a hot water tank (plus Electric Immersion heater.)and whole house gas CH radiators.
We have the main study office heated by a Daikin A/C heat pump
Bedrooms along side the radiators all have Daikin Multi-Split A/C with heat

Usual Gas Hob, Electric oven, Washing Machine, Heat Pump Dryer and Dishwasher

Log Cabin has Hitachi Heat pump and log burner

The first Images are the e-on UK Quote

______________________________________________________________________________

Spanish House Last Images

High Occupancy Rate

Summer 20 weeks using

Pool heater
Pool Pump
4/5 x A/C Units for cooling
Electric Oven
Large Fridge
Freezer
up-to around 150 low energy bulbs that the guests like to leave on 24/7
2 x Washing Machines
Heat Pump Dryer
Dishwasher

ETC

30 weeks of mixed personal use and off season rentals.

Difference being

We turn the Lights off
Still use the Pool heater in shoulder season
Winter we use the A/C for heating
Log Burner Lit on cold nights

Roof is split onto many different levels and aspects. So would have to have East, West and South facing panels with optimisers

There is also lots if talk of getting grants from the EU and reductions in IBI (Council Tax) but would not hold my breath !

View attachment 836231View attachment 836232View attachment 836233View attachment 836234

is it just solar (PV panels), as you mention batteries in your post? as regards price, a ten year return on your money doesnt seem bad BUT only if youre still there !!


i think they are overcharging you for the panels by almost £100 a panel though !

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A sollis inverter is only around £500 - £600

so by my reckoning @ £1600 for panels and £600 for the inverter, £800 for scaffolding, £1000 for brackets and rails and then £800 for the electrical bits and installation by an electrician ,,,, youre being charged a lot of money for labour for an installation that only takes a day !!! Remember the guarantees on the equipment are provided by the manufacturer not the installer.

having said that, its probably typical of install prices and e-on are probably subbing the work out to 'trusted' installers - if you could get someone to do the install, then this might be an option .... and its not too far away from you !

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[EuroTrotters]

Can only see the 5kW UK quote excluding any battery storage and the 'savings' figure looks very ambitious. The installation cost seems OK for what's been quoted though.

is it just solar (PV panels), as you mention batteries in your post? as regards price, a ten year return on your money doesnt seem bad BUT only if youre still there !!


i think they are overcharging you for the panels by almost £100 a panel though !

LONGI Solar 435W Hi-Mo6 Mono Solar Panel - Black Frame

Unlock exceptional solar energy with LONGI Solar's 435W panels. Power your dreams with sustainable solar energy. Trade prices available.

lukaro.shop

LONGi Solar Hi-MO 5m 405WP Full Black PV Module LR5-54HIB-405M

LONGi's high-efficiency PV modules are widely used all over the world, from alpine grasslands to desert wastelands, and from ponds and vegetable beds to household dwellings. LONGi's ultra-high-value PV module products continue to benefit customers and local economy with its advantages of higher...

www.cityplumbing.co.uk

A sollis inverter is only around £500 - £600

so by my reckoning @ £1600 for panels and £600 for the inverter, £800 for scaffolding, £1000 for brackets and rails and then £800 for the electrical bits and installation by an electrician ,,,, youre being charged a lot of money for labour for an installation that only takes a day !!! Remember the guarantees on the equipment are provided by the manufacturer not the installer.

having said that, its probably typical of install prices and e-on are probably subbing the work out to 'trusted' installers - if you could get someone to do the install, then this might be an option .... and its not too far away from you !

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Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5kW TIER 1 Solar PV Panel System for Domestic Property House DIY KIT RRP £6500 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

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Had a new quote today

 

[MisterB]

and fogstars new offering (coming soon) works with Solis inverters - if i was starting from scratch i would have jumed on 2 of these!

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[EuroTrotters]

We had Octopus knock on our door (in Spain) yesterday, but I was busy and we have the builders in at the moment. I will look into it in the future though.

I have heard of many not getting the grant/feedback sorted in Spain, think it's the usual paperwork thing, but also a lot of folks are fitting solar over here now the government promised to make it more worthwhile than the early days.

Following with interest

My Spanish quote I posted was from a local company in javea. They were very candid in telling me I would be very lucky to get anything back from the EU. That and not to base my budget on getting any subsidy, other than from the local council in the form of a couple of hundred euro IBI reduction

Another Spanish company cold called me and gs e me a cheaper quote than MiSolar. But they tell me the subsidies will end on the 31st of December this year

This is they

 

[EuroTrotters]

and fogstars new offering (coming soon) works with Solis inverters - if i was starting from scratch i would have jumed on 2 of these!

Fogstar Energy 15.5Kwh 48V Battery

A high-performance 15.5kWh battery designed for UK conditions, featuring intelligent heating, plug-and-play inverter compatibility, an intuitive LCD touchscreen interface, premium Grade A EVE cells, scalable energy storage,

www.fogstar.co.uk

I have sent this over to the installers for their comments. Thank you, very informative.

 

[Yorick]

We're looking at solar but the Spanish subsidies end December 31st.

And they're taken from the tax bill. But we're not working
But can get reduced Ibi.

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[gus-lopez]

No subsidies around here. My mate & his spanish neighbour just paid for their systems. There is no feed in tariff you just pay less for the electricity you use when solar not generating. basically you need to be using what you generate to make it worthwhile .Unlike my mate who generated in january 13kwh & uses less than one
Iberdrola told me my usage wouldn't even make it worthwhile as the payback period would be colossal.

I have heard of many not getting the grant/feedback sorted in Spain,

It would be returned as a deduction on tax paid at the La Renta declaration in june. Ok if you pay anything.

now the government promised to make it more worthwhile than the early days.

I can't see how they can do that? the original was 25 year guaranteed feed in tariffs,that the bearded one then unilaterally rescinded bankrupting many homeowners. Grants don't & won't replace a feed in tariff income & reduced cost electricity when the solar is not generating as if you cannot use it all you are supplying it to the company free of charge whilst having paid yourself for the installation costs to allow them to make money by selling it to those without solar power installs..

other than from the local council in the form of a couple of hundred euro IBI reduction

That would be over 20 years to me to get back :I'd be long dead.

Mole valley farmers in Devon used to offer a 4Kw system installed for 4,995.

 

[autorouter]

You need to know that there are two different kinds of inverters. Standard 'grid-tied' inverters and 'hybrid' inverters.

A grid-tied inverter is cheaper but can't be used directly with batteries. It is used on many installations, providing solar power which can either be used by the household when available, or fed back into the grid.

A hybrid inverter can have a big battery connected to it, to store the solar power if you want. You can then use the stored power for household use. Any excess solar power once the batteries are full is fed back into the grid.

It's true that you can add battery storage to a grid-tied inverter setup, However this involves adding an inverter/charger for the batteries, as well as adding batteries. An added inverter/charger is not required for a hybrid system, because it is built into the inverter.

If you are thinking of adding battery storage in the future, it's best to get a hybrid inverter, even if you don't add batteries right at the start.

Another consideration is that in a power cut, a grid-tied inverter stops generating power because it has no reference waveform to allow it to generate power. A hybrid inverter has a built-in waveform reference, and can generate power during a power cut.

I think the Solis inverter in your first quote is a grid-tied type. Solis make both types.

 

[MisterB]

No subsidies around here. My mate & his spanish neighbour just paid for their systems. There is no feed in tariff you just pay less for the electricity you use when solar not generating. basically you need to be using what you generate to make it worthwhile .Unlike my mate who generated in january 13kwh & uses less than one
Iberdrola told me my usage wouldn't even make it worthwhile as the payback period would be colossal.

It would be returned as a deduction on tax paid at the La Renta declaration in june. Ok if you pay anything.

I can't see how they can do that? the original was 25 year guaranteed feed in tariffs,that the bearded one then unilaterally rescinded bankrupting many homeowners. Grants don't & won't replace a feed in tariff income & reduced cost electricity when the solar is not generating as if you cannot use it all you are supplying it to the company free of charge whilst having paid yourself for the installation costs to allow them to make money by selling it to those without solar power installs..

That would be over 20 years to me to get back :I'd be long dead.

Mole valley farmers in Devon used to offer a 4Kw system installed for 4,995.

Seems like a smaller PV installation and a storage battery might be a solution ...at the right price of course - that way they get to use all the free energy they have harvested during the day, at night time ??

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[MisterB]

I have sent this over to the installers for their comments. Thank you, very informative.

From what Becca told me yesterday, they come fully assembled and ready to go. My Seplos took me 3 hours to assemble (though I could have done it an hour had I been more confident) BUT it took well over a week to charge all the cells up (top balancing) before I could assemble it and use it! So if they do come as plug and play then assembling your own really isn't worth doing!

 

[Yorick]

Over here Endesa has what's called a virtual battery.
You get 10c for any spare leccy you sell to the grid.
And buy any extra you need at 12c

Saves thousands on batteries.

 

[gus-lopez]

Over here Endesa has what's called a virtual battery.
You get 10c for any spare leccy you sell to the grid.
And buy any extra you need at 12c

Saves thousands on batteries.

Here you get nothing for any excess going back to the grid & pay at a different "solar power" rate for anything you use.The amount is cahrgeable by the hour the same as you pay by the hour.

Todays rates vary from 2,2cents per Kwh up to 12,4cents

that way they get to use all the free energy they have harvested during the day, at night time ??

That would just be a further waste of money as if he isn't using the huge amount he generates during the day then he doesn't need a supply from batteries at night. Even now we have managed to get them to use the pool pump during the day , when needed, also washing machine etc. The average use is 13%,of generated power, in autumn & winter & a max of 26% in summer.
I have been trying to get him to install an immersion heater for hot water as power would be free during the day & you have permanent hot water. against being heated by gas as & when required. 9 gas bottles pays for the electric immersion & usage is free.
He went to a private company that his neighbour had used. Probably if he had gone to Iberdrola they would have told him the same as me that he would be generating it for them to sell.

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[EuroTrotters]

Over here Endesa has what's called a virtual battery.
You get 10c for any spare leccy you sell to the grid.
And buy any extra you need at 12c

Saves thousands on batteries.

I am not sure what the feed in rate is with iberdrola if any. But MiSolar said we could change to another company in the future, can't recall the company / supplier name.

Here you get nothing for any excess going back to the grid & pay at a different "solar power" rate for anything you use.The amount is cahrgeable by the hour the same as you pay by the hour.

Todays rates vary from 2,2cents per Kwh up to 12,4cents


That would just be a further waste of money as if he isn't using the huge amount he generates during the day then he doesn't need a supply from batteries at night. Even now we have managed to get them to use the pool pump during the day , when needed, also washing machine etc. The average use is 13%,of generated power, in autumn & winter & a max of 26% in summer.
I have been trying to get him to install an immersion heater for hot water as power would be free during the day & you have permanent hot water. against being heated by gas as & when required. 9 gas bottles pays for the electric immersion & usage is free.
He went to a private company that his neighbour had used. Probably if he had gone to Iberdrola they would have told him the same as me that he would be generating it for them to sell.

See above re feed in.

I Installed a Daikin Condesning Combi Gas Central Heating boiler in Spain

That replaced and ageing Valiant Combi

The valiant Combi broke down mid Summer Holiday rentals. So we managed to get a friend of a Friend to fit an 80 litre electric wall mounted Hot Water Tank. I have kept this tank in-place and it is teed into the hot water system as a back up if the Daikin Boiler Failed. It did error out when the gas ran out. Idiots in the house and reps in resort could not figure out how to re-set. So it was switched to Electric. *

I could utilise that electric heater and this would be virtually no gas used, especially if we replaced the gas hob with Electric. We rarely use the Gas CH as we use the A/C for heating .

*Typical renters who shower for an hour. They could not cope with 80l between them for showers. Is I had to pay someone €25 to call over and re-set it.

So I guess after what I have just said. I would have to replaced the Electric Tank with a 150 l to prevent any problems with capacity !

Broken Link Removed

 

[starquake]

Ref; Solar and electric tanks -> may be worth some of you guys in spain looking at "Harvi" units from myenergi as these divert incoming solar to the electric water heating preventing export.

The other thing if available rather than Solis inverters which are cheap but have a critical failure mode if a string dies - is you may want to consider SolarEdge inverter type panel system if you have partial shading at any point (unlikely in Spain but worth knowing), the increase in performance over a Solis can be considered very useful potentially (they are higher cost). These use connectors on each panel and also lower the voltages when connecting up panels making it a safer affair (if the controller can't talk to the panel then there is only 1v on the connection). Equally means you can diagnose individual panel performance which most inverters can't do.

That said the quotes above don't look too bad .. it is a shame that Spain makes export so non-optimal compared with UK pricing today though.

I have no opinion on which battery is best -> but I think if I was doing solar, I'd do the edge system over a normal string if only for the observability).

 

[gus-lopez]

feed in rate is with iberdrola if any.

There isn't any down here so I would assume there isn't any at all? we have an 'app' that arrives each night at 8,30pm showing the rate for each hour for the next day - It has 2 rates peasants who pay in full & those with solar panels who pay at a much lower rate.

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[EuroTrotters]

Over here Endesa has what's called a virtual battery.
You get 10c for any spare leccy you sell to the grid.
And buy any extra you need at 12c

Saves thousands on batteries.

Here you get nothing for any excess going back to the grid & pay at a different "solar power" rate for anything you use.The amount is cahrgeable by the hour the same as you pay by the hour.

Todays rates vary from 2,2cents per Kwh up to 12,4cents


That would just be a further waste of money as if he isn't using the huge amount he generates during the day then he doesn't need a supply from batteries at night. Even now we have managed to get them to use the pool pump during the day , when needed, also washing machine etc. The average use is 13%,of generated power, in autumn & winter & a max of 26% in summer.
I have been trying to get him to install an immersion heater for hot water as power would be free during the day & you have permanent hot water. against being heated by gas as & when required. 9 gas bottles pays for the electric immersion & usage is free.
He went to a private company that his neighbour had used. Probably if he had gone to Iberdrola they would have told him the same as me that he would be generating it for them to sell.

I am led to believe LIDERA Energy are best for reducing bills.

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[EuroTrotters]

No subsidies around here. My mate & his spanish neighbour just paid for their systems. There is no feed in tariff you just pay less for the electricity you use when solar not generating. basically you need to be using what you generate to make it worthwhile .Unlike my mate who generated in january 13kwh & uses less than one
Iberdrola told me my usage wouldn't even make it worthwhile as the payback period would be colossal.

It would be returned as a deduction on tax paid at the La Renta declaration in june. Ok if you pay anything.

I can't see how they can do that? the original was 25 year guaranteed feed in tariffs,that the bearded one then unilaterally rescinded bankrupting many homeowners. Grants don't & won't replace a feed in tariff income & reduced cost electricity when the solar is not generating as if you cannot use it all you are supplying it to the company free of charge whilst having paid yourself for the installation costs to allow them to make money by selling it to those without solar power installs..

That would be over 20 years to me to get back :I'd be long dead.

Mole valley farmers in Devon used to offer a 4Kw system installed for 4,995.

I have stayed with Iberdrola this year

€0.15 per kw from the grid inc IVA
€0.08 per kw going back to grid from our solar.

 

[Nigel Crompton]

Iberdrola, Murcia.
€0.15 per kw from the grid inc IVA, DAY rate
@ €0.10 per kw from the grid inc IVA, NIGHT (2300-1300hrs, summertime) rate
€0.08 per kw going back to grid from our solar.
I believe that the latter can only be offset against consumption*; we always pay the standing charge and all the power we provide during the summer when we're not here is just pure profit for Iberdrola. I am looking to change supplier ....
From Endesa's website:

• In the calculation of the surplus compensation, there is a regulated limit called the "compensation limit", which means that you cannot be financially compensated with a value higher than the kWh you have consumed from the grid. This limit does not always appear on the bill, it only applies when the amount of energy fed into the grid exceeds the amount of energy consumed from the grid."

When our installation subsidy paperwork was submitted by the installers, we had to provide details of a bank account with a EU based IBAN (EG:Wise). I expect subsidy to be paid into that, not via tax rebate ...

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[Carpmart]

Maybe I’m missing an important point (?) but why don’t you size solar panel requirements for actual usage requirements of the property and then store in a large lithium bank for use when required. In the winter or a low yield solar period, get on an electric tariff which alows for cheap overnight electric so you can top up the batteries when cheap and use when more expensive…

I would have thought this will be way more economical to do this way, rather than the complexities of trying to feed in to the grid?

For context, I'm a layman with home solar.

 

[Nigel Crompton]

Maybe I’m missing an important point (?) but why don’t you size solar panel requirements for actual usage requirements of the property and then store in a large lithium bank for use when required. In the winter or a low yield solar period, get on an electric tariff which alows for cheap overnight electric so you can top up the batteries when cheap and use when more expensive…

I would have thought this will be way more economical to do this way, rather than the complexities of trying to feed in to the grid?

For context, I'm a layman with home solar.

Can't argue with that, there are too many individual variables to consider ...

 

[jumar]

Our Spanish electric bill is minimal...no need to change anything, however some posters on here should be continuing to source a greener alternative...

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[Nigel Crompton]

Our Spanish electric bill is minimal...no need to change anything, however some posters on here should be continuing to source a greener alternative...

You're never at home !