Site Costs (1 Viewer)

[OutTheOffice]

This is not supposed to be another moan about the cost of C&MC club site costs. But it is clear rising costs are an issue for many. So it has started me thinking about how the club / business could ( if it felt inclined ) reduce costs for pitches.

The first thing I would love to know is how the costs for running a site are distributed -- and which ones are fixed and which are variable, does anyone know,? this would tell you the scope for cost cutting ( can't do much about business rates). There must be ways to cut costs without too much detriment to the quality of the experience. Some ideas I have had:

1. Look at the whole booking in process, the need to go twice to reception seems over kill, make it once, or not at all could help reduce staffing
2. Reduce the number of times the grass is cut and hedges trimmed, its a campsite not a garden and it would reduce noise. Again might lead to staff reductions
3. On the continent most sites have 10amp electricity or less, if you are careful not to run heavy use appliances at the same time this never causes an issue -- would that cut costs
4. Could the density of the sites be increased by introducing an aire type of area on the sites for motorhomes -- or are we too wedded to the spacing rules. More vans, the greater the income etc
5. Outsource the cleaning of the toilets to a third party, could well save costs and reduce staff levels

I just wonder whether there is scope to reduce costs and if there would be a will to do it. Does anyone have thoughts on this? If enough good ideas come from this thread, could summaries them and fire them off to the club as pro-active suggestions, rather than just a whinge.

 

[TinaLes]

First ones I can think of for now, off the top so to speak.
1. Offer Non EHU Pitches, on ALL sites, for self sufficient campers.
2. Put a metered supply on every pitch that wants an EHU, so you pay for what you use, rather than make sure you get your monies worth.
3. Offer 2 levels of stay, one with full facilities like shower Block,WC,& Wash Up facilities, one without.
4. Maybe extend any existing off peak offers, like 4 nights for 3 in low season, or mid week.
5. Given sufficient room, then yes offer an Aire type facility, maybe limited to one or two nights max with limited facilities like water & dump only.

That will do for now, I will keep thinking, but cant see The CMC adopting change as they don't seem to like doing that.
LES

 

[L' Hobo]

Although I belong to both Clubs, I rarely use C&MC sites so I do not understand. Why does one have to visit reception twice?

When I use the CCC sites, I book on line and pay deposit, when I arrive at site, the balance is automatically taken from my credit card.
I, usually, do not have to leave my vehicle and someone comes out, asks my name, ticks off there list and someone shows me to pitch.

The spacing rule is something that the Caravan Club stipulated some years ago, its their rule, so one supposes, it could be changed but I hope not.

As for outsourcing the cleaning, if some people were a little more considerate about their own practices, such as using the toilet brush etc. supervising children and not leaving rubbish for others pick up after them. Perhaps less staff might be needed but I doubt it.

I would have thought that the easiest way any campsite could save money, would be to invest in more solar.

 

[Conal]

TinaL Re: not offering non electric pitches; the cost of installing the cables, posts, fuse boxes and sockets has to be recouped and their business plans will have informed them that to cater for all, they have set charges to include the facilities offered. It’s a bit like asking for a cheaper price because you are not going to use the rest of the infrastructure - toilets, showers, information room etc..

Whilst I would prefer to only pay for what I use, I think a ”one size fits all” policy is going to become more the norm.

 

[OutTheOffice]

Although I belong to both Clubs, I rarely use C&MC sites so I do not understand. Why does one have to visit reception twice?

When I use the CCC sites, I book on line and pay deposit, when I arrive at site, the balance is automatically taken from my credit card.
I, usually, do not have to leave my vehicle and someone comes out, asks my name, ticks off there list and someone shows me to pitch.

The spacing rule is something that the Caravan Club stipulated some years ago, its their rule, so one supposes, it could be changed but I hope not.

As for outsourcing the cleaning, if some people were a little more considerate about their own practices, such as using the toilet brush etc. supervising children and not leaving rubbish for others pick up after them. Perhaps less staff might be needed but I doubt it.

I would have thought that the easiest way any campsite could save money, would be to invest in more solar.

You have to go into reception on arrival to pay, then you go and find a pitch, then you need to go back and tell the wardens which pitch you have gone onto and get a numbered barrier card. This double contact, does on occasions lead to quite lengthy queues at busy times. We staid on a private site in Scotland last year where we had to pay before we arrived and were allocated a pitch number, there was no requirement to go into reception at all barrier worked on number plate recognition,

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[TinaLes]

TinaL Re: not offering non electric pitches; the cost of installing the cables, posts, fuse boxes and sockets has to be recouped and their business plans will have informed them that to cater for all, they have set charges to include the facilities offered. It’s a bit like asking for a cheaper price because you are not going to use the rest of the infrastructure - toilets, showers, information room etc..

Whilst I would prefer to only pay for what I use, I think a ”one size fits all” policy is going to become more the norm.

A "one size fits all" policy is not going to make CMC sites more affordable, with the rising costs of energy, the pitch fees will have to increase still further. A good example is that a small CL owned by a well known Funster has worked out that each van is currently drawing £12.50 a day in electric. His pitch fee is currently "£12 to 12.50 a night I think.
Non EHU pitches are available on some CMC sites, but not enough, heating a shower block, providing limitless hot water is also expensive, hence the high pitch fees.
The idea of this thread was ways that could maybe reduce pitch fees, offering a choice to those that want or don't want the full facilities, as like us, they prefer to use their own. Many are feeling that CMC sites if not already, will become unaffordable, especially for the caravaners staying typically longer at £30 plus per night, even more in peak season.
The CMC should already know this and be looking at ways of offering a more affordable package, its the only way I can see them stay the size they are in The UK.

Electrical:
Apart from regular 1 or 3 yearly Electrical Test inspection/reports, once the pitch electrical infrastructure is installed, then Thats it, unless regs change again and new equipment is needed, its paid for, apart from maintenance like breakages, blown RCD's etc.
I know this being an ex sparky, and doing regular installs & tests/inspections to whole range of domestic, commercial premises, single & 3 Phase
The elephant in the room just now, and in the future is rising energy costs to all of us, so we should be offered the choice of whether we want it or not. The CMC is already looking at becoming Greener by installing solar panels, with Battery banks and inverters, well that isn't cheap either, and definitely wont reduce electric costs to each pitch in the short to medium term, but will make them look like they are trying.
LES

 

[Conal]

TinaL Totally agree. We are mainly self sufficient but, whilst in the summer would want to pay little and use little, in the winter we would happily pay present all inclusive prices. I can’t see how this usage pattern can earn any site, or even a CL/CS enough to survive. It might be useful to look at price rises in Air B&Bs, B&Bs and motors/hotels. They are all facing the same increases in costs.
Do you think there is a future in basic (no electrics) seasonal pitches? I can see problems in so much as suppliers will want to maximise their opportunities to earn and, on popular sites, if you don’t want to pay, others will.

 

[Southend]

Charge for dogs?

 

[Littlewheels]

Charge for Cars

 

[Otter Spotter]

This is not supposed to be another moan about the cost of C&MC club site costs. But it is clear rising costs are an issue for many. So it has started me thinking about how the club / business could ( if it felt inclined ) reduce costs for pitches.

The first thing I would love to know is how the costs for running a site are distributed -- and which ones are fixed and which are variable, does anyone know,? this would tell you the scope for cost cutting ( can't do much about business rates). There must be ways to cut costs without too much detriment to the quality of the experience. Some ideas I have had:

1. Look at the whole booking in process, the need to go twice to reception seems over kill, make it once, or not at all could help reduce staffing
2. Reduce the number of times the grass is cut and hedges trimmed, its a campsite not a garden and it would reduce noise. Again might lead to staff reductions
3. On the continent most sites have 10amp electricity or less, if you are careful not to run heavy use appliances at the same time this never causes an issue -- would that cut costs
4. Could the density of the sites be increased by introducing an aire type of area on the sites for motorhomes -- or are we too wedded to the spacing rules. More vans, the greater the income etc
5. Outsource the cleaning of the toilets to a third party, could well save costs and reduce staff levels

I just wonder whether there is scope to reduce costs and if there would be a will to do it. Does anyone have thoughts on this? If enough good ideas come from this thread, could summaries them and fire them off to the club as pro-active suggestions, rather than just a whinge.

Your point 1.
I agree 2 visits is wasteful though I tend not to go back straightaway but tell them which pitch when I have had my first brew and are going for a reccy around the site. I am surprised that CAMC haven’t got the booking site organised to collect the balance on the day like CCC( actually I am not surprised, they don’t do ‘joined up thinking’ .
2. Staff Isn’t their biggest cost, most are on min wage as they get pitches free. Grass cutting does seem to be an excuse for someone to ride around to stay out of the way of reception and doesn’t need to be done as often as they do it.
3 I may be wrong but we in UK need the 16amps to provide for van heaters, coffee makers and Hairdryers (me only heater !) I would use Non EHU pitches to reduce costs and they would be cheaper to create.
4 Spacing is regulated by Elf and Safety, fire regs etc but the idea of Aire spacing with a 2 night max would be good, if they could get planning sorted. They don’t have any issues building lodges on plots at more expense but I suppose they are more profitable than Motorhome bookings.
5 third party cleaning may work but its easier if the staff don’t and they can keep on top of repairs and supplies which can cost if not managed properly

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[Reallyretired]

New forest sites seem to be busy in spite of many having no ehu or toilet blocks. Wardens office at some is only open for about an hour a day with one warden doing more than one site. These must be pretty cheap to run.

 

[Spriddler]

...... a small CL owned by a well known Funster has worked out that each van is currently drawing £12.50 a day in electric. His pitch fee is currently "£12 to 12.50 a night I think.

Blimey, not much hope of holding those pitch fees.
It'd be bizarre if site owners applied increased pitch fees in winter vs summer due to the leccy cost.

 

[Gellyneck]

I am surprised that CAMC haven’t got the booking site organised to collect the balance on the day like CCC( actually I am not surprised, they don’t do ‘joined up thinking’ .

Could be wrong but think the new system does allow that if you request it.

 

[Oldrat]

Dunno
Don’t stay on them.
Don’t want to stay on them.
Different folks different strokes.

I’d happily pay a going rate for emptying waste and replenishing our water.


“Leave no trace”

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
Tried to drop out of the rat race,went Ass.wardening. Toilets... Was up at 05.00hrs ( NOT a problem ) To check and clean both sets of loo's.So when the campers started to get about they were clean. Again after dinner and again 18.00 hrs. THATS going to cost to farm it out. Allocating pitches. To maximise pitches,some will be a bit smaller/not such a nice view,some people need to be near the loo,some as far away as possible. We gave up when house prices started rocketing,to get back on the housing ladder. At a Yorkshire CMC site we had a Twin axle c/van,it was a bit long... and were asked if we could park "Across " a pitch in a corner,no problem.
So,size DOES matter.
Electric ? Keep it at the same power,but run it through a meter,i have a friend who says openly " I have paid for it,so i will use it " Heater on in the awning when its empty..... A Meter,might make him think again.
You know the conditions when you join. Beware of " Seasonal Pitches " being advertised. THESE will lower the overall number of pitches available for the Touring members,both M/ho and C/van, enjoy it while you can.So as not to offend anyone.. The Power,is still making people...but stopped making land. An altered by me quote at the start,by a Jewish Gentleman when i was looking at some land. Never forget it The Force be with you.
Tea Bag

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[L' Hobo]

You have to go into reception on arrival to pay, then you go and find a pitch, then you need to go back and tell the wardens which pitch you have gone onto and get a numbered barrier card. This double contact, does on occasions lead to quite lengthy queues at busy times. We staid on a private site in Scotland last year where we had to pay before we arrived and were allocated a pitch number, there was no requirement to go into reception at all barrier worked on number plate recognition,

Is there no way you can pay in full before arriving and I'm sure they are hoping people will be happier IF they can choose their own pitch instead of being allocated one?

 

[L' Hobo]

A "one size fits all" policy is not going to make CMC sites more affordable, with the rising costs of energy, the pitch fees will have to increase still further. A good example is that a small CL owned by a well known Funster has worked out that each van is currently drawing £12.50 a day in electric. His pitch fee is currently "£12 to 12.50 a night I think.
Non EHU pitches are available on some CMC sites, but not enough, heating a shower block, providing limitless hot water is also expensive, hence the high pitch fees.
The idea of this thread was ways that could maybe reduce pitch fees, offering a choice to those that want or don't want the full facilities, as like us, they prefer to use their own. Many are feeling that CMC sites if not already, will become unaffordable, especially for the caravaners staying typically longer at £30 plus per night, even more in peak season.
The CMC should already know this and be looking at ways of offering a more affordable package, its the only way I can see them stay the size they are in The UK.

Electrical:
Apart from regular 1 or 3 yearly Electrical Test inspection/reports, once the pitch electrical infrastructure is installed, then Thats it, unless regs change again and new equipment is needed, its paid for, apart from maintenance like breakages, blown RCD's etc.
I know this being an ex sparky, and doing regular installs & tests/inspections to whole range of domestic, commercial premises, single & 3 Phase
The elephant in the room just now, and in the future is rising energy costs to all of us, so we should be offered the choice of whether we want it or not. The CMC is already looking at becoming Greener by installing solar panels, with Battery banks and inverters, well that isn't cheap either, and definitely wont reduce electric costs to each pitch in the short to medium term, but will make them look like they are trying.
LES

I know that electricity prices are increasing but, £12.50 a day! I spend a lot less than that heating my 3bedroom house, my PVC cannot cost anywhere near that surely?

I think he needs to get his meters checked?

 

[TheMachMan]

Just posted on another thread that Baltic Wharf Bristol will be charging £42 per night for the last 2 weeks of March. No site investment as it‘s being shut. Assume it’s so popular they can almost name their price.

 

[iandsm]

This is not supposed to be another moan about the cost of C&MC club site costs. But it is clear rising costs are an issue for many. So it has started me thinking about how the club / business could ( if it felt inclined ) reduce costs for pitches.

The first thing I would love to know is how the costs for running a site are distributed -- and which ones are fixed and which are variable, does anyone know,? this would tell you the scope for cost cutting ( can't do much about business rates). There must be ways to cut costs without too much detriment to the quality of the experience. Some ideas I have had:

1. Look at the whole booking in process, the need to go twice to reception seems over kill, make it once, or not at all could help reduce staffing
2. Reduce the number of times the grass is cut and hedges trimmed, its a campsite not a garden and it would reduce noise. Again might lead to staff reductions
3. On the continent most sites have 10amp electricity or less, if you are careful not to run heavy use appliances at the same time this never causes an issue -- would that cut costs
4. Could the density of the sites be increased by introducing an aire type of area on the sites for motorhomes -- or are we too wedded to the spacing rules. More vans, the greater the income etc
5. Outsource the cleaning of the toilets to a third party, could well save costs and reduce staff levels

I just wonder whether there is scope to reduce costs and if there would be a will to do it. Does anyone have thoughts on this? If enough good ideas come from this thread, could summaries them and fire them off to the club as pro-active suggestions, rather than just a whinge.

But they don't feel so inclined, that's the problem

 

[martin2603]

Over the past week which of course has been exceptionally cold , using the washing machine tumblr drier and top oven , lights, tv etc it’s never got anywhere near £8.00 let alone £12.50. For electric on the smart meter. We have a detached property facing North with nothing behind us. So why don’t the sites reduce ampage to 5 or ten amps instead of 16? The gas CH also used leccy for the boiler pump and stat .

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[pelican]

Is there no way you can pay in full before arriving and I'm sure they are hoping people will be happier IF they can choose their own pitch instead of being allocated one?

yes you can pay in fool before you arrive

 

[Marty Gilly and Pup]

Our site which is 90% full up to and through the New Year, currently has multiple 8 foot illuminated Santas, outdoor Xmas trees, twinkling lights in abundance and heating on full blast on all pitches will be using an untold amount of electricity more than in summer. Most guests are out in the town while their Santa is beaming out at everyone else!
There are costs which could be cut here, but none without detrimental effect on the customers experience. They know it’s expensive here but they come in their droves. And return. Others who want no frills and no electric go elsewhere. There’s plenty of choice isn’t there?

 

[stevewagner]

A "one size fits all" policy is not going to make CMC sites more affordable, with the rising costs of energy, the pitch fees will have to increase still further. A good example is that a small CL owned by a well known Funster has worked out that each van is currently drawing £12.50 a day in electric. His pitch fee is currently "£12 to 12.50 a night I think.
Non EHU pitches are available on some CMC sites, but not enough, heating a shower block, providing limitless hot water is also expensive, hence the high pitch fees.
The idea of this thread was ways that could maybe reduce pitch fees, offering a choice to those that want or don't want the full facilities, as like us, they prefer to use their own. Many are feeling that CMC sites if not already, will become unaffordable, especially for the caravaners staying typically longer at £30 plus per night, even more in peak season.
The CMC should already know this and be looking at ways of offering a more affordable package, its the only way I can see them stay the size they are in The UK.

Electrical:
Apart from regular 1 or 3 yearly Electrical Test inspection/reports, once the pitch electrical infrastructure is installed, then Thats it, unless regs change again and new equipment is needed, its paid for, apart from maintenance like breakages, blown RCD's etc.
I know this being an ex sparky, and doing regular installs & tests/inspections to whole range of domestic, commercial premises, single & 3 Phase
The elephant in the room just now, and in the future is rising energy costs to all of us, so we should be offered the choice of whether we want it or not. The CMC is already looking at becoming Greener by installing solar panels, with Battery banks and inverters, well that isn't cheap either, and definitely wont reduce electric costs to each pitch in the short to medium term, but will make them look like they are trying.
LES

Changes in the regs are never retrospective, so any changes would only effect new installations.

 

[Wingingit#1]

People will always moan about prices , businesses still need to turn a profit .
like Marty says if its 'no frills' you want then choose that option and go somewhere that suits your budget .

 

[KiwiKampers]

I forget which club it is, but one of them does not provide clothes lines and insists that campers use their washing machines and dryers.
This is hardly friendly to the environment and would be an easy way to keep costs down, especially as the machinery always seems to breakdown.
I was told that washing lines were not provided because they were a health and safety issue - people could walk into them.

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[Gellyneck]

I forget which club it is, but one of them does not provide clothes lines and insists that campers use their washing machines and dryers.
This is hardly friendly to the environment and would be an easy way to keep costs down, especially as the machinery always seems to breakdown.
I was told that washing lines were not provided because they were a health and safety issue - people could walk into them.

Most folk seem to have their own drying lines with them.

 

[KiwiKampers]

Most folk seem to have their own drying lines with them.

Yes, I agree, but when I put my line up a very stroppy warden told me to take it down. Apparently, it was against the rules. “No-one wants to see your undies flapping in the wind.”

 

[mitzimad]

i doubt if out sourcing the cleaning would be cheaper the warders dont get much pay

 

[Gellyneck]

Yes, I agree, but when I put my line up a very stroppy warden told me to take it down. Apparently, it was against the rules. “No-one wants to see your undies flapping in the wind.

Surprising.
Used outs regularly

 

[Otter Spotter]

I know that electricity prices are increasing but, £12.50 a day! I spend a lot less than that heating my 3bedroom house, my PVC cannot cost anywhere near that surely?

I think he needs to get his meters checked?

I think that is because site pay commercial price for electric and it can be 4 times the domestic rate.

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