Rear rear suspension MOT failure (1 Viewer)

[vin0114]

Spring assist or or bump stop that pic shows adequate clearance in my mind!

@Abacist The pic I posted was taken with van jacked up where I hoped to be able to photo the hole in the base. The orginal photo shows the assistor in full contact.
Vin

 

[canopus]

Have you got your MOT yet Vin?

 

[dabhand]

Have you got your MOT yet Vin?

Read the previous page laddie! Keep up man

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[vin0114]

I removed mine and fitted Dunlop air suspension but kept them just in case!

Here are two photos to show that they are hollow!

@Geo Does this help you determine that they are not bump stops?

View attachment 144629 View attachment 144630

@Abacist I did ask the tester this morning could he jack up the vehicle to hang the axle where he would see the hole in the assistor but he said not allowed or to remove the assistor to examine.
Vi

 

[vin0114]

Have you got your MOT yet Vin?

YES Ken thanks
Vin

 

[telsdog]

The correct result Vin in my opinion. Having been called a sheep is it safe for me to go to Wales?

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[vin0114]

Not sure if this link has been posted previously ... the onus for whether the vehicle passes or fails falls squarely on the tester KNOWING what they are looking at:

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-knowledge-spring-assisters-and-bump-stops/

Before failing a vehicle under this RfR, testers should first determine if a spring assister is fitted, and whether the suspension really is so weak that the body would foul a road wheel.
​

If a tester cannot fathom out whether it is a bump stop or a spring assister then they need to update their knowledge IMV and NOT expect the owner of the vehicle to tell them!

Hi Mel @Minxy Girl yes it has been posted earlier and that is the document that I think swung it!
thanks
Vin

 

[Minxy]

Hi Mel @Minxy Girl yes it has been posted earlier and that is the document that I think swung it!
thanks
Vin

... I thought it might have been but didn't want to wade back through all the 'huffing and puffing' to find it!

 

[sdc77]

Not sure if this link has been posted previously ... the onus for whether the vehicle passes or fails falls squarely on the tester KNOWING what they are looking at:

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-knowledge-spring-assisters-and-bump-stops/

Before failing a vehicle under this RfR, testers should first determine if a spring assister is fitted, and whether the suspension really is so weak that the body would foul a road wheel.
​

If a tester cannot fathom out whether it is a bump stop or a spring assister then they need to update their knowledge IMV and NOT expect the owner of the vehicle to tell them!

In fairness .. if Fiat don't call them spring assisters you can hardly blame the tester.
They invented a new name for them. Fiat are clearly the problem here not the testers.

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[Minxy]

In fairness .. if Fiat don't call them spring assisters you can hardly blame the tester.
They invented a new name for them. Fiat are clearly the problem here not the testers.

Sorry but they are the ones who are supposedly qualified to be able to tell the difference, not us mere mortals, they know there is a 'big' question about these so if I was the tester I would ensure that I obtained the knowledge to be able to accurately identify the parts ... even if it meant putting in some time to do research/looking at the actual parts in the flesh from vehicle manufacturers ... if not then as the tester I would simply refuse to do the test in the first place ... no different to doing any other skilled job.

 

[sdc77]

Sorry but they are the ones who are supposedly qualified to be able to tell the difference, not us mere mortals, they know there is a 'big' question about these so if I was the tester I would ensure that I obtained the knowledge to be able to accurately identify the parts ... even if it meant putting in some time to do research/looking at the actual parts in the flesh from vehicle manufacturers ... if not then as the tester I would simply refuse to do the test in the first place ... no different to doing any other skilled job.

It's in the same place as a bump stop and looks like a bump stop and is not called a spring assister. If they had called it a spring assister. ... no matter what it looked like ..then this would not be an issue.

 

[Bobby22]

I've read the whole thread and am not sure if they are bump stops or assisters, I think it's fair to say Geo knows the difference the problem is the manufacture/system
At least 2 testers think it's a fail and 1 who doesn't and a load of google experts
There's clearly an issue and hopefully the OP will get it resolved so he can get out and use his m/h

VSI from DVSA might help in identify the system used.

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[ludo]

I removed mine and fitted Dunlop air suspension but kept them just in case!

Here are two photos to show that they are hollow!

@Geo Does this help you determine that they are not bump stops?

View attachment 144629 View attachment 144630

That's not a Bump Stop it's a DILDO

 

[gus-lopez]

Can't believe you can't get a definitive answer on this matter, I think you should write to your MP, it will take his mind off Brexit! Talking of Brexit, there's another thing, under the European directive 33/45632/Azx463271B part 6 sub section 3, when we have our hard Brexit, won't the rules about spring assistors and bump stops as contained in Directive 33/45632/Azx463271B part 6 sub section 3 change anyway!!

Probably Yes, but you'd have already been failed on your high level brake light. Illegal under C&U rules & only legal under EU rules which take precedence when offering increased safety.

 

[maison]

The correct result Vin in my opinion. Having been called a sheep is it safe for me to go to Wales?

Of course you can!

We are getting our wellies on as we speak!

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[vin0114]

The correct result Vin in my opinion. Having been called a sheep is it safe for me to go to Wales?

@telsdog Thanks, and re 'pays de gaules' only if you wear wellies
Vin

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I still get annoyed about the cracked cover on the trailer light socket ( might allow water in and cause trailer light failure) It seems that the way the rules are read affect the outcome.

 

[telsdog]

I still get annoyed about the cracked cover on the trailer light socket ( might allow water in and cause trailer light failure) It seems that the way the rules are read affect the outcome.

Assuming your vehicle is class4 mot. The testing manual section 1.9 has information stating
A trailer electrical socket with a defective or missing cover flap that incorporates a lug and spring to hold the plug in place is not a reason for rejection.
Not sure what type of socket you have or what reason for rejection was used.
The mot testing manual is written in such a way to avoid ambiguity, and in my opinion there is very little. Disparity between testers normally occurs when the rfr is for example, excessive play. One mans excessive play i.e. Fail is another mans advise- play but not excessive i.e. Pass

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[telsdog]

By the way, for anybody that doesn't know, the Mot Testing Manual is available on internet for anybody to read.

 

[jaygee]

Only just picked up on this thread, so as a Tester/AE and owner of the business this gives you some idea of what us testers have to define.
Changing the thread slightly but hopefully making a point i had a all singing all dancing range rover in recently for a MOT, it had a broken sensor link there were 4 of them one on each corner underneath the vehicle, what did they do? they could have been for suspension stability, breaking compensator even head light leveling sensors, all of which are testable and covers a great deal of the testers manual.
Im not going to tell you the outcome of my decision as i do not want to get into a protracted discussion and its slightly off topic.
NUTS i am going to tell you anyway and sod the consequences, I Passed and advised i had no way of knowing what these sensors done, if they had been valves there is much more clarity in the manual but sensors ?
As for the OP question pretty much the same, what are they???what do they do??? not sure, Pass and advise.
There said it now
Head down

 

[vin0114]

@jaygee I can see your point in seeing stuff that is not covered in the MOT rules but maybe my problem was simpler in that the Spring assistors were seen to join the chassis to the axle leaf spring so a definite FAIL observing the MOT rules. Are you saying that you actually plug in to the vehicle diagnostics to search for faults like the broken sensor link?.
Vin

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[gerry mcg]

MOT pass or fail?
The van is brand new (2 weeks old <800 miles on clock) completely unladen with all tanks empty.
I would suggest that it is an MOT pass and designed to be like this and is a suspension assist, not a bump stop

 

[gus-lopez]

MOT pass or fail?
The van is brand new (2 weeks old <800 miles on clock) completely unladen with all tanks empty.
I would suggest that it is an MOT pass and designed to be like this and is a suspension assist, not a bump stop
View attachment 145999 View attachment 146000

I'd get rid before mot is due .

 

[vin0114]

MOT pass or fail?
The van is brand new (2 weeks old <800 miles on clock) completely unladen with all tanks empty.
I would suggest that it is an MOT pass and designed to be like this and is a suspension assist, not a bump stop
View attachment 145999 View attachment 146000

That looks the same spring assistor part number as fitted to my van except different in colour. When DVLA come back with their reply to my MOT FAIL complaint will determine my fight with Fiat.
Vin

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[vin0114]

My old spring assisters (which look the same as yours) lost the bottom section on both sides - the ride seemed much nicer

This is timely. When I bought my Doblo, I wasn't sure whether it had bumpstops or spring assisters. The Fiat garage said they were assisters, as did the Doblo forums. The independent garage I use referred to them as bumpstops last year when they advised me they were worn.

The replacements I fitted are now pretty much touching the leaf springs, whereas I thought a few years ago there was a small gap. The Doblo forums mention quite often that for heavily-loaded vans and taxi/wheelchair conversions this is to be expected. But I'm a bit worried about the MOT next week and whether I'm going to have to convince the garage that they are not bumpstops. This weekend, I'll be emptying everything out of the van to see if I can lift the rear a bit.

@1_man_and_his_dob(lo) Please let us know the outcome.
Vin

 

[jaygee]

@jaygee I can see your point in seeing stuff that is not covered in the MOT rules but maybe my problem was simpler in that the Spring assistors were seen to join the chassis to the axle leaf spring so a definite FAIL observing the MOT rules. Are you saying that you actually plug in to the vehicle diagnostics to search for faults like the broken sensor link?.
Vin

If as you Quote they are spring assistors then it should pass the MOT, if bump stops then a fail but looking at the structure and fitment of the component my opinion is that they are fitted as a suspension aid and not bump stop. In my experience a bump stop is a smaller more solid lump of rubber which is almost a fail safe last resort component to limit the axle hitting the chassis due to over loading or failure of springs. Only time we use diagnostic plug during MOT is to record the RPM of a petrol vehicle.

 

[vin0114]

If as you Quote they are spring assistors then it should pass the MOT, if bump stops then a fail but looking at the structure and fitment of the component my opinion is that they are fitted as a suspension aid and not bump stop. In my experience a bump stop is a smaller more solid lump of rubber which is almost a fail safe last resort component to limit the axle hitting the chassis due to over loading or failure of springs. Only time we use diagnostic plug during MOT is to record the RPM of a petrol vehicle.

Thanks @jaygee Just emailed Swift Leisure about these assistors but still waiting for news from DVLA.

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[vin0114]

Sent an email to Swift Leisure.

To: crm@swiftleisure.co.uk


Thank you for your reply on registering the change of ownership but my original query still needs answering so I am repeating the problem below.


MOT FAILURE 24/01/17

I have a 2012 Autocruise Rythm panel van conversion on a Fiat X250 Ducato LWB reg.NK12AYV. VIN.ZFA25000002073049.

My campervan was failed because of insufficient clearance between the extended bumpstop and the leaf spring.

The problem is that this particular variant have by Fiat design been fitted with spring assistors and they are much larger than a bump stop being hollow unlike a bum stop which is solid. Because of their physical size there is no gap between the axle and chassis demanded by the MOT test.


Several members of my motorhome club have much newer vans and some yet to have their first MOT. They all have the same issue of insufficient gap between axle and chassis and I am sure that the brand new vans that sit in your factory and showroom are exactly the same.


The garage MOT tester says there are no special notes about these assistors and so the rules he has dictates its a failure. On searching the internet I find that there are lots of similar cases since 2007 where people have received MOT failures and have been forced to uprate there suspensions at great and unnecessary cost. This is a shameful state of affairs.


I would appreciate you forwarding this complaint to the people responsible for issuing the Swift Certificate of Conformity. Mine was signed by a Andrew Thomas Spacey, Design and Development Manager. Surely these vehicles should be fit suspension-wise to pass a UK MOT test.


I enclose a photo of the offending item.



I look forward to your comments


Regards


V Rigby

 

[vin0114]

What a complete waste of breath. I ain't giving up on this.

crm@swiftleisure.co.uk

Our Ref. MC/ AP10773 30/01/2017
Mrs Josephine Rigby
Dear Mrs Rigby, 2012 Rhythm ~ F 2012 s/n AP10773

Thank you for your reply. I am very sorry to learn you are experiencing an issue with your motor home which has affected your MOT. I can confirm that we do not modify the base and I would be unable to advise you of the issue. I would advise you to contact Fiat to discuss this matter in further. Fiat number is - 0844 573 8000. I hope this information is helpful, if you should require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely
Maria Cowling Customer Services Advisor ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** Swift Group Limited

 

[jaygee]

Well, What a cop out, They designed,modified and supplied the vehicle, I find it unbelievable that they themselves could not be bothered to pursue the issue !

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