Question for owners of top-end motorhomes.

[TheMobileWanderer]

I don't have readily to hand, a Morelo or Cathargo MH, or anything of similar quality. So my question (whilst potentially silly) is:-

On the wood-grain internally, such as cupboard carcasses or tall end panels, are they proper wood veneer or are they (for the want if a better expression), stick-on lino-like veneer?

 

[Northernraider]

Most are plastic foil wrapped furniture board .. lightweight plywood.

Very few vans these days use real wood , a few capping here and there but solid wood is very heavy and payload is important.

 

[tacr2man]

American RVs if you are wanting solid wood to any degree

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

American RVs if you are wanting solid wood to any degree

Nope, I don't especially want or need solid veneers. I want my own vehicle to be as close to a topend MH, inside, when complete. In terms of electrical and plumbing spec, mine may be better?

 

[Northernraider]

Nope, I don't especially want or need solid veneers. I want my own vehicle to be as close to a topend MH, inside, when complete. In terms of electrical and plumbing spec, mine may be better?

I honestly can't understand why you don't just buy one that's already built . I've yet to see any self build that's better designed than factory built. Many have come close but never quite got there. Yes it means you can fit stuff you need and leave out stuff you don't but often at a cost greater than you could just buy one.

I built a few smaller campers on vw years back and I nearly did a self build on a vario for various reasons . But attempting to build a coachbuilt motorhome and making it better than any you could buy ...well you will be the first if you succeed as any I've seen so far have been terrible.

Van conversions I get , and overlander type builds too . I mean I'd be tempted by this with a body on it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22662256...pid=5339023013&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

But from what I gather you plan to buy new or nearly new and build from the chassis up.

Costly and I'll be surprised if you complete it ....and if in the end it was worth it.

Lot of second hand high end vans out there for sale that will retain their value more than a self build

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[manners]

My Carthago Compactline is an artificial veneer but it doesn't look like vinyl it is quite convincing that it's the real thing.

 

[AdrianChen]

I don't have readily to hand, a Morelo or Cathargo MH, or anything of similar quality. So my question (whilst potentially silly) is:-

On the wood-grain internally, such as cupboard carcasses or tall end panels, are they proper wood veneer or are they (for the want if a better expression), stick-on lino-like veneer?

I think up until 2020 Carthago did use wood veneer - our 2022 is synthetic. I am sure the absolute top end still will use wood.

All our boats used wood, but increasingly builders were moving towards other finishes on areas like bulkheads and so on, simply because customers increasingly wanted less old fashioned, and more contemporary style.

From the perspective of owning them, I prefer a well done synthetic, mixed with other finishes - natural wood is many different shades/grain even when using carefully matched stuff in some areas - the same interior can look very bland when synthetics are used simply because the colour is too uniform. Our last boats had a great deal of solid wood, which was very heavy, the floor was Amtico selected to match the grain pattern, but in grey - it worked well, and Amtico is very hard wearing.

Wood changes colour with UV, so lighter types such as maple turn yellow quite quickly, cherry fades very quickly, teak is now all farmed and softer than 30 years ago when the tree was 200 years old and 15 years for seasoning, most veneers are also only 0.6mm, which doesnt help, so its becoming a less desirable material from both an aesthetic, and serviceability perspective.

From a production perspective whilst pre-lacquered boards are available my experience is with pre laminated, and using a press to laminate, then up to 15 coats of lacquer to achieve a grain filled result. Its easy enough to use 2 coats, and some products (Movelack?) will give a good result but the grain definition is lower (doubt most would notice), and there will be some texture evident - Personally its good enough I think, but its an extra step vs synthetic. Once you come to install the furniture, the lacquer will be more prone to damage and will need protection, which is a pain.

If I were doing your project I would use a mix - with wood limited to the bits people notice, such as the main table, and areas like the bedroom, with real wood trims very well finished. If it is more of an adventure type vehicle, then I would go for much harder wearing materials, with little wood.

Just an opinion.....

 

[Ridgeway]

I think weight is the main driver in choosing materials, even in 7.5t machines.

 

[AdrianChen]

I think weight is the main driver in choosing materials, even in 7.5t machines.

Yes indeed - just under 50ft boat was 17, 250kg lightship (no extras/options)

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

I think up until 2020 Carthago did use wood veneer - our 2022 is synthetic. I am sure the absolute top end still will use wood.

All our boats used wood, but increasingly builders were moving towards other finishes on areas like bulkheads and so on, simply because customers increasingly wanted less old fashioned, and more contemporary style.

From the perspective of owning them, I prefer a well done synthetic, mixed with other finishes - natural wood is many different shades/grain even when using carefully matched stuff in some areas - the same interior can look very bland when synthetics are used simply because the colour is too uniform. Our last boats had a great deal of solid wood, which was very heavy, the floor was Amtico selected to match the grain pattern, but in grey - it worked well, and Amtico is very hard wearing.

Wood changes colour with UV, so lighter types such as maple turn yellow quite quickly, cherry fades very quickly, teak is now all farmed and softer than 30 years ago when the tree was 200 years old and 15 years for seasoning, most veneers are also only 0.6mm, which doesnt help, so its becoming a less desirable material from both an aesthetic, and serviceability perspective.

From a production perspective whilst pre-lacquered boards are available my experience is with pre laminated, and using a press to laminate, then up to 15 coats of lacquer to achieve a grain filled result. Its easy enough to use 2 coats, and some products (Movelack?) will give a good result but the grain definition is lower (doublt most would notice), and there will be some texture evident - Personally its good enough I think, but its and extra stem vs synthetic. Once you come to install the furniture, the lacquer will be more prone to damage and will need protection, which is a pain.

If I were doing your project I would use a mix - with wood limited to the bits people notice, such as the main table, and areas like the bedroom, with real wood trims very well finished. If it is more of an adveture type vehicle, then I would go for much harder wearing materials, with little wood.

Just an opinion.....

Thank you for that. Aiming high in my quest for luxurious interior (fix & fittings), I like Morelo and Carthago.
I think it makes sense, both practically and financially, to use the best finish where visible and equal quality where hidden.
My spreadsheet is growing as I list everything, including weights, prices and location (where I saw the best price). I'll add 20% to the total weight and add up the weight if likely travelling possessions before deciding on 7.5t or 10t.

There's no way I'll get below 7.5t with reasonable payload, I think.

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[wildcampers69]

I honestly can't understand why you don't just buy one that's already built . I've yet to see any self build that's better designed than factory built. Many have come close but never quite got there.

I have seen several and can assure you that someone with the skills to build it themselves will have far more attention to detail with an eye on exactly what they want, also anyone who doesnt have the skills can still build something they are very happy with for a fraction of the cost usually on a much newer and more premium platform ,where we do agree is on value retention that is the only downside however initial cost can offset a lot more than resale value down the line.

 

[Gover]

My Phoenix 9600SG has real wood internal structure and proper wooden veneer on cupboards etc. But then your question is about the experience of large luxury motor homes where weight is not a problem. The weight of my phoenix without car loaded was 9.5ton.
I know have a Carthago and every piece of wood and panelling is engineered to reduce weight, so now at 4.5ton. The difference between the two is staggering. The Phoenix is built like a 43ft yacht I had, and was almost good as new after many years service. I fear this may not be the case by my Carthago.

 

[1090alex]

I don't have readily to hand, a Morelo or Cathargo MH, or anything of similar quality. So my question (whilst potentially silly) is:-

On the wood-grain internally, such as cupboard carcasses or tall end panels, are they proper wood veneer or are they (for the want if a better expression), stick-on lino-like veneer?

Hi,
I have a Carthago Liner for Two It appears that the main furniture is constructed from quality board with a vineer. However several cupboards etc do seem to use wood in some areas. I do notice that Carthago seem to use a heavier gauge of board than most other manufacturers. They also have a lot of curved surfaces in their furniture design. Unlike a lot of manufacturers who use flat surfaces where ever possible.

 

[Three Stars]

The high end builders like Concorde, Morello, and Phoenix, use materials specially designed for motorhomes. Some light weight composite timber panels are used, along with aluminium and plastic materials. The floor of our Phoenix is a 45mm thick light weight honeycomb structure like that used for the floor in airliners. The roof and walls are a 45mm sandwich of PU foam between aluminium sheets. Nothing to rot!

 

[Lenny HB]

I think up until 2020 Carthago did use wood veneer - our 2022 is synthetic. I am sure the absolute top end still will use wood.

More like 2010.

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[nicholsong]

The high end builders like Concorde, Morello, and Phoenix, use materials specially designed for motorhomes. Some light weight composite timber panels are used, along with aluminium and plastic materials. The floor of our Phoenix is a 45mm thick light weight honeycomb structure like that used for the floor in airliners. The roof and walls are a 45mm sandwich of PU foam between aluminium sheets. Nothing to rot!

Aluminium sandwich goes further down the manufacturing chain - I think N&B started using it from when they were first in business, anyway our 2003 model has it. Hymer started a bit later and I think others have adopted it more recently.

Do any British manufacturers use it?

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

The high end builders like Concorde, Morello, and Phoenix, use materials specially designed for motorhomes. Some light weight composite timber panels are used, along with aluminium and plastic materials. The floor of our Phoenix is a 45mm thick light weight honeycomb structure like that used for the floor in airliners. The roof and walls are a 45mm sandwich of PU foam between aluminium sheets. Nothing to rot!

I saw such materials (honeycomb etc) in the morello website. My plan was to have closed cell insulation foam (eg Kingspan though that's just a brand), sandwiched between external uPVC or aluminium and internal FRP or PVC depending on which will be strong enough to secure wall units and suchlike. I was planning for 50mm foam but many windows etc require the wall thickness to be less than 50mm total so 40-45mm it may have to be. The roof especially should be as heat-transfer-resistant as possible but it, too, must accommodate windows and Heki.

Alloy skins would be good. My brothers 1994 talbot-fronted ducato has horrendous alloy hence my reticence in using it. The bottom 400mm needs to be replaced.

 

[Blaydon]

Hi there. We have a 2018 Laika. The garage door needed replacing and so I kept the old one to ‘salvage’ the wood panel. When I came to remove it from the frame, I found it was a very thin three ply stuck to a 30mm insulation board. I was hoping to separate them but gave up. The outer layer of the ply was a plastic coat for waterproofing. A few years ago we visited the factory and I scrounged a couple of plywood boards so I could make a shelf. They are three ply and about 3mm thick. The outer veneer is cherry but I’m sure this is a stain.
The interior cabinets have wood end caps. They may be veneered MDF but the appearance is wood.
The weight limit on our 7.4m van is 4.25t with at 1.2t payload.
We love it but not everyone likes wood finish with cream seat covers.

 

[jongood]

I think weight is the main driver in choosing materials, even in 7.5t machines.

It certainly is now, at 3.5 and 7.5 and even then a surprising amount are over

 

[jongood]

Thank you for that. Aiming high in my quest for luxurious interior (fix & fittings), I like Morelo and Carthago.
I think it makes sense, both practically and financially, to use the best finish where visible and equal quality where hidden.
My spreadsheet is growing as I list everything, including weights, prices and location (where I saw the best price). I'll add 20% to the total weight and add up the weight if likely travelling possessions before deciding on 7.5t or 10t.

There's no way I'll get below 7.5t with reasonable payload, I think.

The other issue people have is where they need to sell. People can be very reluctant to buy something without the backup of a brand and reputation (even though many end up buying from companies with dreadful reputations)

Of course you dont plan to sell now but circumstances change, and sometimes what people really thought they wanted, actually didn't work for them, witness the constant surplus of unused safari rooms from ex tuggers!

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[TheMobileWanderer]

Hi there. We have a 2018 Laika. The garage door needed replacing and so I kept the old one to ‘salvage’ the wood panel. When I came to remove it from the frame, I found it was a very thin three ply stuck to a 30mm insulation board. I was hoping to separate them but gave up. The outer layer of the ply was a plastic coat for waterproofing. A few years ago we visited the factory and I scrounged a couple of plywood boards so I could make a shelf. They are three ply and about 3mm thick. The outer veneer is cherry but I’m sure this is a stain.
The interior cabinets have wood end caps. They may be veneered MDF but the appearance is wood.
The weight limit on our 7.4m van is 4.25t with at 1.2t payload.
We love it but not everyone likes wood finish with cream seat covers.

Thank you Blaydon. Very helpful.

 

[manners]

I saw such materials (honeycomb etc) in the morello website. My plan was to have closed cell insulation foam (eg Kingspan though that's just a brand), sandwiched between external uPVC or aluminium and internal FRP or PVC depending on which will be strong enough to secure wall units and suchlike. I was planning for 50mm foam but many windows etc require the wall thickness to be less than 50mm total so 40-45mm it may have to be. The roof especially should be as heat-transfer-resistant as possible but it, too, must accommodate windows and Heki.

Alloy skins would be good. My brothers 1994 talbot-fronted ducato has horrendous alloy hence my reticence in using it. The bottom 400mm needs to be replaced.

Have you not thought of aluminium frames with glass windows with an external flange for sealing to the bodywork? I've seen Bimbol mobil overlander type vans with that type. I'm sure a good window fabricator could custom make something.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

The other issue people have is where they need to sell. People can be very reluctant to buy something without the backup of a brand and reputation (even though many end up buying from companies with dreadful reputations)

Of course you dont plan to sell now but circumstances change, and sometimes what people really thought they wanted, actually didn't work for them, witness the constant surplus of unused safari rooms from ex tuggers!

Thank you; yes I agree.
I wouldn't buy a home-built thing from some random guy. I don't want to buy branded with all the compromises they include, such as minimal solar and spec in general, to make profit. And I can't yet afford a top-end one. Nothing wrong with profit btw so long as product isn't lessened, imv.

The body build will be professional with as tight a set of terms as they'll agree to before I'm committed to pay. I.e. if it doesn't match the build spec, it won't be considered completed.

The electrics plumbing and interior will be assembled by me and certified as appropriate. And whether home made or bespoke or obtained from a top brand, each component install will be videoed so any potential buyer will see it properly, from the video, whilst it's in situ in the MH.

Some over-specification, weight permitting, to minimse wear and tear such as, for example, push-button actuator-activated kitchen larder/tower pull-out and sliding doors between shower room and the kitchen and bedroom.

Base vehicle is the current brain-buster. Daf LF45 looks a little 'commercial' for my taste yet readily available on used market with temp-controlled body - ie, insulated. Iveco Daily is nice but I haven't seen one on used market with a long enough chassis. Much much prefer 6 cylinders over four too.

I may seem overly optimistic but I'd rather scale back, as may be necessary, than overlook something which is best put in at build time.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Have you not thought of aluminium frames with glass windows with an external flange for sealing to the bodywork? I've seen Bimbol mobil overlander type vans with that type. I'm sure a good window fabricator could custom make something.

Thank you. I'm up for considering anything. Quite open-minded, I am. I don't want to create thermal bridges, however, and alloy from outside to inside may just cause that unless, I suppose, an intermediate layer were added. Pondering....

 

[manners]

Thank you. I'm up for considering anything. Quite open-minded, I am. I don't want to create thermal bridges, however, and alloy from outside to inside may just cause that unless, I suppose, an intermediate layer were added. Pondering....

Aluminium frames can have a plastic section between the outer and inner frame to stop thermal bridging, laminated tinted glass and decent locks are also a plus point.

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[Peregrinator]

I don't have readily to hand, a Morelo or Cathargo MH, or anything of similar quality. So my question (whilst potentially silly) is:-

On the wood-grain internally, such as cupboard carcasses or tall end panels, are they proper wood veneer or are they (for the want if a better expression), stick-on lino-like veneer?

A few top design ones use resin boards, they look good and last, they are tough too.

 

[jongood]

Thank you; yes I agree.
I wouldn't buy a home-built thing from some random guy. I don't want to buy branded with all the compromises they include, such as minimal solar and spec in general, to make profit. And I can't yet afford a top-end one. Nothing wrong with profit btw so long as product isn't lessened, imv.

The body build will be professional with as tight a set of terms as they'll agree to before I'm committed to pay. I.e. if it doesn't match the build spec, it won't be considered completed.

The electrics plumbing and interior will be assembled by me and certified as appropriate. And whether home made or bespoke or obtained from a top brand, each component install will be videoed so any potential buyer will see it properly, from the video, whilst it's in situ in the MH.

Some over-specification, weight permitting, to minimse wear and tear such as, for example, push-button actuator-activated kitchen larder/tower pull-out and sliding doors between shower room and the kitchen and bedroom.

Base vehicle is the current brain-buster. Daf LF45 looks a little 'commercial' for my taste yet readily available on used market with temp-controlled body - ie, insulated. Iveco Daily is nice but I haven't seen one on used market with a long enough chassis. Much much prefer 6 cylinders over four too.

I may seem overly optimistic but I'd rather scale back, as may be necessary, than overlook something which is best put in at build time.

I prefer a 6 cylinder truck, however you do need at least a C license for them as most 7.5t stuff tends to be 4 cylinder for the weight. I see quite a few box bodies with drop down tailifts with a patio door behind them, this has 2 benefits, 1 that you can great a great verranda, 2 it makes it very easy to load a motorcycle or scooter. The downside of this arrangement is you get little or no access from cab to habitation.

 

[philann]

Don’t forget that most, if not all coachbuilt and A class motorhomes are built from the inside out, with the the body sides etc added after the internal fitment.

 

[CazPaul]

Don’t forget that most, if not all coachbuilt and A class motorhomes are built from the inside out, with the the body sides etc added after the internal fitment.

Ours was built with the structure first then everything inside added, at the time the brochure said” You wouldnt build the inside of a house first then add the walls and roof after”

 

[G1969]

Ours was built with the structure first then everything inside added, at the time the brochure said” You wouldnt build the inside of a house first then add the walls and roof after”

As building technologies have moved on timber frame houses are built inside out, not that I am a fan of them.