Smart Alternators

[Clive Mott]

Has anybody had problems on new UK motorhomes with smart alternators with the leisure battery not charging, the fridge not working when mobile? Asking for a friend.

 

[Lyrick]

Yes I had a problem. Fridge worked whilst mobile but because the leisure battery wasn't being charged ,and the fridge was running on 12volt, it took a hammering until I got to site and EHU . Dealer fitted a B2B charger and a battery master. Problem sorted.

Patrick

 

[eddie]

Has anybody had problems on new UK motorhomes with smart alternators with the leisure battery not charging, the fridge not working when mobile? Asking for a friend.

Loads are coming through almost like a Hybrid

Smart alternator chassis, crappy standard split charge system

Dealers clueless telling people that " I don't believe Westphalia (one of many for example) would have done that" when we report the issue !

When quizzed more about do they know how a Smart Alternator works, or why putting a couple of leisure batteries in parallel with the engine is a bad idea, they admit that "No they don't know"

 

[Neil S]

Yes I had a problem. Fridge worked whilst mobile but because the leisure battery wasn't being charged ,and the fridge was running on 12volt, it took a hammering until I got to site and EHU . Dealer fitted a B2B charger and a battery master. Problem sorted.

Patrick

Seems to be fair number of Pilote owners have had this problem
If you on the Pilote owners Facebook page there is regularly folks complaining.
My present P650GJ doesn’t have the problem as it’s a 2018 model but my new still to be collected A class will have one of these smart alternators
I’m expecting some issues

 

[Podney]

So smart alternators are a bit like smart motorways……….not so smart after all! It’s a bit dim for manufacturers to install them inappropriately…..but,there again,are we surprised?!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tombola]

Some convertors ordered vans with standard alternators up to about 2018/19
dont assume its smart

 

[Pausim]

So smart alternators are a bit like smart motorways……….not so smart after all! It’s a bit dim for manufacturers to install them inappropriately…..but,there again,are we surprised?!

Smart alternators are a great idea, saving wasted fuel and making sure the full power of the engine is available when you need it. It is entirely the fault of some manufacturers for not fitting systems suitable for modern vehicles.

For many years some base vehicle manufacturers were disabling the smart alternators for constructors, I believe it was just a matter of turning the software off. However now that vehicle testing standards have been tightened up they can no longer get away with cheating. Time they were all fitting B2Bs/boosters, the technology has been around for long enough.

The special requirements of charging leisure batteries from a smart alternator was immediately apparent to me when I bought a Mercedes based motorhome in 2015 and I find it hard to believe that some manufacturers are still ignoring the issue.

 

[sallylillian]

This started circa 2015. My Iveco Daily chassised Flair BY 2015 had a smart alternator as did others on here and the subject was acutely dissected. The result for Iveco owners at the time was to go to an Iveco dealer, get them to Hook up their laptop to the OBD port and switch the feature off. Iveco charged £70!
I believe that NiBi now have their own solution. So go to the chassis main dealer and get them to switch the feature off, and pay the tab. It is an emissions feature which means nothing to a motorhome because the chassis is modified.

 

[cmcardle75]

This started circa 2015. My Iveco Daily chassised Flair BY 2015 had a smart alternator as did others on here and the subject was acutely dissected. The result for Iveco owners at the time was to go to an Iveco dealer, get them to Hook up their laptop to the OBD port and switch the feature off. Iveco charged £70!
I believe that NiBi now have their own solution. So go to the chassis main dealer and get them to switch the feature off, and pay the tab. It is an emissions feature which means nothing to a motorhome because the chassis is modified.

Better to do it properly and get a B2B charger which will look after your battery rather than go old-school and fry it at 14.4V for however long you drive with a dumb alternator. With Lithium, the battery returns the favour and fries the alternator.

I simply wouldn't charge an expensive leisure battery from a dumb alternator. You're asking for damage. Get a reputable charger that understands CC/CV/float/storage charging profiles and can be tailored to your battery's chemistry.

 

[Pausim]

So go to the chassis main dealer and get them to switch the feature off,

They can’t because the emissions figures/testing now take into account the profile and weight of the vehicle. Anyway why would you want to disable it. Far better to get the manufacturer to fit a proper B2B/booster, it is what several manufacturers already do. Do you want them to go back to lying about the real figures?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[sallylillian]

They can’t because the emissions figures/testing now take into account the profile and weight of the vehicle. Anyway why would you want to disable it. Far better to get the manufacturer to fit a proper B2B/booster, it is what several manufacturers already do. Do you want them to go back to lying about the real figures?

I do not emissions figures on the V5's of my current Mercedes chassis based motorhome nor on the Daily Chassis of my Flair. Do you?

 

[Pausim]

I do not emissions figures on the V5's of my current Mercedes chassis based motorhome nor on the Daily Chassis of my Flair. Do you?

No my motorhome was registered in August 2019, just before the new rules came in. It is one of the last ones where Fiat got away with disabling the smart alternator. Newer ones need AdBlue and smart alternators to get through current more stringent tests (same Euro 6 standard with real world testing). I believe new motorhomes under this regime get emissions figures.

 

[jongood]

So smart alternators are a bit like smart motorways……….not so smart after all! It’s a bit dim for manufacturers to install them inappropriately…..but,there again,are we surprised?!

Its apparently because they help with fiddling the emmisions figures

 

[Pausim]

Its apparently because they help with fiddling the emmisions figures

I think it is more that manufacturers can no longer turn them off because they are no longer allowed to fiddle the emissions figures. They can only get the proper figures by using a smart alternator.

 

[jongood]

I think it is more that manufacturers can no longer turn them off because they are no longer allowed to fiddle the emissions figures. They can only get the proper figures by using a smart alternator.

With respect most of these figures are at best a guestimate, especially where bodies of varying size and weight are involved. A lot like EPC's- might as well be written by Hans Christian Anderson .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cmcardle75]

Basically a smart alterator has a proper multi-stage charger built in, complete with extra logic to efficiently supply other variable loads. This makes it much more efficient, but is hopeless at directly charging other remote batteries with a different chemistry and state of charge. They are a good thing to have. I would be upset if I had one and then had it disabled, so it fried my batteries and burnt more fuel. Far better to install the correct solution of an independent charger for your expensive leisure batteries rather than blasting 14.4V at them until they boil, which was the traditional solution.

 

[sallylillian]

No my motorhome was registered in August 2019, just before the new rules came in. It is one of the last ones where Fiat got away with disabling the smart alternator. Newer ones need AdBlue and smart alternators to get through current more stringent tests (same Euro 6 standard with real world testing). I believe new motorhomes under this regime get emissions figures.

I would be interested to see the V5 from which you make your assertion that all motorhomes now have to have emission figures on their registration; although I note you have downgraded to an "I believe" in the latest post. Chassis converters like motor home builders cannot possible complete the stringent testing and results submissions for every new model they don't have the volume to justify the costs. Although doubtless someone will find an anomaly.

 

[Pausim]

I note you have downgraded to an "I believe" in the latest post.

Yes, I am not an expert and this is a complex area, there may have been further changes I have not heard of since the 01/09/2019 changes. I do however remember the outcry about the higher VED rates on motorhomes that followed this and I think this was about the use of newly available emissions figures on Euro 6D Temp engines in motorhomes. I also remember the Government back pedalling on this a few months later.

Anyway the main point is ably made by cmcardle75 above.

Basically a smart alterator has a proper multi-stage charger built in, complete with extra logic to efficiently supply other variable loads. This makes it much more efficient, but is hopeless at directly charging other remote batteries with a different chemistry and state of charge. They are a good thing to have. I would be upset if I had one and then had it disabled, so it fried my batteries and burnt more fuel. Far better to install the correct solution of an independent charger for your expensive leisure batteries rather than blasting 14.4V at them until they boil, which was the traditional solution.

 

[funflair]

I would be interested to see the V5 from which you make your assertion that all motorhomes now have to have emission figures on their registration; although I note you have downgraded to an "I believe" in the latest post. Chassis converters like motor home builders cannot possible complete the stringent testing and results submissions for every new model they don't have the volume to justify the costs. Although doubtless someone will find an anomaly.

Hi Michael

I agree with what Pausim that there were to be big changes a couple of years ago when 6d temp and then 6d were coming in, and the theory was that the emission figures would reflect closely the actual vehicle rather than just the chassis that it was built on, this was going to be the basis for the increased VED that ultimately got dropped at the budget.

You will see from our V5 that emissions are not itemised.

 

[sallylillian]

Hi Michael

I agree with what Pausim that there were to be big changes a couple of years ago when 6d temp and then 6d were coming in, and the theory was that the emission figures would reflect closely the actual vehicle rather than just the chassis that it was built on, this was going to be the basis for the increased VED that ultimately got dropped at the budget.

You will see from our V5 that emissions are not itemised.

View attachment 511184

In Pausim post #10 he intimated that emissions were now included in the registration so disabling the smart alternator was not allowed. I corrected that insofar as motor homes do not have emissions on the V5 due to the change of structure. As indeed your attachment confirms. It is the same as mine from June 2019. Or am I missing something.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[funflair]

They can’t because the emissions figures/testing now take into account the profile and weight of the vehicle. Anyway why would you want to disable it. Far better to get the manufacturer to fit a proper B2B/booster, it is what several manufacturers already do. Do you want them to go back to lying about the real figures?

Certainly in 2015/16 it was as Michael describes, N+B were building on the daily chassis but habitation batteries were not getting charge via a simple split charge system due to the way the "smart alternator" monitored the chassis battery, a bit of google searching revealed an IVECO body builders manual which specifically mentioned auxiliary batteries and how the alternator "smart" features should be modified/switched off.

I know on later vehicles this was not an issue as the modification was done earlier in the production process or did they fit B2B ? (I am not sure), our "Palace" has a "lade booster" or B2B but we have LiFePO4 batteries, again I am not 100% sure but I think a basic "Home" with one Gel battery would not have the lade booster/B2B.

 

[Pausim]

In Pausim post #10 he intimated that emissions were now included in the registration so disabling the smart alternator was not allowed. I corrected that insofar as motor homes do not have emissions on the V5 due to the change of structure. As indeed your attachment confirms. It is the same as mine from June 2019. Or am I missing something.

They stopped using emissions for VED purposes after a few months so perhaps they also stopped putting them on the V5C. They may well still be on the Certificate of Conformity. My CoC which predates the 01/09/20 changes by a few months includes CO, THC and Nox figures but not CO2.

 

[funflair]

In Pausim post #10 he intimated that emissions were now included in the registration so disabling the smart alternator was not allowed. I corrected that insofar as motor homes do not have emissions on the V5 due to the change of structure. As indeed your attachment confirms. It is the same as mine from June 2019. Or am I missing something.

They were supposed to be included with the latest Euro 6d standard which is where the rumoured £2000 VED was coming from a few years ago as the VED level was dictated by emission figures, indeed a few unlucky people were caught out by this between the rules coming in September and then being kicked out in the budget, I presume that their V5 did show emission figures.

 

[Lyrick]

Emissions are included on my V5 . It's a Euro 6D with a smart alternator and I wasn't hit with the high VED.

Patrick

 

[funflair]

Emissions are included on my V5 . It's a Euro 6D with a smart alternator and I wasn't hit with the high VED.

Patrick


View attachment 511205

Interesting, have they not always been on PLG sub 3500kg, I was specifically talking about PHGV 3500kg to 7495kg which is where the little knowledge I have is focussed.

And it says Euro 6C1.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lyrick]

Interesting, have they not always been on PLG sub 3500kg, I was specifically talking about PHGV 3500kg to 7495kg which is where the little knowledge I have is focussed.

Our previous PLG motorhome, circa 2010, did not have any emission figures on the V5

Patrick