Reasons for reclassification rejection

[fetch]

Hi all,

Has anyone applied to DVLA to reclassify their vehicle as a motor home and been rejected? If so, what reasons were you given? I've read loads saying that the rejection rates are sky high and sometimes the logic behind the rejection doesn't stack up to the reclassification requirements. Read an example where someone said they were actually told they met all the requirements but it still looked like a panel van...

Please let me know what reasons you were given!

Thanks in advance

 

[34127]

This is discussed quite often and there seems to be no logic behind it. The DVLA say that the V5 classification describes what the van looks like in traffic but it seems it is down to individual opinion of the person making the decision. I have seen photos of vans that have been reclassified as 'Van with Windows' and others as Motor Caravan and there seems little difference between them.
If a van is reclassified as a Van with Windows I would be asking the DVLA under the freedom of information act as to why it was classified that way and what would it take to get the classification changed to Motor Caravan. Don't forget that the DVLA also state that the whilst the V5 classification is only a description of what the vehicle looks like it can be still be used as a Motor Caravan (assuming the internal changes are as per DVLA guidelines).

"The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

 

[chaser]

It all started by people trying to be clever and getting things passed by photographing the inside of other vans and saying it was theirs then coming on sites like this and bragging about how clever they had been, as if DVLA don't see these things, so then it was all suddenly tightened up for everyone.
No going back now I'm afraid

 

[34127]

I think too many are getting hung up on the need to get Motor Caravan on the V5 but it is not necessary if you have converted to DVLA guidelines and it gets classified as van with windows.

 

[Jamesh]

How does it affect insurance - motorhome Vs van with windows?

Cheers James

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[34127]

How does it affect insurance - motorhome Vs van with windows?

Cheers James

From DVLA guidelines
"The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

 

[fetch]

Thanks all - if anyone has a first-hand rejection experience, I'm still keen to hear the specific reasons you were given for your individual application

 

[Otter Spotter]

My van was reclassified ‘van with windows’ and my understanding is that speed limits are not as fast as a motorhome.otherwise nothing different.

 

[34127]

My van was reclassified ‘van with windows’ and my understanding is that speed limits are not as fast as a motorhome.otherwise nothing different.

Your speed limits are the same as if it had been classified as a Motor Caravan as long as you are using the van as a Motor Caravan and not for carrying goods.

As quoted earlier (from DVLA)
"The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

 

[Otter Spotter]

Your speed limits are the same as if it had been classified as a Motor Caravan as long as you are using the van as a Motor Caravan and not for carrying goods.

As quoted earlier (from DVLA)
"The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

That’s actually great news, not that I speed everywhere.

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[34127]

just for further clarification, this is an extract from an email sent by the DVLA

Turning to the issue of speed limits for your vehicle; as I explained in my email to you of 21 August 2019, the national speed limits for different categories of road vehicle depend on how the vehicle is configured for use on the road. The legislation applicable is the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Schedule 6 (link below), which lists vehicle types which are restricted to speeds below the national speed limits.

The Department for Transport has produced guidance on the various speed limits on the gov.uk website (link below), which includes advice on motor caravans:

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

As you will see, a motor caravan that exceeds 3.05 tonnes unladen weight is restricted to lower speeds than the national limits i.e. 70 mph on motorways; 60 mph on dual carriageways; 50 mph on single-carriageways, unless locally marked. If you draw a trailer (or trailers) of any type then lower limits apply.

If your motor caravan does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limit as a car.

I assume that your vehicle has been converted to meet the definition of a motor caravan (useful link given below); so as such would need to comply with the speed limit for this type of vehicle (i.e. motor caravan) dependent on its weight; regardless of what information is on the V5C form.

 

[Ranger]

Your speed limits are the same as if it had been classified as a Motor Caravan as long as you are using the van as a Motor Caravan and not for carrying goods.

As quoted earlier (from DVLA)
"The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

But how does the speed camera know what it is or being used for?

 

[Emmit]

Borderland quoted, quite correctly.
""The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

HOWEVER, I have spoken to peeps with a Panel Van Motorhome who were incorrectly 'flashed' on a Dual Carriageway for exceeding the, (for a goods vehicle) limit of 60mph when the actual speed limit for a motor caravan PVC would be 70mph.

Thing is, the silly bu&&er not only accepted the NIP. he went on the Speed awareness course.

 

[Jamesh]

Borderland quoted, quite correctly.
""The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

HOWEVER, I have spoken to peeps with a Panel Van Motorhome who were incorrectly 'flashed' on a Dual Carriageway for exceeding the, (for a goods vehicle) limit of 60mph when the actual speed limit for a motor caravan PVC would be 70mph.

Thing is, the silly bu&&er not only accepted the NIP. he went on the Speed awareness course.

Exactly

I regularly travel from Yorkshire to Dorset using the a43 and a34 and it does make the journey longer...

Cheers James

 

[nicholsong]

This may be of interest to some of you or to those following.

I have had to do some research recently concerning re-registration of my MH(not PVC) in Poland, and it turned up what is a new EU Regulation which was passed in May 2018, but took effect on 1st Sept 2020.

It concerns categorisation of vehicles and note it is an EU Regulation, which means it takes effect directly as law in all 26(27 incl UK under Transition)) EU States.

It is here at

Regulation (EU) 2018/858 [Broken Link Removed]

Entry into force 1st Sept 2020 [see Article 91 p.151/63]

Vehicle categories are set out at

Article 4 p.151/14

1 (a) Category M1

2 .......set out in Annex 1


Annex 1 (p.151/67)

Part A

2.2. Special Purpose Vehicles

2.2.1 ...........in Point 5


5. Special Purpose Vehicles (p. 151/72)

5.1

Motor Caravans. .............[RH column] lists features.


I believe that this is now the definitive law which defines the sub-category 'Motor Caravans' of Category M1 [Passenger vehicles with up to 9 seats incl. driver]

In my opinion it now makes surplus all other requirements of DVLA to define a Motor Caravan.

I suggest anyone wanting to apply for a van to be categorised as a Motor Caravan should quote the above to DVLA.

I hope this helps people.

Geoff

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[34127]

This may be of interest to some of you or to those following.

I have had to do some research recently concerning re-registration of my MH(not PVC) in Poland, and it turned up what is a new EU Regulation which was passed in May 2018, but took effect on 1st Sept 2020.

It concerns categorisation of vehicles and note it is an EU Regulation, which means it takes effect directly as law in all 26(27 incl UK under Transition)) EU States.

Does that apply to existing vehicles or only to new type vehicle approvals

 

[34127]

Borderland quoted, quite correctly.
""The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

HOWEVER, I have spoken to peeps with a Panel Van Motorhome who were incorrectly 'flashed' on a Dual Carriageway for exceeding the, (for a goods vehicle) limit of 60mph when the actual speed limit for a motor caravan PVC would be 70mph.

Thing is, the silly bu&&er not only accepted the NIP. he went on the Speed awareness course.

How did they react when they realised they could have successfully appealed.

 

[Emmit]

The phrase, "Spitting feathers" springs to mind.

I did suggest that they write to the Authorities in order that they get the circumstances reviewed and a confirmatory letter obtained as, from memory, the driver had informed his Insurance Co. and a note had been made which could have had a negative effect on Insurance costs going forward.

 

[nicholsong]

Does that apply to existing vehicles or only to new type vehicle approvals

Well it does include individual type approval.

I assumed a van conversion had to go through that process.

Geoff

 

[34127]

But how does the speed camera know what it is or being used for?

It doesn't just as it doesn't know the maximum unladen weight.

The DVLA tightened up the guidelines for the following reasons but it seems they have created a bigger problem for the authorities in applying speed limits.

DVLA is required to record vehicle details for road safety and law enforcement. The body type information held on the vehicle record must describe what a vehicle looks like in traffic. This description, as well as other distinguishing features, allows the police and other enforcement agencies to easily identify vehicles.

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[34127]

Well it does include individual type approval.

I assumed a van conversion had to go through that process.

Geoff

As it is a change of use to an existing vehicle that already has type approval then the current method of applying to the DVLA seems to apply.

 

[Mr Colpot]

Another thing to bear in mind is the M1 vehicle category as this was being used to charge at Dartford Crossing. We had our Vantage Cub reclassified (went through ok with pics to DVLA) but the category didn't change - just the body type. I queried this with the DVLA as Dartford Crossing were charging as a Goods Van and DVLA said they don't change the Vehicle Category. (This may have changed since then (2016))

 

[gus-lopez]

But how does the speed camera know what it is or being used for?

It doesn't .they send you a ticket ,you ring them & tell them .

Borderland quoted, quite correctly.
""The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification. "

HOWEVER, I have spoken to peeps with a Panel Van Motorhome who were incorrectly 'flashed' on a Dual Carriageway for exceeding the, (for a goods vehicle) limit of 60mph when the actual speed limit for a motor caravan PVC would be 70mph.

Thing is, the silly bu&&er not only accepted the NIP. he went on the Speed awareness course.

There was a thread the other day ,same sort of thing. Owner rang up & they apologised & binned it

Another thing to bear in mind is the M1 vehicle category as this was being used to charge at Dartford Crossing. We had our Vantage Cub reclassified (went through ok with pics to DVLA) but the category didn't change - just the body type. I queried this with the DVLA as Dartford Crossing were charging as a Goods Van and DVLA said they don't change the Vehicle Category. (This may have changed since then (2016))

When I added my Transit last year I put it down as camper & it goes in B , I believe? Even though mine still looks like a panel van with no windows.

 

[nicholsong]

As it is a change of use to an existing vehicle that already has type approval then the current method of applying to the DVLA seems to apply.

The legislation I quoted is indeed related to type approval but it would be crazy if DVLA are approving vehicles on one basis for type approval on new vehicles but a different basis for used vehicles.

In any case I would have thought the legislation quoted above is at least persuasive as to the minimum requirements for a Motor Caravan, as I know of no other legislation, not DVLA internally generated ones, e.g. decals.

Geoff

 

[34127]

The legislation I quoted is indeed related to type approval but it would be crazy if DVLA are approving vehicles on one basis for type approval on new vehicles but a different basis for used vehicles.

In any case I would have thought the legislation quoted above is at least persuasive as to the minimum requirements for a Motor Caravan, as I know of no other legislation, not DVLA internally generated ones, e.g. decals.

Geoff

I have to say that I don't know much about type approval and appreciate any informative advice. What does seem odd is that the DVLA can change rules about reclassification at their own discretion and without reference to any other legal authority.

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[Ranger]

My understanding re type approval from when we had ours done is for instance if a van is converted before it is registered it needs an sva test for type approval but if already registered it does not. That is why a lot of the smaller manufacturers pre register vehicles before build/conversion.

 

[nicholsong]

I have to say that I don't know much about type approval and appreciate any informative advice. What does seem odd is that the DVLA can change rules about reclassification at their own discretion and without reference to any other legal authority.

Well the answer to that, as with any organisation, is to ask for the legal authority on which they base their rules.

Geoff

 

[TonyEmm]

The legislation I quoted is indeed related to type approval but it would be crazy if DVLA are approving vehicles on one basis for type approval on new vehicles but a different basis for used vehicles.

In any case I would have thought the legislation quoted above is at least persuasive as to the minimum requirements for a Motor Caravan, as I know of no other legislation, not DVLA internally generated ones, e.g. decals.

Geoff

This whole process seems a nightmare! I know they also have a classification of ‘Living Van’. It might look exactly the same as a Motorhome but if you are taking goods to a car boot for instance, that makes you a ‘Living Van’ and depending on size, subject to a different MoT classification..... it’s bizarre to say the least.

On speed limits, I have a 3.5t Rapido (M1 class vehicle) and I can do 60mph on the single carriageway A17 near home. If I take my smaller Vivaro van (N1 class vehicle) I’m restricted to 50mph!

 

[bigalw35]

Thanks all - if anyone has a first-hand rejection experience, I'm still keen to hear the specific reasons you were given for your individual application

I telephoned DVLA to change my motorhome 2001 Mercedes Hymer B680 (A CLASS) from a PRIVATE HGV to a motor home, which it obviously is, (mainly for the emission control, legal entry to various towns) and was told that in my log book there are no emission values stated, and they are correct ther are none, he did give me a few phone numbers to ring for the addition of a cat converter. The B680 is a 4500Kg moho, I did telephone a few of the installers and was told that to install a cat for the 2.1 diesel engine would be in the region of £7500.00, I can get it done in Germany for about £150.00 with a German certificate, but would that certificate be acceptable in the UK ??

 

[Suvvi]

Having first hand experience, the rejection letter it is very vague as you would expect.

My van was reclassified as a Van with Windows however Adrian Flux took all the details and where satisfied that it is a Motor Caravan and insured it as that without issue. There was in fact so little hassle that when the the cover note came through saying motorcaravan, I queried it. They confirmed that from the description, they are satisfied that it is the intended purpose and will insure accordingly regarding what the registration document says.

After doing a fair bit of research, the DVLA have moved the goal posts, caused a headache and most insurers are not keeping up so passing that headache on to us, the consumer.

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