Rear rear suspension MOT failure

[Xabia]

Swift ................ no surprise at this reply.

 

[mikebeaches]

What a complete waste of breath. I ain't giving up on this.

crm@swiftleisure.co.uk

Our Ref. MC/ AP10773 30/01/2017
Mrs Josephine Rigby
Dear Mrs Rigby, 2012 Rhythm ~ F 2012 s/n AP10773

Thank you for your reply. I am very sorry to learn you are experiencing an issue with your motor home which has affected your MOT. I can confirm that we do not modify the base and I would be unable to advise you of the issue. I would advise you to contact Fiat to discuss this matter in further. Fiat number is - 0844 573 8000. I hope this information is helpful, if you should require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely
Maria Cowling Customer Services Advisor ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** Swift Group Limited

That is a seriously disappointing response from Swift Group, especially given it was your second attempt to seek assistance and advice from the company. They clearly have no interest whatsoever in providing support on this important matter for their customers.

 

[funflair]

Well, What a cop out, They designed,modified and supplied the vehicle, I find it unbelievable that they themselves could not be bothered to pursue the issue !

I understand what you are saying but they purchased a Fiat chassis capable of carrying their specified load so they have covered their bottoms and over to you Fiat,

Martin

 

[Minxy]

Fiat should be able to tell owners the exact specification of their vehicles as they left the factory so assuming the converter hasn't altered it, it is only Fiat who can confirm what it has.

Back to Fiat ...

 

[ludo]

I have to say that I am know lover of Swift and agree that they should not be selling motorhomes that they know will/may fail their first MOT's.

Having said that, those sentiments must also apply to every motothome, horse box, ambulance, etc., manufacturer using the Ducato as the base vehicle too, irrespective of who they are and where they are based but supplying to the UK. This is not forgetting the Fiat franchise dealers selling the Ducato as a delivery vehicle.

So, why should Swift be singled out to resolve this issue? Surely the motorhome industry collectively should, along with Fiat, be better placed to sort it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[funflair]

If Fiat have designed a suspension system that caused confusion in the testing system of the countries that they are selling into they should furnish the testing authorities with technical information, there again these vehicles must have passed UK approval so the MOT/gov should know that the design is different to a standard leaf spring and bump stop and issue technical notes to testing stations to avoid any confusion.

Martin

 

[Bobby22]

I have to say that I am know lover of Swift and agree that they should not be selling motorhomes that they know will/may fail their first MOT's.

Having said that, those sentiments must also apply to every motothome, horse box, ambulance, etc., manufacturer using the Ducato as the base vehicle too, irrespective of who they are and where they are based but supplying to the UK. This is not forgetting the Fiat franchise dealers selling the Ducato as a delivery vehicle.

So, why should Swift be singled out to resolve this issue? Surely the motorhome industry collectively should, along with Fiat, be better placed to sort it.

In my opinion the van should not be failed at an MOT test, the van, as @funflair has said has had type approval and a conformity certificate. MOT testers should be given the information so as not to confuse the issue.

MOT testers, in @Geo 's case, don't know the difference between Bump stops and Spring assisters and therefore have no alternative but to fail the vehicle.

The problem is not Swifts or any other converter it is DVSA/VOSA's as they know of the issue and haven't sent out a "Special Notice" that would rid us of the confusion and the stress.

Having said that, i think, Swift and MOT testers should be questioning the authorities to get a definitive answer to help their customers.

PS. My 2016 coachbuilt has Bump Stops.

 

[Terry]

Do you think I could claim my 2 x £420 back for MOT fails(new twin leaf springs) on both vans

 

[Bobby22]

Do you think I could claim my 2 x £420 back for MOT fails(new twin leaf springs) on both vans

I think you was robbed mate, did the bloke not have a striped jumper and a mas?.

 

[vin0114]

I DON'T BELIEVE IT.....WONDERS NEVER CEASE

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[vin0114]

I think you was robbed mate, did the bloke not have a striped jumper and a mas?.

My failure garage quoted £500 for new leafs.
Vin

 

[Minxy]

My goodness ... confirmation at last that those of us who said they were spring assistors weren't all talking b*llocks then ... despite what some other say ... I suggest anyone who has a Fiat/Peugeot etc keeps a copy of this email handy for MOT time!!!

 

[Minxy]

@vin0114 you might want to blank out your email address on your image so you don't get 'spammed'!

 

[Bobby22]

My failure garage quoted £500 for new leafs.
Vin

Ignorance is no excuse. I wonder what their position would have been if they had fitted them and it still showed no clearance?

 

[vin0114]

@vin0114 you might want to blank out your email address on your image so you don't get 'spammed'!

Thanks Mel.
Vin

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[vin0114]

@Bobby22 A case is already documented here kindly posted by @SandraL
Vin

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk...cato-X250-rear-leaf-springs-MOT-issues/23529/

 

[Terry]

I think you was robbed mate, did the bloke not have a striped jumper and a mas?.

£420 for a pair of new twin leaf springs fitted ?---I thought that was a good price considering I was quoted £320 plus vat just to buy the springs,on top of that I would have to collect them from Rotherham =another hour return plus fuel
terry

 

[Bobby22]

@Bobby22 A case is already documented here kindly posted by @SandraL
Vin

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk...cato-X250-rear-leaf-springs-MOT-issues/23529/

Yes Vin i already studied that link. The authorities have known for quite a while and seem to be dragging their heels.

I have contacted DVSA and so far have had this reply.

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 27th January 2017, concerning the above.

I have contacted the Private Vehicle Scheme Management Policy & Standards Team for advice in relation to your enquiry and you will receive a full response as soon as we have the relevant information.


I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards
Tina

Hopefully we will get an updated answer.

 

[Bobby22]

£420 for a pair of new twin leaf springs fitted ?---I thought that was a good price considering I was quoted £320 plus vat just to buy the springs,on top of that I would have to collect them from Rotherham =another hour return plus fuel
terry

Your van may be different from motorhome chassis @Terry as these spring assisters seem to be fitted onto lowered type chassis especially for motorhomes and other vehicles needing lower platforms.

As you converted a standard panel van, it must have been different. Your attention to detail still shines through though.

I would imagine the chassis being sent to converters are the spring assisted types and they may only being used on pvc's

The chassis on my new van is lower than my old van and neither have been Alko.....both coachbuilt.

The suspension on my new van has Bump Stops.

 

[vin0114]

Going back to the garage tomorrow with the DVSA reply.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Bobby22]

Going back to the garage tomorrow with the DVSA reply.

I wonder if the reply you've had would make any difference to @Geo as he can't tell the difference between BumpStops and these assisters????

 

[Gorse Hill]

I wonder if the reply you've had would make any difference to @Geo as he can't tell the difference between BumpStops and these assisters????

Think you made your point a few times now, I don't think it's as easy to tell the difference as you make out

 

[Minxy]

Going back to the garage tomorrow with the DVSA reply.

Ooooooo ... I'd love to be a fly on the wall!!!

 

[Bobby22]

Think you made your point a few times now, I don't think it's as easy to tell the difference as you make out

Do you think so? I can't remember,anywhere, that i 'make out' anything regarding the difference.
I am of the opinion that there is no new information and that ANY MOT tester, following protocol, has no new information and could quite easily fail these vans in the future.

 

[Gorse Hill]

Ap

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.........guess what its a drake.


Would the vehicle now pass its mot?

Geo, I do appreciate the information that you contribute to the forum, it is usually well informed and helpful. The assisters are an integral part of the suspension and due to your ignorance of the "new" suspension have advised members they can remove them as they are NOT a reason for rejection.

You clearly don't know of this type of suspension, so do you think you should be advising on it?

MOT testers, in @Geo 's case, don't know the difference between Bump stops and Spring assisters and therefore have no alternative but to fail the vehicle.

PS. My 2016 coachbuilt has Bump Stops.

I wonder if the reply you've had would make any difference to @Geo as he can't tell the difference between BumpStops and these assisters????

Do you think so? I can't remember,anywhere, that i 'make out' anything regarding the difference.
I am of the opinion that there is no new information and that ANY MOT tester, following protocol, has no new information and could quite easily fail these vans in the future.

Ap

Think it's fair to say you had a few digs at geo, just a few above to crack on with, there was another one but can't be arsed looking for it

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Gorse Hill]

Do you think so? I can't remember,anywhere, that i 'make out' anything regarding the difference.
I am of the opinion that there is no new information and that ANY MOT tester, following protocol, has no new information and could quite easily fail these vans in the future.

Think it's fair to say you had a few digs at geo, just a few above to crack on with, there was another one but can't be arsed looking for it

 

[pappajohn]

The question puzzling me is......

Regardless of item name or function, if it fails the MOT what do you replace it with ?

A new bump stop/assister will be the same dimensions, if not longer due to newness, so it will NEVER pass an MOT.
The only option is new springs but if the rubber is meant to sit on the spring as designed that won't make any difference either.

Posted before reading the relevant post...re: pass with advisory and VOSA's response.

 

[Bobby22]

Think it's fair to say you had a few digs at geo, just a few above to crack on with, there was another one but can't be arsed looking for it

I see no digs at Geo at all...... Geo in his postings has clearly stated that if it looks like a Bump Stop its a Bump Stop. He doesn't recognise the assisters he was/is quite adamant he would still fail these vans as there is no Special Notice.

He also disagreed with other MOT testers

What i have said and done on this thread is trying to be constructive, i have contacted DVSA trying to get to the bottom of the problem.

I'm sure if Geo thinks i am having a dig he'll let me know.

 

[sedge]

Well I'm hardly an ace mechanic - but the question I asked myself when I saw the pics on page 1, was 'How many bump stops have I ever seen that they'd used a lot of extra rubber on and a much more complicated shape, when they could have got away with something a damn sight plainer, easier and cheaper to make?' And I couldn't actually recall seeing any fancy ones.

(Now admittedly I don't crawl round under vehicles looking for such things, but I've seen quite a number of em stripped down when my first husband was working on them in his workshop.)

Likewise - when lots of heavy doors (schools, own halls etc etc) were common - they had very utilitarian bump stops screwed into their bottoms to stop em smacking into whatever was behind them and damaging it, or the door. No corrugations there either.

So - were I the MOT tester - I'd be asking myself 'Why is it like this instead of that?' - and jollywell trying to find out WHY before either passing or failing it.

Aren't they allowed to have enquiring minds in today's world?

 

[pappajohn]

From the MOT testers manual section 2:4 General

So there is a degree of doubt as to what it is and in VOSAs own words, the doubt should be on the presenters side and a pass issued.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}