Pros and cons of tag axels? (1 Viewer)

[Tony68000]

In our never ending search for a MH, we’ve automatically dismissed tag axels vehicles, but perhaps we shouldn’t…

We‘re looking for a van no less than around 7m, we will occasionally have 4 adults and a large dog, so the space is desirable for us.

Going above 7m isn’t necessary an issue for us, although that seems to be the sweet-spot.

What should I be concerned about? Will some sites not take these? Will I have more trouble parking at britstops type places?

It’s unlikely we’ll ever take the van to Europe more than once or twice in the next 5 years, if we do, it’ll be France, we’re not in a position for long trips.

So, U.K. based, lots of long weekends away, with a couple of longer trips around the U.K. each year.

Should we open up our search to something bigger / with a tag axel?

Are there things I should be aware of beyond 2 extra tyres and the extra length?

 

[Jev88]

Tag have higher weight capacity generally.
Some sites don't like them as more likely churn up grass but only some!

 

[OldCodger]

You don’t have to have a tag axle to go long.

We have a 7.8 m van with a rear lounge. It is not a Tag axle but has the higher weight capacity because it has four wheels on the single rear axle. Ours is a Mercedes chassis but there are Fiat Equivalents. Our Max Weight is 5.5 Tonne - fully loaded. All tanks full and all the food/clutter you need we are about 600kg under that.

It may be an alternative for you.

Prior to that we had a rear lounge Bessacar 496 with electric drop down bed over the middle area. 7.7 m and 4.2 tonne. Normal axles.

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[82125]

Bear in mind CC dont tell you but their max length for bookings is 8m.
I couldnt understand why i couldnt book any sites, their hopeless website and app doesnt think to tell you. you have to ring every single campsite to check if they have availability and if they can take MH's longer than 8m (which makes membership pointless during busy times and makes booking a real PITA).

 

[Al n Val]

We’ve had our tag 3 years and never had an issue, it’s 8.8mtrs, actually with the bike rack on it’s around 9.4mtrs.

We can seat if we wanted 7/8 adults in the lounge area albeit snugly and that still leaves a full sized double bed in the bedroom. 4 people is a doddle with both front swivel seats unused

Usually in fact 99% of the time it’s just the 2 of us but we love the room we have to chill out if sat inside

I’d actually say the UK has larger pitches than a lot we’ve been on in France & Spain or certainly thanks what i’m thinking.

There is no substitute for a bit more room inside

Al

 

[tacr2man]

3 axle vehicles will usually wear the third axle tyres faster , same as fwd tends to wear the front tyres faster than a rwd vehicle . So you could end up using tyres a bit faster than a twin tyre rear axle . Tag axle vehicles will also be marginally quicker to get stuck on soft ground if not awd .

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[tonyidle]

I'm much happier with twin-wheels: one axle, one set of suspension components, and one set of brakes. Less drag too. I think three axles on a FWD van is a fashion statement with no real world advantages.

 

[Mixyblob]

We've owned two tag axle motorhomes in the past, both Hobby 700's. We lived in one of them for 7 months between houses and were never once refused entry to any site even though it was over the winter months.
The only down side of our particular tags was that the front wheels would lose traction at just the mention of wet grass.
4.5 tonnes and FWD are not a good combination.

 

[JockandRita]

In our never ending search for a MH, we’ve automatically dismissed tag axels vehicles, but perhaps we shouldn’t…

We‘re looking for a van no less than around 7m, we will occasionally have 4 adults and a large dog, so the space is desirable for us.

Going above 7m isn’t necessary an issue for us, although that seems to be the sweet-spot.

What should I be concerned about? Will some sites not take these? Will I have more trouble parking at britstops type places?

It’s unlikely we’ll ever take the van to Europe more than once or twice in the next 5 years, if we do, it’ll be France, we’re not in a position for long trips.

So, U.K. based, lots of long weekends away, with a couple of longer trips around the U.K. each year.

Should we open up our search to something bigger / with a tag axel?

Are there things I should be aware of beyond 2 extra tyres and the extra length?

We owned and ran a tandem (not tag) axled MH for 14 x years without any problems with turning circles (just take it wide), excessive tyre wear, or levelling on ramps. The one and only downside was the extra axle when using the French toll roads, as it could/would incurr a Class 4 tarrif, ie, the same as for a 44 tonner Artic so best avoid those routes. Other countries (Italy, Spain, and Croatia), charged either under 3.5T or over 3.5T, but were reasonably priced. We up plated ours from 4.5T to 5.5T, and still didn't experience any problems re weight or site refusal.

A tandem axle can be handy, when it comes to changing a wheel after a flat tyre, ie, run the good tyre up onto a ramp, thereby lowering the wheel with the flat on it, allowing easier access to remove and change. If a high enough ramp, you may even get away without having to use a jack.
They are also more stable in side winds, and from the buffering from over overtaking/passing trucks and coaches.

A tag axle is normally one which precedes or trails a driven axle, and can often be raised, as found on HGV tractor units and rigid bulk tippers. A tandem axle setup is simply 2 x non driven axles together. For weighbridge purposes, although weighed separately, because of their close proximity to each other on the Alko MH or trailer/caravan chassis, they are often counted as one axle regarding the combined weights, so effectively the same as one axle with twin wheels. Not so with larger commercial trailers though.

The application of £PMSF Winter Tyres on the FWD axle paid off big time, on wet muddy grass and snow and ice conditions here in the UK. I now have 3PMSF All Season tyres in our RWD MH.

Bear in mind CC dont tell you but their max length for bookings is 8m.
I couldnt understand why i couldnt book any sites, their hopeless website and app doesnt think to tell you. you have to ring every single campsite to check if they have availability and if they can take MH's longer than 8m (which makes membership pointless during busy times and makes booking a real PITA).

I don't register our MH dimensions with the CAMC, and book online by entering 8.00 metres when booking a pitch. I did try anything from 8.5m down to 8.01m without joy, but as soon as I entered 8.00m, the online booking was accepted, without having to phone and ask.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[Al n Val]

I think three axles on a FWD van is a fashion statement with no real world advantages.

I'm not sure i'd agree with you Tony, i've never thought as our tag as a fashion statement and the real world advantages is we have 2 full length sofa's inside so we can get our feet up, and relax very comfortably as if we were at home and still have room for everything else. Its like driving a bungalow around tbh.

As mention by Jock earlier, ours in very stable whilst driving it as well, infact its a pleasure to drive especially on the european roads

 

[Jackd]

We had a tag axle until recently. We used cc and private sites with no problems at all. The difference the extra weight and axle makes to the handling is chalk and cheese. Very rarely will you ever feel the effects of wind and passing HGV’s.
As previously mentioned, traction can sometimes a pain. But so long as you’re mindful, it won’t be an issue. We had the 3.0ltr and could get the front end scrabbling for grip in second gear on wet roads if I was being a little too eager.
I personally never found 9m to be an issue at all. What’s an extra 1m - 1.5m out the back?
The extra space inside a large van is a luxury in the British climate. The 7.5m continental layout that we currently have can be snug when you’re trapped in it for the day because it’s raining cats n dogs.
Don’t discount them from your search. Take one for a drive as I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised

 

[tonyidle]

I'm not sure i'd agree with you Tony, i've never thought as our tag as a fashion statement and the real world advantages is we have 2 full length sofa's inside so we can get our feet up, and relax very comfortably as if we were at home and still have room for everything else. Its like driving a bungalow around tbh.

As mention by Jock earlier, ours in very stable whilst driving it as well, infact its a pleasure to drive especially on the european roads

Mine is 8M and on twin wheels. And stable.

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[82125]

I'm much happier with twin-wheels: one axle, one set of suspension components, and one set of brakes. Less drag too. I think three axles on a FWD van is a fashion statement with no real world advantages.

other than the 1000+kg usable payload

 

[tonyidle]

other than the 1000+kg usable payload

My twin-wheeler is 5.4 tonnes MAM.

 

[82125]

We owned and ran a tandem (not tag) axled MH for 14 x years without any problems with turning circles (just take it wide), excessive tyre wear, or levelling on ramps. The one and only downside was the extra axle when using the French toll roads, as it could/would incurr a Class 4 tarrif, ie, the same as for a 44 tonner Artic so best avoid those routes. Other countries (Italy, Spain, and Croatia), charged either under 3.5T or over 3.5T, but were reasonably priced. We up plated ours from 4.5T to 5.5T, and still didn't experience any problems re weight or site refusal.

A tandem axle can be handy, when it comes to changing a wheel after a flat tyre, ie, run the good tyre up onto a ramp, thereby lowering the wheel with the flat on it, allowing easier access to remove and change. If a high enough ramp, you may even get away without having to use a jack.
They are also more stable in side winds, and from the buffering from over overtaking/passing trucks and coaches.

A tag axle is normally one which precedes or trails a driven axle, and can often be raised, as found on HGV tractor units and rigid bulk tippers. A tandem axle setup is simply 2 x non driven axles together. For weighbridge purposes, although weighed separately, because of their close proximity to each other on the Alko MH or trailer/caravan chassis, they are often counted as one axle regarding the combined weights, so effectively the same as one axle with twin wheels. Not so with larger commercial trailers though.

The application of £PMSF Winter Tyres on the FWD axle paid off big time, on wet muddy grass and snow and ice conditions here in the UK. I now have 3PMSF All Season tyres in our RWD MH.


I don't register our MH dimensions with the CAMC, and book online by entering 8.00 metres when booking a pitch. I did try anything from 8.5m down to 8.01m without joy, but as soon as I entered 8.00m, the online booking was accepted, without having to phone and ask.

Cheers,

Jock.

good idea.
When i finally rang CC to say their useless website refuses to allow me to book anything they then told me about the 8m max limit. I was trying to book in Delamere Forest, but they still tried to claim the pitches were only 8m so i couldnt go
The sites huge! Its a forest! When i rang the site direct they said its no problem.
CC website and app is dismal. I must learn to stop being honest, ill state 8m from now on.

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[82125]

My twin-wheeler is 5.4 tonnes MAM.

i wasnt suggesting you cant get good payload in a single rear axle? (but as it turned out, I couldnt in the spec and layout I wanted)

 

[Al n Val]

Mine is 8M and on twin wheels. And stable.

thats lovely Tony

has it got more or less 2 x full length seats inside so you can sprawl out of relax as well, if so thats a bonus

 

[G7UXG]

I’ve had one for 2 years, toured France, Germany and UK without any problems. We’re 8.1m long, Fiat Ducato / Alko, played at 5000kg but could be easily increased.

Load capacity of about 1000kg but only weighs about 4800 in full touring mode, so need to upgrade for us.

Only had single rear axles prior to this and, as already said, difference in ride and stability is chalk and cheese compared with Alko single rear axle.

Greatly improved ride quality and stability. Lower tyre pressures probably help, only about 50 to 55psi in the rears (each axle 1600kgs) instead of 70 to 80psi on a 2500kg single rear axle.

Turning circle is a bit larger but, other than that, no downsides for us. Done 12500 miles so far. Rear tyres aren’t even half worn yet, so no complaints there. Fronts are showing more wear than the rears.

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[Al n Val]

I’ve had one for 2 years, toured France, Germany and UK without any problems. We’re 8.1m long, Fiat Ducato / Alko, played at 5000kg but could be easily increased.

Load capacity of about 1000kg but only weighs about 4800 in full touring mode, so need to upgrade for us.

Only had single rear axles prior to this and, as already said, difference in ride and stability is chalk and cheese compared with Alko single rear axle.

Greatly improved ride quality and stability. Lower tyre pressures probably help, only about 50 to 55psi in the rears (each axle 1600kgs) instead of 70 to 80psi on a 2500kg single rear axle.

Turning circle is a bit larger but, other than that, no downsides for us. Done 12500 miles so far. Rear tyres aren’t even half worn yet, so no complaints there. Fronts are showing more wear than the rears.

Speaking of tyres

just checked and all 4 rears look perfect condition, probably half worn, after having done 18800 miles, the fronts look like they'll do another 18000 miles but may have to consider changing them before we drive through France in Jan for some winter/snow ones unless someone tells me different

 

[tonyidle]

thats lovely Tony

has it got more or less 2 x full length seats inside so you can sprawl out of relax as well, if so thats a bonus

One's sightly longer than the other but yes I think so - can't check because they're covered in dogs. What it does have is a close to domestic size shower and a big water tank .

 

[Jo662]

Speaking of tyres

just checked and all 4 rears look perfect condition, probably half worn, after having done 18800 miles, the fronts look like they'll do another 18000 miles but may have to consider changing them before we drive through France in Jan for some winter/snow ones unless someone tells me different

my tag axle did 56000 miles on the rear four tyres,and they all seemed to wear evenly. Iv had two sets on the front in that time!

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[Al n Val]

One's sightly longer than the other but yes I think so - can't check because they're covered in dogs. What it does have is a close to domestic size shower and a big water tank .

yes ours has a similar sized shower and 120ltr water tank

 

[tonyidle]

Your side seating is much bigger than mine but I have a 220l water tank.

 

[Al n Val]

Your side seating is much bigger than mine but I have a 220l water tank.

So the tag axel does has it advantages then, it allows for larger seats for more dogs but alas, less water carrying ability to wash the crap off them

I have room for a much larger water tank but its not needed, having a 220ltr one though has to be a fashion statement

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[tonyidle]

So the tag axel does has it advantages then, it allows for larger seats for more dogs but alas, less water carrying ability to wash the crap off them

I have room for a much larger water tank but its not needed, having a 220ltr one though has to be a fashion statement

A big shower needs big water. Now where's that 100l cassette option.

 

[138go]

We've recently downsized, mainly because my husband is 70 and doesn't want the extra hassle of changing his licence and having a medical.

We're finding many advantages in having something smaller. When we're away we go out and about in the motorhome, as it's easy to park. We've taken it to the beach first thing in the morning and I've cooked bacon sandwiches, with a sea view. Having our own toilet with us has been fantastic this past year and having hand washing facilities.

We've taken the grandchildren out to several different places in it and gone back to the motorhome for lunch. Much cheaper than buying something. So that's four of us and a dog, yet still plenty of room.

We don't need Angles Morts and we won't be paying extra on the tolls.

We've realised that comfortable beds are essential and comfortable seating. We like the captains chairs, which when turned around are brilliant, as you can put your feet up. We don't need a big bathroom and shower, because you don't actually spend much time in there.

 

[Abacist]

We owned and ran a tandem (not tag) axled MH for 14 x years without any problems with turning circles (just take it wide), excessive tyre wear, or levelling on ramps. The one and only downside was the extra axle when using the French toll roads, as it could/would incurr a Class 4 tarrif, ie, the same as for a 44 tonner Artic so best avoid those routes. Other countries (Italy, Spain, and Croatia), charged either under 3.5T or over 3.5T, but were reasonably priced. We up plated ours from 4.5T to 5.5T, and still didn't experience any problems re weight or site refusal.

A tandem axle can be handy, when it comes to changing a wheel after a flat tyre, ie, run the good tyre up onto a ramp, thereby lowering the wheel with the flat on it, allowing easier access to remove and change. If a high enough ramp, you may even get away without having to use a jack.
They are also more stable in side winds, and from the buffering from over overtaking/passing trucks and coaches.

A tag axle is normally one which precedes or trails a driven axle, and can often be raised, as found on HGV tractor units and rigid bulk tippers. A tandem axle setup is simply 2 x non driven axles together. For weighbridge purposes, although weighed separately, because of their close proximity to each other on the Alko MH or trailer/caravan chassis, they are often counted as one axle regarding the combined weights, so effectively the same as one axle with twin wheels. Not so with larger commercial trailers though.

The application of £PMSF Winter Tyres on the FWD axle paid off big time, on wet muddy grass and snow and ice conditions here in the UK. I now have 3PMSF All Season tyres in our RWD MH.


I don't register our MH dimensions with the CAMC, and book online by entering 8.00 metres when booking a pitch. I did try anything from 8.5m down to 8.01m without joy, but as soon as I entered 8.00m, the online booking was accepted, without having to phone and ask.

Cheers,

Jock.

I was told if I turned up to a booked pitch and had underdeclared the length I could be turned away if they did not have a pitch big enough!

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[Abacist]

We love our 8.8m tag axle but pitches and aires abroad can sometimes be a problem and very dear for motorway tolls as treated as 3 axle lorry!

 

[Abacist]

I did once compare a Hymer tag axle to a Hymer Merc 4 wheel rear axle and the Merc base wallowed like a pig compared to the tag axle.

 

[Mixyblob]

.