Relatively mild prang against a low post has meant catastrophe for my 2004 Hymer B584... (2 Viewers)

[YukonJac]

Hello all,
Without going into too much detail, I had my first real mishap in over 40 years of driving. I hit a low post in a supermarket parking lot in France (I live in France) resulting in moderate damage to the front end. Long story short, repair shop has had my van for 10 weeks now, finally adjusters agreed to the repairs BUT at that point, the shop insisted on putting it onto a laser frame-straightener. That is when they discovered front-end rust bad enough for them to refuse to repair at all.
SO - insurers will not pay any more than the original repairs - around €11000. The shop says the van is not worth repairing (market value before discovery of rust around €25000).
What I would like to know now, is how to proceed, and if anyone has experience of selling an accident-damaged motorhome for parts, and what kind of money to expect. I know it may be a bit different in France, but probably not much as the market has been strong here too for the last few years.
Any qualified advice out there for me? She is a beauty and I'm sad to lose her. Overwhelmed about the result and what to do next.

 

[Dutch 68]

Hello all,
Without going into too much detail, I had my first real mishap in over 40 years of driving. I hit a low post in a supermarket parking lot in France (I live in France) resulting in moderate damage to the front end. Long story short, repair shop has had my van for 10 weeks now, finally adjusters agreed to the repairs BUT at that point, the shop insisted on putting it onto a laser frame-straightener. That is when they discovered front-end rust bad enough for them to refuse to repair at all.
SO - insurers will not pay any more than the original repairs - around €11000. The shop says the van is not worth repairing (market value before discovery of rust around €25000).
What I would like to know now, is how to proceed, and if anyone has experience of selling an accident-damaged motorhome for parts, and what kind of money to expect. I know it may be a bit different in France, but probably not much as the market has been strong here too for the last few years.
Any qualified advice out there for me? She is a beauty and I'm sad to lose her. Overwhelmed about the result and what to do next.



View attachment 855521

Everything is repairable and rust is not the end of your motorhome, what you need to find is a old fashioned small back street place who does mainly old vehicles and do a lot of welding, for a nice cash in hand job it would cost you less then a quarter from your current garage quote , and this could include your accident damage, lots of people even do this kind of jobs after hours in their own workshops after they finish the day job

 

[suavecarve]

There might be some campsites who might be interested in it as a static

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

If they have agreed that the damage is worth €11000, tell them you will take the money. Then use it to get someone else (not necessarily insurance approved) to repair the rust and damage.
Then get it professionally inspected (U.K. would be an IVA test- like a full on Ministry test) so there is no cloud over its safety.

 

[Roger S]

Exactly, totally agree with Dutch68, I bet you can get it repaired for a lot less than 11k too so you could be quids in if you find the write repairer.

 

[YukonJac]

Everything is repairable and rust is not the end of your motorhome, what you need to find is a old fashioned small back street place who does mainly old vehicles and do a lot of welding, for a nice cash in hand job it would cost you less then a quarter from your current garage quote , and this could include your accident damage, lots of people even do this kind of jobs after hours in their own workshops after they finish the day job

Ah well, already most of that original quote is for the difficult to source body parts, radiator, condenser etc, of an older quality van. Yes, I take your point, but it is beyond my scope to find such a person here in France. In any case, I believe that in order to re-insure and MOT it, it will need proper repair receipts and various tests as it will be declared unsafe to drive. France is all about procedures and paperwork, and I'm not up to paying more out of pocket anyway - also, it is undriveable so add the cost of transporting it somewhere. All out of control prices here. BUT, you may have prompted me to look into it further, so thanks!

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[L' Hobo]

Ah well, already most of that original quote is for the difficult to source body parts, radiator, condenser etc, of an older quality van. Yes, I take your point, but it is beyond my scope to find such a person here in France. In any case, I believe that in order to re-insure and MOT it, it will need proper repair receipts and various tests as it will be declared unsafe to drive. France is all about procedures and paperwork, and I'm not up to paying more out of pocket anyway. You have prompted me to look into it more though, so thanks!

If the insurance repairers are not prepared to repair it, it must be, to the insurers, classed as a 'write off'.
Is it possible to claim the write off value, then buy the vehicle back and sell it on as parts or get it repaired?

 

[YukonJac]

If the insurance repairers are not prepared to repair it, it must be, to the insurers, classed as a 'write off'.
Is it possible to claim the write off value, then buy the vehicle back and sell it on as parts or get it repaired?

I was hoping that they would write it off, but the argument from the insurer is that the rust was pre-existing therefor they are not responsible for repairing it. At this point, I'm a bit at the end of my rope with it all - it's been a circus between the repair shop (not an approved shop of the insurer - there are none locally) and the insurer. Left hand and right hand completely at odds. All that said, I just got a text from the shop that the adjuster now wants a new quote including looking at the rust repairs. Head of shop tells me not to get too excited as it will likely mean I will have to contribute to the repairs, and it will be more than I can afford. I just want them to write it off now, so fingers crossed that will be the eventual decision.

 

[TheBig1]

ALL the metalwork behind the bumper is easily repaired or replaced, even the radiator. I used to make good money buying such damaged vans, repairing and selling. The garage doesn't want the job of fixing it

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[YukonJac]

ALL the metalwork behind the bumper is easily repaired or replaced, even the radiator. I used to make good money buying such damaged vans, repairing and selling. The garage doesn't want the job of fixing it

I think you have hit the nail on the head. They do a lot of motorhome mechanical repairs, but the bodywork may be too much for them. I know they despise working on A-class. The insurance company, a big, well-known one here has been total pants. My big problem is that my French is pretty good, but not great, and I happen to be female - I reckon they just want to get rid of me. Trouble is now that I'm completely worn down by it all and just want it over. It's helping to talk about it here though!

 

[TheBig1]

Can you share some photos of the damage?

 

[YukonJac]

Can you share some photos of the damage?

Only have a few from right after accident. Body shop showed me photos of the rust which is only nasty on the front right quadrant.

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[TheBig1]

The plastic bumper can be welded back together or fibreglassed. The bent metal bar behind is the bumper support bar £65

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the support bars left and right are under £25 each

The lower radiator support is £75 and these regularly rust out

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New radiator is £63

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Just to give you an idea

 

[Figaro]

Those photos show damage to the front bumper only. Even that bent metal bar in front of the radiator is part of the bumper.
It may be difficult to source a bumper and the garage probably can't be bothered to trying.
Can you show photos of the rust ? I think that will be repairable too ?

 

[YukonJac]

Brilliant The Big1- thanks very much for your time and expertise.
Bonkers.
I knew the radiator and aircon condenser would be inexpensive, and that the plastic bumper would likely be weldable. The quarter panel needs fiberglass repair, bunch of trim fell off, lamps need replacing and all needs repainting, but yeah - I was under no illusion that it wasn't a supreme rip-off. There is some quite serious buckling of a couple of panels underneath too. Shop says the chassis is bent - not a lot, but enough, and that weld repairs to the problematic rust are expensive, and that the rust will likely come back with a vengeance anyway.
If I were in the UK, I'd have no trouble shopping around for reasonable and good repairer. I regret not importing her when I had the chance!

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[YukonJac]

Those photos show damage to the front bumper only. Even that bent metal bar in front of the radiator is part of the bumper.
It may be difficult to source a bumper and the garage probably can't be bothered to trying.
Can you show photos of the rust ? I think that will be repairable too ?

I think they were intending to plastic-weld the bumper. No photos of the rust handy - must get the shop to forward them to me, then will post.
To be fair, the damage is worse than it looks in these photos. Once it was dismantled, there was some surprising buckling going on.

 

[Figaro]

There aren't really that many panels underneath to buckle unless you have an undertray but doubt it, maybe the wheel arches ?
There's the front crossmember, prone to rust and easily replaced, behing that is the sump and then the front sub frame, I doubt you have buckled that.
I think most parts can be sourced or repaired with a bit of effort but sadly too much for your garage
Good luck , I hope you can get it back on the road

 

[L' Hobo]

I was hoping that they would write it off, but the argument from the insurer is that the rust was pre-existing therefor they are not responsible for repairing it. At this point, I'm a bit at the end of my rope with it all - it's been a circus between the repair shop (not an approved shop of the insurer - there are none locally) and the insurer. Left hand and right hand completely at odds. All that said, I just got a text from the shop that the adjuster now wants a new quote including looking at the rust repairs. Head of shop tells me not to get too excited as it will likely mean I will have to contribute to the repairs, and it will be more than I can afford. I just want them to write it off now, so fingers crossed that will be the eventual decision.

I think that I, would be inclined to argue about their attitude that, 'as the rust was pre-existing, they are not responsible' because, it's a bit like saying, as there was water ingress around the skylight, they are not were not responsible for repairing the body if that got damaged.

The rust could not have been so drastic, or it wouldn't have past it last MOT?

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[YukonJac]

There aren't really that many panels underneath to buckle unless you have an undertray but doubt it, maybe the wheel arches ?
There's the front crossmember, prone to rust and easily replaced, behing that is the sump and then the front sub frame, I doubt you have buckled that.
I think most parts can be sourced or repaired with a bit of effort but sadly too much for your garage

Spot-on I think Figaro. I think my adjuster is onto that fact. What happens now, I'm not too sure, but I see the insurer has just deposited an underpaid amount (9000 of the agreed 11000 - my deductible is 300) of the original claim into my account, and yet said they were revisiting the original quote! Clowns!!
It's truly doing me nut in.

 

[TheBig1]

Under the front, there are two chassis legs that everything bolts to, a minor bump like that could not bend the legs. They are talking utter crap unless there was pre-existing damage. Everything you mentioned damaged just bolts on. An easy day's work to replace all that. The plastic bumper, a day to weld, strengthen and prep then reinstall. another half day to paint. A bit of surface rust is to be expected on an older van. All very easy to fix

For example a friend got her van in for MOT garage failed and quotes £400 to £500 to fix. I found a place 150metres away who took a look. Not an MOT fail but repaired it properly for £100. I mentioned the other garage and he laughed and said just as well we didn't as they are crap at welding and get it done by him anyway

 

[Lenny HB]

Sounds very much the garage didn't want the job and quoted a stupid price as the TheBig1 dshse most of it easily repairable at a fraction of that quote.
You really need to get someone else to look at it an hopefully give a sensible quote.

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[Pilote87]

I was hoping that they would write it off, but the argument from the insurer is that the rust was pre-existing therefor they are not responsible for repairing it. At this point, I'm a bit at the end of my rope with it all - it's been a circus between the repair shop (not an approved shop of the insurer - there are none locally) and the insurer. Left hand and right hand completely at odds. All that said, I just got a text from the shop that the adjuster now wants a new quote including looking at the rust repairs. Head of shop tells me not to get too excited as it will likely mean I will have to contribute to the repairs, and it will be more than I can afford. I just want them to write it off now, so fingers crossed that will be the eventual decision.

It is a shame that you live so far from me as I can recommend a place near Limoges. I had some damage to my camping car and the "expert" (insurance company assessor) was suggesting it needed a new skin on the right hand side, so a possible wrrite-off. The boss of the workshop said he could effect the repair, to the front right corner including the lower fridge vent, caused when I tried to squeeze through a narrow bridge, at a lower cost. Fortunately, the vehicle was still usable and we even made a couple of UK trips before he could get it into his workshop programme. He is still extremely busy two years later.

John

 

[YukonJac]

I think that I, would be inclined to argue about their attitude that, 'as the rust was pre-existing, they are not responsible' because, it's a bit like saying, as there was water ingress around the skylight, they are not were not responsible for repairing the body if that got damaged.

The rust could not have been so drastic, or it wouldn't have past it last MOT?

the 'controle technique' here is every two years, and mine passed last April. There was mention of rust in that quadrant, but I was told it wasn't severe. I did spend this summer in the Highlands and I suppose it could have really taken hold, but who knows. I am arguing my case exactly as you say with the adjuster and I think they are looking again. Bottom line - I've got the totally wrong repairer! The pressure was on though - I was far from my local area when I had the accident and the insurer had no suggestions. The breakdown 'kid' pressured me to take it where it is now - three months later. Arrrgh!

 

[YukonJac]

It is a shame that you live so far from me as I can recommend a place near Limoges. I had some damage to my camping car and the "expert" (insurance company assessor) was suggesting it needed a new skin on the right hand side, so a possible wrrite-off. The boss of the workshop said he could effect the repair, to the front right corner including the lower fridge vent, caused when I tried to squeeze through a narrow bridge, at a lower cost. Fortunately, the vehicle was still usable and we even made a couple of UK trips before he could get it into his workshop programme. He is still extremely busy two years later.

John

Oh - great to have a fellow motorhoming expat here with some experience of this! Yes, big shame we're not in the same neck of the woods. At the beginning, this was meant to be a simple two week job, but it is now a circus. I am very ready to let it go but won't allow myself to be totally scammed and fobbed off.
Very glad to hear you've still got your rolling home!

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[TheBig1]

If it was me, I would have a friend drive me to where the van is. Take some strips of wood, a saw, a drill, screws and duct tape. Line the broken bumper up with batten behind the snapped area, drill and put screws through the plastic into the batten behind. Cover cracks with tape. Top radiator up with water and drive it home, keeping an eye on the temperature. Have your friend follow you home. Once home you have options as to what you do next

 

[YukonJac]

Under the front, there are two chassis legs that everything bolts to, a minor bump like that could not bend the legs. They are talking utter crap unless there was pre-existing damage. Everything you mentioned damaged just bolts on. An easy day's work to replace all that. The plastic bumper, a day to weld, strengthen and prep then reinstall. another half day to paint. A bit of surface rust is to be expected on an older van. All very easy to fix

For example a friend got her van in for MOT garage failed and quotes £400 to £500 to fix. I found a place 150metres away who took a look. Not an MOT fail but repaired it properly for £100. I mentioned the other garage and he laughed and said just as well we didn't as they are crap at welding and get it done by him anyway.

I need you here! Or someone just like you who knows their way around this system and culture. It's just pants to get anything done in a straightforward way here. A lot is fab, but anything involving multiple companies and officials is off the scale.

 

[YukonJac]

If it was me, I would have a friend drive me to where the van is. Take some strips of wood, a saw, a drill, screws and duct tape. Line the broken bumper up with batten behind the snapped area, drill and put screws through the plastic into the batten behind. Cover cracks with tape. Top radiator up with water and drive it home, keeping an eye on the temperature. Have your friend follow you home. Once home you have options as to what you do next

I think that makes a lot of sense. I could even get a local storage provider so I wouldn't have to take it far. I was told I shouldn't drive it with the bent radiator (nothing is leaking at present) as the engine vibrations would rupture it, though, and it does make a hell of a rumbling noise and vibrates when running, but I may just risk it if I am forced! Good call.

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[Badknee]

I would take the money offered to write it off then buy it back for the scrap value and as others have said get it home/storage, take loads of pictures then find a body shop to have a look see.

 

[L' Hobo]

If it was me, I would have a friend drive me to where the van is. Take some strips of wood, a saw, a drill, screws and duct tape. Line the broken bumper up with batten behind the snapped area, drill and put screws through the plastic into the batten behind. Cover cracks with tape. Top radiator up with water and drive it home, keeping an eye on the temperature. Have your friend follow you home. Once home you have options as to what you do next

Instead of the screws, I would be inclined to take plenty of wide headed rivets, especially as you already have the drill!

 

[CazPaul]

I would take the money offered to write it off then buy it back for the scrap value and as others have said get it home/storage, take loads of pictures then find a body shop to have a look see.

Would that then affect the future resale value if the OP ever wanted to get rid/change vans etc
What would the Motorhome be listed on the paperwork as?

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