SOLD Smart Fourtwo with A Frame

[Clayton9]

The car is in good condition. Low mileage.

Has a partial service history (as pictured) and has 7 months MOT. Only the 2017 Service was missed.

Fantastic runner and gets upto 60mpg.

This car has a Braked A-frame manufactured by Armitage Trailers included. This cost £1250 and was bought 2 years ago. I have only actually towed the vehicle a dozen times.

Reason for sale is I am an assistant warden on a camp site and no longer need to tow a vehicle behind my Motorhome.

The car is priced to sell, is advertised elsewhere. So no offers please

No offers. Cash or Bank transfer on collection.

Vehicle is located where I work as an assistant warden at Chatsworth Park CAMC

IM me for further details

£5850

 

[The Dotties]

Could I ask how you have managed to set up for towing?
I’m led to believe the 453 smarties are unable to be towed due to the gearbox being fed from the engine.
I think there is a get around posted on the American site, but I am intrigued as to how you’ve done it
(A fellow smartie owner that would like to a frame. (Smart 42 six speed DCA))

 

[Ivor Lock]

Having just gone through the sale of a toad car, I have to advise that the towing system used may not be road legal.

Gov UK has issued "Guidance to A Frames" Update 10 May 2018.

This states quite plainly that where a "trailer" has it's own braking system then all four wheels must be capable of being braked. The weight of the towed vehicle becomes irrelevant. Overrun brakes CANNOT brake all four wheels.

This may well be the reason why towed cars are not allowed in the EU. EU regulations state that "where a vehicle is legal in the home state, it cannot be declared illegal in any other state."
It therefore follows that, if it not legal in the UK, it cannot be legal in the reast of the EU.

 

[Snowbird]

Having just gone through the sale of a toad car, I have to advise that the towing system used may not be road legal.

Gov UK has issued "Guidance to A Frames" Update 10 May 2018.

This states quite plainly that where a "trailer" has it's own braking system then all four wheels must be capable of being braked. The weight of the towed vehicle becomes irrelevant. Overrun brakes CANNOT brake all four wheels.

This may well be the reason why towed cars are not allowed in the EU. EU regulations state that "where a vehicle is legal in the home state, it cannot be declared illegal in any other state."
It therefore follows that, if it not legal in the UK, it cannot be legal in the reast of the EU.

Am not sure where this information came from "Overrun brakes CANNOT brake all four wheels", but mine certainly brakes all 4 wheels.

 

[Kevan]

So does mine

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[Carolyn and Kev]

Having just gone through the sale of a toad car, I have to advise that the towing system used may not be road legal.

Gov UK has issued "Guidance to A Frames" Update 10 May 2018.

This states quite plainly that where a "trailer" has it's own braking system then all four wheels must be capable of being braked. The weight of the towed vehicle becomes irrelevant. Overrun brakes CANNOT brake all four wheels.

This may well be the reason why towed cars are not allowed in the EU. EU regulations state that "where a vehicle is legal in the home state, it cannot be declared illegal in any other state."
It therefore follows that, if it not legal in the UK, it cannot be legal in the reast of the EU.

Your information is incorrect my friend. Over run braking system works like a caravan but ..applies the brakes to all four wheels . SO ....It is more than acceptable in this country and if supplied by a recognised company...It will come with a EU certificate stating its quality of build and also its ability to cater for ALL needs making it acceptable in the EU.

Kev

 

[Ivor Lock]

apologies. I should have made it plain that the particular one used with that vehicle may not be legal, My reason for saying so is purely safety, if it is not legal, then in the event of an accident, the insurance may well refuse to pay out.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

The 'Over run' braking systems work fine if the vehicle is under the 1000 kg barrier. Above it, the law's a little Grey? Some can , and do use their "toads"..some should not. It is a gamble that is true. Smart cars come under the 'banner' of being ...OK.
That is why there are more smart for two A frame cars on the road at present than anything else! Having said that...Hyundai I10 is getting close!

Kev

 

[The Dotties]

Clayton9
Think I forgetted to put the op name in my question?

 

[tonyidle]

The 'Over run' braking systems work fine if the vehicle is under the 1000 kg barrier. Above it, the law's a little Grey? Some can , and do use their "toads"..some should not. It is a gamble that is true. Smart cars come under the 'banner' of being ...OK.
That is why there are more smart for two A frame cars on the road at present than anything else! Having said that...Hyundai I10 is getting close!

Kev

In the UK toads are tolerated and regarded as trailers. I'm not sure where your "1000kg barrier" comes from as it would put many / all caravans in the grey area.

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[Carolyn and Kev]

In the UK toads are tolerated and regarded as trailers. I'm not sure where your "1000kg barrier" comes from as it would put many / all caravans in the grey area.

You have fallen at the first hurdle regarding this sorry but ....Straight away you have put all towed vehicles under the same cloak and made it a problem when it actually is not.

Towtal..Car a Tow ..L and B ...Armitage trailers and tow bars...I could go on. The figures are there for you to research should you wish. All Over run cars at 750 kgs are legal to tow with out added electronic braking .
Caravans have their own brake system applied in a different manner. The hitch acts on the Caravan brake system applying the brakes where as the over run on a "Toad" is different hence the 750 kg to 1000 kg limit. It all comes down to HOW the brake is applied by the towed vehicle.

We have been down this road many a time and I know you could argue until the cows come home or jump over the moon or whatever...but companies will still produce "Over run " brake systems for cars up to 1000 kgs and provide a certificate stating that its safe to use and to the current EU spec.

All the legal information is readily available on any web site where they manufacture A frames for all cars.

Dont get me wrong here but ...Research before condemning either the system or the information that is out there. There are a lot of folk who pull a car of all sorts. They have paid out anything from £900 to £2500...Yes £2500! I know its ludicrous but..they all work whichever you decide on buying. It really comes down to the individual at the end of the day. I have had three smart for twos and now a fiat 500, all of which were Over run set up and two done at Tow-tal the other two at Car a Tow. No electronic brake set up in any of them . All have performed without issues at all.
The fiat 500 is 980kgs and works really well. I wanted to go for a Citroen DS3 initially , where it was 1165kgs but I was then told that the extra weight needed the electronic brake system and this would be fitted at a higher cost . This information was from all of the above companies and not one just scouting for work.

Regards Kev

 

[tonyidle]

You have fallen at the first hurdle regarding this sorry but ....Straight away you have put all towed vehicles under the same cloak and made it a problem when it actually is not.

Towtal..Car a Tow ..L and B ...Armitage trailers and tow bars...I could go on. The figures are there for you to research should you wish. All Over run cars at 750 kgs are legal to tow with out added electronic braking .
Caravans have their own brake system applied in a different manner. The hitch acts on the Caravan brake system applying the brakes where as the over run on a "Toad" is different hence the 750 kg to 1000 kg limit. It all comes down to HOW the brake is applied by the towed vehicle.

We have been down this road many a time and I know you could argue until the cows come home or jump over the moon or whatever...but companies will still produce "Over run " brake systems for cars up to 1000 kgs and provide a certificate stating that its safe to use and to the current EU spec.

All the legal information is readily available on any web site where they manufacture A frames for all cars.

Dont get me wrong here but ...Research before condemning either the system or the information that is out there. There are a lot of folk who pull a car of all sorts. They have paid out anything from £900 to £2500...Yes £2500! I know its ludicrous but..they all work whichever you decide on buying. It really comes down to the individual at the end of the day. I have had three smart for twos and now a fiat 500, all of which were Over run set up and two done at Tow-tal the other two at Car a Tow. No electronic brake set up in any of them . All have performed without issues at all.
The fiat 500 is 980kgs and works really well. I wanted to go for a Citroen DS3 initially , where it was 1165kgs but I was then told that the extra weight needed the electronic brake system and this would be fitted at a higher cost . This information was from all of the above companies and not one just scouting for work.

Regards Kev

Don't understand any of that - you're pushing an open door. Although I'm surprised to be told that caravans use a different system to over-run. The following applies to toads and as far as I know is the only Government advice on the subject.

A-frames

www.gov.uk

 

[Ivor Lock]

Have people forgotten to read and understand.

Trailers under 750kgs do not need brakes, but trailers (irrespective of mass) which have working braking systems, then all brakes must operate correctly and efficiently.

This means the braking systems of small "microcars" (under 750kgs) in weight must still operate, even when the vehicle is being towed.

Source: www.gov.uk A-frames. updated 10 May 2018
and European Law

 

[Snowbird]

My Smarty is obviously fine as it has the electronic braking system. It must be OK as I towed it from Liverpool to Geneva and from Geneva to Reil on the Mosel without any problems or police intervention. I will be towing it back to the UK next week and do not envisage any issues. The simple answer is, if you choose to Aframe or choose to use a trailer, its your choice. Take it or leave it.

 

[Ivor Lock]

an intelligent man. I bet he can write as well.

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[Charlie9038]

Is this auto or manual?

 

[corconx]

Is this auto or manual?

Smart cars are both. Drive in auto or manual

Carol

 

[Mikey RV]

I think all this should be on another thread if your going to have a debate about A frames again. The op is trying to sell his toad and A frame, anyone who wants this set up will have done their research and if they are happy will contact the op.

 

[The Dotties]

‘Its an old thread