Single Glazing in Kingham/Warwick range - does is work?

[MillieMoocher]

Pretty much as per the title really..

We are off to SMC by appointment next Wednesday (14 April) to make our final decision between a Warwick XL and Kingham. Currently favouring the Kingham, but that can change on an hourly basis!

What they both have in common is single glazing, with some special coating that’s meant to make it “as good as” double glazed habitation windows we had in the Hymer.

The question is, does it really work? Does it insulate well against the cold? Do they steam up/end up running with condensation in the morning?

Thoughts awaited please from owners of PVC with these sort of window!

 

[Otter Spotter]

I have auto single glazing in my van and condensation builds up on glass overnight when it’s cooler outside, I use window pads that I made out of insulated foil which keeps us warmer and stops the condensation.
checking the Autsleeper website it appears the Warwick windows are the same as mine.

 

[dbnosey]

Hi I had a Warwick Duo for two and a half years from new. Great van for touring, well appointed after I had sorted it out. Fitted it out for off grid traveling extra batteries, solar panels, satellite dish, larger LPG underslung tank and fresh water tank heater. But it was only a two season van. I tried fitting extra insulation where possible but it didn't overcome the single glazed windows. The so called thermal film does reflect sunlight on hot days but does nothing in winter especially the window behind the drivers seat and in the front sliding door which have a small sliding window in both.
Storage was another problem for chairs, BBQ etc so I fitted a towbar with a rack and back box full width of the van, this caused a miner problem of not being able to open the rear doors when fitted.
All in all if they had fitted better insulation all-round proper double glazed windows I think Auto Sleeper could have constructed a better MH to challenge other makes. It does come out of Peugeot factory as a minibus.
For what its worth I did trade it in with SMC Newark for a Pilote coach built which we have used all year round in the coldest of weather for five years. Living in Lancashire and buying in Newark also caused problems with the small warranty problems which we've encountered, ie delaminated windscreen.
If you are set on a panel van DO have a look at the competition.
regards Colin

 

[MillieMoocher]

Thanks both for your responses - even though I’d hoped to hear “they work great, nothing to worry about”

dbnosey - having previously owned an A class I’m a bit concerned about the lack of storage for the sort of stuff you mention. That’s why we are currently edging towards the Kingham as there seems to be some storage under the French bed. But the washroom is severely compromised in the Kingham when compared to the Warwick XL...but then again we tend to stay on sites and the shower on the previous MH spent most of its time being a cupboard...

Re the competition - out of interest, what other PVC did you have on your list when you bought your Warwick?

Sadly well versed in having to travel for warranty work etc - we are in West Yorkshire and bought the last MH from Travelworld in Telford(ish). So kind of resigned to the fact we’d have to do a bit of travelling to SMC if anything was needed. I think though I’d rather do that than use the nearer dealers - Marquis - about whom I have zero experience but can’t remember anyone saying anything good about

 

[The Lord Squid]

I find that opening the front skylight to first setting helps with condensation, but I also use a Kärcher mini vac. On rare occasions I'm on a site Silver Screens stops windscreen condensation completely. For bikes I have a couple of Bromptons, one goes between the seats, the other strapped behind the passenger seat. When parked up I move the bike behind the seat to the passenger footwell (Warwick Duo). It's the only van I've had so can offer no comparisons.

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[MillieMoocher]

Good call The Lord Squid re the Silver Screens. We would also take our Brommies and your solution for Warwick is helpful

 

[uzsnowdrop]

We have a peugeot boxer with single glazing, extra limousine tint on windows. We dont have front folding screens so use a good quality silver screen on front windscreen, which really works well to prevent condensation. We always leave a bit of ventilation and we ‘adjusted( butchered) an old silver screen to use on back windows, behind vanshore curtains . The level of security is higher than the motorhome plastic windows which is a bonus and we upsized from a vw camper so we think we have loads of space! Never used the Karcher thing but lots on here swear by them . Hope this helps, we have had two motorhomes over 7 m, and think the PVC ‘swishbang’ is perfect for how we use it, accepting everyone lives with their mohos differently.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

I find that opening the front skylight to first setting helps with condensation, but I also use a Kärcher mini vac. On rare occasions I'm on a site Silver Screens stops windscreen condensation completely. For bikes I have a couple of Bromptons, one goes between the seats, the other strapped behind the passenger seat. When parked up I move the bike behind the seat to the passenger footwell (Warwick Duo). It's the only van I've had so can offer no comparisons.

The silver screens work so well, hot or cold weather!

 

[GeoffnDee]

We brought an Autocruise Rhythm (now Swift Select) because it had opening double glazed windows( including the rear doors) and find this works well for us. They also have a vent setting which is useful at night.

 

[mitzimad]

any single glazed window will allow heat to escape and form condense in the right conditions

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[Minxy]

Single glazed windows are in no way a true replacement for double glazed ones so you will always get condensation on them when the temperature drops no matter what you do. If you're only going to use it in late spring/summer/early autumn then it shouldn't be an issue except on the odd cold night but otherwise you'll find it a pain.

Another thing to consider is that the opening windows are very limited on these too, nothing like being able to open up a 'proper' MH window and I think some people have commented about them getting hot at time as they're not able to let enough air through.

They look very nice admittedly but to me they are 'form over function'.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

It will all be about how you use your van, both types have pros and cons, theres always a workaround and you’ll find the Autosleeper forum helpful on this... go for it and lets get out there!

 

[Compactliner]

Single glazed windows are in no way a true replacement for double glazed ones so you will always get condensation on them when the temperature drops no matter what you do. If you're only going to use it in late spring/summer/early autumn then it shouldn't be an issue except on the odd cold night but otherwise you'll find it a pain.

Another thing to consider is that the opening windows are very limited on these too, nothing like being able to open up a 'proper' MH window and I think some people have commented about them getting hot at time as they're not able to let enough air through.

They look very nice admittedly but to me they are 'form over function'.

I was also going to mention the small sixe of the windows but Mel beat me to it...
have a read of the AutoSleepers OwnersForum (ASOF) before you buy....ive been a (much abused) member for a while (im interested in the non AS things...) and there are a number of issues that come up regularly..
heating....Combis mounted at rear, miles from cooler cab, narrow bore pipe used to go behind cabinets...result, cold front half of van.
Solar systems fitted by Sargent totally inadequate, even for keeping batteries charged in winter on the drive. members swapping out by bypassing Sargent PSU.
Plumbing problems include failure to prime system after draining due to poor tank fitted pump, pump often fitted at an angle (persistent airlocks) and not down far enough in the tank, van rund out of water when tank still half full....members swap out for a Shurflo/Flojet inline version.
poor storage, lack of any outside storage for wet/bulky gear...underbeds full of Truma/Sargent kit and batteries.
Vans look nice (selling point) but Marquis cust service extremely poor, design of some areas lacking, cheap fittings once cover peeled back.....
i dont want to rain on your parade, but i agree.....form over function...certainly not for me after reading that forum for a while.
yes, rear lounges are nice (if you like them, not us) but if i had to, id be looking at the Dreamer Living Van...its a real motorhome.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

There will be lots on here that like their autosleepers for sure, we looked at one before we bought a nicely converted van instead.
Stopping points for us with the Auto sleeper were the Whale priming system( the forum has the loooongessst thread on this) and the drivers seat was baulked by the oven so sitting position was odd. Funnily enough the one we looked at in Marquis was bought and returned by the purchasers... dont know why.
(I ought to say that we had two previous motorhomes from Marquis Eastbourne and they gave us good service. )The interior did look plush though, plusher than the one we bought , but we do have a hairy German shepherd ( dog , not the other kind) so ours will do!

 

[uzsnowdrop]

The interior did look plush though, plusher than the one we bought , but we do have a hairy German shepherd ( dog , not the other kind) so ours will do!

Not this sort....

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[Compactliner]

again, when looking at the Kingham, you really should look at the Dreamer french bed equivalent, the D62.
i looked at it (the Kingham) at the NEC when it first came out but was soooooo disappointed at the poor boot space....just wouldnt be any good for carrying just about anything.
just a look at these pics shows how much more thought has gone into making the rear storage work properly in the Dreamer, whereas the Kingham boot is full of Truma and has no external access.
im just so impressed with how companies like Dreamer (Rapido) have looked at improving on the basics of traditional layouts, like design, rather than just adding extra gadgets to justify this years price rise.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

again, when looking at the Kingham, you really should look at the Dreamer french bed equivalent, the D62.
i looked at it (the Kingham) at the NEC when it first came out but was soooooo disappointed at the poor boot space....just wouldnt be any good for carrying just about anything.
just a look at these pics shows how much more thought has gone into making the rear storage work properly in the Dreamer, whereas the Kingham boot is full of Truma and has no external access.
im just so impressed with how companies like Dreamer (Rapido) have looked at improving on the basics of traditional layouts, like design, rather than just adding extra gadgets to justify this years price rise.

Looks nice, it’s great to see some new designs and different thinking, accepting that van space is always limited. Interesting challenges ahead with electric vehicles, hopefully it will help manufacturers innovate even more.
I can’t stop myself looking at the PVC s with a pop top... they seem so roomy.

 

[MillieMoocher]

Some real food for thought here.

looked at the Dreamer but we don’t want a front dinette type, having had that layout in our first MH. We tend to like to sit with our feet up, lounging out and found that the front dinette set up seemed like you spent all day sat at a table.

maybe back to the drawing board, depends on what we think of the layout and storage opportunities when we go viewing next week.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

Have fun choosing!
we love having the back doors open on a pitch with a view and agree with you on the dinette set up, sometimes those low backed front lounges can be uncomfortable too.
We had a benimar to start with and the front table was like a ‘Taskmaster’ challenge and constantly in the way ,
Now we tend to use our bedroll as backrests on the long rear seats which is nice and comfy but induces sleep/ dozing !

 

[CazPaul]

Some real food for thought here.

looked at the Dreamer but we don’t want a front dinette type, having had that layout in our first MH. We tend to like to sit with our feet up, lounging out and found that the front dinette set up seemed like you spent all day sat at a table.

maybe back to the drawing board, depends on what we think of the layout and storage opportunities when we go viewing next week.

There’s plenty of other rear lounge layouts to choose from if you don’t want the rubbish single glazing though.

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[Compactliner]

at first glance, a half dinette might seem a bit different to a typical rear lounge van...however, spin the cab seats (these are often far more comfortable/supportive than a low backed effort that has to double as a bed) and put your feet on the side seat...its what we do...my bad back wont allow me to sit on typical AS low side seat...
the Living Van i mentioned has a proper rear lounge and the D62 has that lovely rear bed which can easily be used as a day bed...OH uses our rear bed for reading...
then again, we dont spend hours inside the van...we tend to tour where its warm (Spain in winter, France late summer, UK late spring and early summer) so spend time outside walking, cycling, dining out.
the van is the flop out point after a 'hard day' and the bed is the most important element, no cushions or sleeping bags (making up beds, storing pillows etc) so a Warwick wouldnt work for us....but this isnt about us, its about what you need/want...
my original point was to highlight that there are some pretty sophisticated vans out there now and its certainly having a look before spending £60+k.
dont rush, dont be rushed...do a bit more research, check the ASOF....they are certainly a loyal bunch (as you might expect) that dont like (even perceived) brand criticism, yet there are several repeating themes highlighting poor design, quality or execution which just shouldnt be expected at this level....
I wish you well in your search....it may well be an AS but at least youll be looking with eyes a bit wider open.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

There’s plenty of other rear lounge layouts to choose from if you don’t want the rubbish single glazing though.

Ow, we like ours actually. Having a bad day?

 

[SpeedyDux]

Looks nice, it’s great to see some new designs and different thinking, accepting that van space is always limited. Interesting challenges ahead with electric vehicles, hopefully it will help manufacturers innovate even more.
I can’t stop myself looking at the PVC s with a pop top... they seem so roomy.

A bit OT, but: having had a pop top for 10 years there are pluses and minuses. The plus is great ventilation and comfort in hot weather. The biggest minus is too much noise disturbance from other campers. Often you will want to keep it shut all night. They are also quite heavy.

 

[CazPaul]

Ow, we like ours actually. Having a bad day?

Not at all I was just going on some of the comments on here about the windows, I never said the van was rubbish just the windows appear so according to the comments.
All vans gave good and bad points.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

Not at all I was just going on some of the comments on here about the windows, I never said the van was rubbish just the windows appear so according to the comments.
All vans gave good and bad points.

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[The Lord Squid]

There’s plenty of other rear lounge layouts to choose from if you don’t want the rubbish single glazing though.

Having used one for 4 years in all seasons I wouldn't describe the glazing as rubbish and would buy the same van again.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

We saw a large group of AS owners at a site, they were having a great time!

 

[Otter Spotter]

Single glazed windows are in no way a true replacement for double glazed ones so you will always get condensation on them when the temperature drops no matter what you do. If you're only going to use it in late spring/summer/early autumn then it shouldn't be an issue except on the odd cold night but otherwise you'll find it a pain.

Another thing to consider is that the opening windows are very limited on these too, nothing like being able to open up a 'proper' MH window and I think some people have commented about them getting hot at time as they're not able to let enough air through.

They look very nice admittedly but to me they are 'form over function'.

lack of opening windows in a PVC usually isn’t an issue as long as you have roof lights, Maxxfan best, because most have a sliding window in the side door and you can have the back doors open so if it’s very warm you can have through ventilation and at night with the side window and roof lights open gives you plenty of fresh air.
In winter, the maxxfan still has a vent opening and yes the single windows will get covered in condensation but if you use insulating window pads they cut down the condensation and keep you warm.
i would say the OP needs to consider That no van will be perfect, all are compromised so get the layout you want and alter and add to to suit. I am sure that what you do anyway

 

[MillieMoocher]

i would say the OP needs to consider That no van will be perfect, all are compromised so get the layout you want and alter and add to to suit. I am sure that what you do anyway

this is spot on. There were compromises on our previous 2 A class MHs, no van is “perfect”

the attraction on the Autosleepers is the layout; problems from poor workmanship (pump locations, narrow heater pipes etc) can all be sorted, whereas the layout - if wrong- is more fundamental.

my question was really based around the windows as it seems few (if any) other manufacturers use this system - so why was that? Was it because it wasn’t any good? And what problems did it bring?

conclusion re the Windows is they will get condensation, but there are things you can do about that to mitigate the situation. Our last 2 Hymers also suffered from condensation in the cab area, if we didn’t use the Silver Screens. So although it’s a bit annoying, the single glazing isn’t a show stopper.

However we look at things, it’s a world away from my parents bay front VW pop tops I camped in as a kid .

 

[wolfie2]

MillieMoocher Have you thought of insulated screens for the side windows? I'm sure Silverscreens or Taylors could make some for you with suckers...internal or external....just a thought

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