Solar and B2B (2 Viewers)

[Lanerboy]

Hi All
I am looking at getting solar fitted to my carthago 2019 model mh, i have 2 standard leisure batreries but will be upgrading to lithium but not till after the solar install.
Now I'm not tech savvy so bear with me but do i need a B2B fitting when i have it installed, I'm having 350w of solar with a victron control unit.
Also what is a B2B and is there a benifit in having one, please explain in very simple terms if possible so i can try and understand it

 

[Otter Spotter]

LennyHB will be along soon to give you sound advice, but the main thing is to ensure you get the right Solar controller, I don’t think you will go far wrong if you try and use Victronic equipment.
good luck

 

[Lenny HB]

2019 was the year Fiat started fitting a smart alternator to the Motorhome market, if engine is Euro 6 D it will have a smart alternator so will have a B2B.

With the normal split charge relay your initial charge to the leisure battery starting at around 20-25 amps after 10 min it will drop to 12-15 amps.
If you fit a 30 amp B2B it will charge at 30 Amps until the battery is charged, a 60 amp one will charge at 60 amps until the battery is charged.
B2B's also have charging profiles so they charge the battery correctly for the type of battery.

When you fit a Lithium a B2B will allow you to take advantage of the fast charging rates of Lithium and it will turn off the charge current when the battery is charged, also, it will stop the Lithium overloading the alternator.

 

[Lanerboy]

Thanks Lenny should have said its a 2019 reg but built late 2018, log book says the engine is a Euro 6Y so does this mean i dont require a B2B then, sorry if my questions seem dumb but i do struggle with electrics and understanding them

 

[Lenny HB]

You don't need one with a lead battery but it would give you a much better charge rate. Always advisable to fit one with Lithium.

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[Kannon Fodda]

The B2B is for charging leisure batteries from the engine. Had nothing to do with solar. At moment if you are just adding solar to standard batteries the B2B is irrelevant. When you change to lithium batteries that is the time to assess if the alternator system means you need a B2B. With solar just be sure for your future lithium that the solar controller has a lithium charge profile. Decent Votronic Victron MPPT solar controllers will be fine.

 

[Lanerboy]

Oh ok yes we are having a decent victron MPPT controller with lithium option,

i have just been reading that euro 6 engines only have a smart alternator if equiped with start stop which apparently is not an option on motorhomes so i presume no fiat motorhomes have smart alternators but do stand to be corrected because i can remember an occasion when hab batteries were on about 60% but after driving to next place the hab batteries were full by the time i got there so im confused

 

[Lenny HB]

i have just been reading that euro 6 engines only have a smart alternator if equiped with start stop which apparently is not an option on motorhomes so i presume no fiat motorhomes have smart alternators

Read my first paragraph in post #3, they had to fit smart alternators all part of reducing emissions to the latest standards. Fiat based Motorhomes built from September 2019, 2020 models will have a smart alternator.

 

[Lanerboy]

Cheers Lenny so mine will not as its late 2018 build and Euro 6Y not 6D

 

[Ber090]

Hi Lenny, Just for your info I have recently discovered that my Autosleeper Warwick xl built on a Fiat euro6d has a smart alternator but no b2b. Autosleeper decided not to fit a b2b due to a desire to keep emissions down ( Yes I know) They fit a 60amp lithium and 80w solar panel. Electronics by Sargent. After discussing with Sargent I updated lithium to 150amp as no roof space for more solar. LIONTRON the battery maker are happy and Sargent are happy with cables and a fuse change. I will fit a B2B.
Cheers Bernie

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[Lenny HB]

That doesn't surprise me with Autosleeper they like a most Brit manufacturers they wire their vans with grossly undersized cables.

My friend & neighbour had an Autosleeper I took one look at the wiring and with my advice he partly rewired it and doubled up a lot of the wiring which solved a lot of the volt drop problems.

I don't take much notice of what charger distribution unit manufacturers say when ask them about suitabilty of their equipment when their sole customers are them manufacturers as they are not going to say anything that makes the manufacturer look a fool.
People have had advice from Sargent saying they chargers are fine to use with Gel batteries where they are not cabable of fully charging a Gel as they don't have a long absorbtion phase that a gel needs.

You might want to look at replacing the solar controller it's a very basic PWM unit sitting in the back of the Sargent unit.

 

[Ditcha]

It's the 6D temp adblue that have the B2B fitted not the 6D, we also have stop start that's a pain in the ass on a 180bhp auto 6D temp adblue,

 

[Lenny HB]

It's the 6D temp adblue that have the B2B fitted not the 6D, we also have stop start that's a pain in the ass on a 180bhp auto 6D temp adblue,

It's the smart alternator that needs the B2B or the leisure battery will never get a proper charge. I think all the German converters fit them. Doesn't surprise me to hear that not all Brit converters fit them.

I hate stop/start my car has it but after the battery got a bit low after a couple of years it stopped working so it's been fine for the last 8 years, dreading having to fit a new battery soon.

 

[Ber090]

It's the 6D temp adblue that have the B2B fitted not the 6D, we also have stop start that's a pain in the ass on a 180bhp auto 6D temp adblue,

Hi Ditcha, We have stop start fitted. I presume that B2B is fitted by converter not Fiat.

 

[Barti Ddu]

Read my first paragraph in post #3, they had to fit smart alternators all part of reducing emissions to the latest standards. Fiat based Motorhomes built from September 2019, 2020 models will have a smart alternator.

Not sure it is always the case. Our 2021 Ducato-based PVC is Euro 6d, adblue but no stop-start, but appears to have a standard alternator and no B2B. See this recent thread -

2021 Autotrail PVC - smart alternator?

From comments on here I had presumed that our 2021 Ducato based PVC (2.3L 140hp, Euro 6d, but not stop-start), would have a smart alternator. I also read that one of the ways to determine if a smart alternator is fitted is to check if a shunt is fitted across the negative battery terminal...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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[Ditcha]

Hi Ditcha, We have stop start fitted. I presume that B2B is fitted by converter not Fiat.

Yeah it's the converter who fit them we have a schaudt unit attached to the back of the passenger seat next to the EBL

 

[Ditcha]

Not sure it is always the case. Our 2021 Ducato-based PVC is Euro 6d, adblue but no stop-start, but appears to have a standard alternator and no B2B. See this recent thread -

2021 Autotrail PVC - smart alternator?

From comments on here I had presumed that our 2021 Ducato based PVC (2.3L 140hp, Euro 6d, but not stop-start), would have a smart alternator. I also read that one of the ways to determine if a smart alternator is fitted is to check if a shunt is fitted across the negative battery terminal...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

My understanding is in order to attain the Euro 6D temp they had to add the smart alternator and adblue

 

[Ditcha]

Not sure it is always the case. Our 2021 Ducato-based PVC is Euro 6d, adblue but no stop-start, but appears to have a standard alternator and no B2B. See this recent thread -

2021 Autotrail PVC - smart alternator?

From comments on here I had presumed that our 2021 Ducato based PVC (2.3L 140hp, Euro 6d, but not stop-start), would have a smart alternator. I also read that one of the ways to determine if a smart alternator is fitted is to check if a shunt is fitted across the negative battery terminal...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Just seen this in the options list you could be right about the smart alternator see option 0AA

 

[Longjohn]

Hi Lenny will my 2021 Hymer have a B2B as standard I would like to replace my battery with lithium or am I better get help with it?

Thanks

 

[Barti Ddu]

Ditcha - Yes - in the previous thread PDrill kindly supplied me with the build option list for my vehicle from the VIN number and this indicated no smart alternator. It did contain a few errors and anomalies though so not foolproof.

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[Lenny HB]

Hi Lenny will my 2021 Hymer have a B2B as standard I would like to replace my battery with lithium or am I better get help with it?

Thanks

Yes fairly cetian it will have Schaudt 25 amp B2B you might want to replace it with a bigger one.

 

[Longjohn]

Yes fairly cetian it will have Schaudt 25 amp B2B you might want to replace it with a bigger one.

What size would you recommend and do I need to do anything else, I appreciate your help and time.

Thanks

 

[Lenny HB]

The problem with Motorhomes is the converters do not buy of the standard options list so what you see on the Fiat options list is not necessarily what the converters are ordering.
Also Fiat do weird things, with the Comformatic box the hill hold was a no charge option but had to be specified by the customer. All the German converters had it but a lot of the Brit converters didn't bother. If the truth were known wouldn't surprise me if they got a price reduction for not having it.

 

[Lenny HB]

What size would you recommend and do I need to do anything else, I appreciate your help and time.

Thanks

If you want to keep the wiring standard via the EBL the Votronic 45 amp would be good choice. You could go to a 60 amp one then you would need to bypass the EBL.
Idealy also replace the mains charger and if you have solar make sure the controller has a Lithium profile.

 

[Longjohn]

If you want to keep the wiring standard via the EBL the Votronic 45 amp would be good choice. You could go to a 60 amp one then you would need to bypass the EBL.
Idealy also replace the mains charger and if you have solar make sure the controller has a Lithium profile

No solar just want to put lithium on thanks.

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[Longjohn]

Just taken a look it has a Schaudt wa 121545

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Just taken a look it has a Schaudt wa 121545

Hello, I'm following this thread, if possible, would you be able to upload a photo of the Schault units connection to the EBL/
Is it the 119?
Regards.
Mike.

 

[Lenny HB]

Just taken a look it has a Schaudt wa 121545

That's a goody can charge at 45/55/63&70 amps best to keep to 45 amps unless you bypass the EBL.

 

[Longjohn]

That's a goody can charge at 45/55/63&70 amps best to keep to 45 amps unless you bypass the EBL.

Thanks again, would I be able to fit 2x110 (lithium or similar) or just one using the 45 amps

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks again, would I be able to fit 2x110 (lithium or similar) or just one using the 45 amps

Yes but if you bypass the EBL you would be able to charge them really fast.

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