Propane 101 - inc. tips on leak checking

[kevenh]

This looks useful for starting out with motorhome gas installs.

For example: The last few times I’ve been in our gas locker I’ve noticed a smell. It’s very minor because opening the door clears away the smell. There’s no hiss.
We’ve rubber tubes and a recently changed propane bottle,
I have turned the locking nut a little tighter for possibly a small improvement.
We have made extensive use of our gas heater while in the motorhome.

I’ll look at making up a spray to check better on what the cause of the smell is.
Now we’re home and the gas has been shut off there’s no smell.

 

[Lenny HB]

Always carry one of these in the van.

Amazon product ASIN B008ASXV8W

 

[chaser]

Always carry one of these in the van.

Amazon product ASIN B008ASXV8W

Ditto, brilliant piece of kit, we always had a very faint smell if we lifted the seats over the water heater but could never pin anything down with soaper water or anything, then bought one of these things and poked it in places you couldn't see, and it buzzed straight up underneath the heater but as it right on top of a drop out it was mostly going down there , anyway it turned out to be a nut just one flat off being right tight.
Anyway always use it now when changing bottle, and it's surprising how tight these need to be , a couple of times now it's found a leak when I thought I had fully tightened it.

 

[Richard n Ann]

The electronic detector we use at work is amazing (mind it was about 400 quid). It can detect refrigerant even when you put suds on and they don't bubble ? but it never lies, if it goes off several times in a certain place.. There's a leak.

Forget the make... I'll have a think.

Edit: D-TEK

 

[Springer2]

I used to work for a company that installed propane systems and we used a spray bottle with a solution of washing up liquid and water. If there is a leak it will bubble ?

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[Richard n Ann]

If there is a leak it will bubble ?

Not always, but some of the leaks we look for are absolutely molecular. I suppose losing a few molecules of propane a week doesn't matter ?

 

[icantremember]

The rubber tails always allow the smell of lpg to permeate into the locker and it's not enough to be dangerous.

We had the same smell which we cured by fitting stainless tails,

 

[wasp]

I buy leak detector spray from the local plumbers merchant, but I also got a sniffer that’s good but expensisive.

 

[kevenh]

OK!!! I've bought a Honeywell ZPFL1 EZ Sense Flammable Gas Detector
My 1st qualifying 2020 staff discount purchase

 

[pwilmo]

Hey up Funsters
Great to hear your looking after gas/ propane safety.
However make sure the device you use is intrinsically safe, because if you use a device that is not, then by accident you could have an explosive mixture of gas, and ... in goes your device and off go your eyebrows and hair.
I "worked" (I said it before you did!) ... for British Gas / Transco dealing with gas escapes for 30 years and have first hand experience.
100% concentration of gas will not combust, but when you open a door air will flow in and dilute the concentration, the explosive mixture "GIA" for gas is between 5-10% gas, so little gas, big bang.
Propane is twice as heavy as natural gas, so will lay heavy to the floor, it has been known to flow downhill and collect in someone's garage. CH4 natural gas, is lighter than air and concentrates at high level.
Although most propane lockers have bottom vents to allow propane leakage to vent, you may be unlucky by testing in the wrong place at the wrong time, where the gas concentration is at potential explosive level.
Bubbles is safer, but if you want accurate measurement please make sure your device is intrinsically safe.
Most of the devices I looked at, mention a warm up period, the detectors are using a heat source to analyse the gas, is it properly sealed to prevent causing a possible ignition source?
Sorry to be so serious.

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[Baggydave]

Leak detector From toolstation or screwfix. It’s a soapy spray & only a few quid.

 

[TheBig1]

Hey up Funsters
Great to hear your looking after gas/ propane safety.
However make sure the device you use is intrinsically safe, because if you use a device that is not, then by accident you could have an explosive mixture of gas, and ... in goes your device and off go your eyebrows and hair.
I "worked" (I said it before you did!) ... for British Gas / Transco dealing with gas escapes for 30 years and have first hand experience.
100% concentration of gas will not combust, but when you open a door air will flow in and dilute the concentration, the explosive mixture "GIA" for gas is between 5-10% gas, so little gas, big bang.
Propane is twice as heavy as natural gas, so will lay heavy to the floor, it has been known to flow downhill and collect in someone's garage. CH4 natural gas, is lighter than air and concentrates at high level.
Although most propane lockers have bottom vents to allow propane leakage to vent, you may be unlucky by testing in the wrong place at the wrong time, where the gas concentration is at potential explosive level.
Bubbles is safer, but if you want accurate measurement please make sure your device is intrinsically safe.
Most of the devices I looked at, mention a warm up period, the detectors are using a heat source to analyse the gas, is it properly sealed to prevent causing a possible ignition source?
Sorry to be so serious.

A mate of mine was on the road crew for BG for many years. You often saw him in the trench with a fag in his mouth. Scared some people stupid, but he had "a nose" for gas. Too little was safe as you know. He retired with 40 plus years on the job

 

[pwilmo]

Yup for sure, he knew his stuff and was familiar with his job.
However, other Funsters may not have amassed your mate's work experience with gas and might need a little guidance, or maybe something to consider.
Cor Blimey ... the tricks we used to do on the gas ... Elf and Safety would lock me up for life.
Hopefully I learnt from my wayward ways and can now dish out sage advice.

 

[kevenh]

Haven't set aside time to use the gas sniffer, etc.
I hope it's just a poor seal on the recently changed propane bottle.

Is some

useful to use on the bottle to pigtail hose? Or should a secure connection be ez without?

 

[TheBig1]

Haven't set aside time to use the gas sniffer, etc.
I hope it's just a poor seal on the recently changed propane bottle.

Is some

useful to use on the bottle to pigtail hose? Or should a secure connection be ez without?

on butane you rely on a neoprene seal, but propane and most other lpg joints are tapered so a quarter turn past hand tight will seal. No place for ptfe sealing those sort of joints

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[kevenh]

Thanks for the feedback re. tape v no-tape.
I thought tapeless was the way to go.

Anyway, to finally close up this thread, I used the Honeywell sensor.
1. In the locker, I turned the gas on & checked the pipe path from regulator to bottle.
No reaction from the sensor.
2. I went inside the MH & turned on a hob gas ring.
The sensor didn't like that!!
3. After waiting for the sensor to calm down, I went back to the locker and checked the pipe path from regulator to bottle.
OK, this time with the sensor by the tap & pigtail the alarm did go off.

Because the only change between the all good state & this small gas leak concern was me changing the bottle, I turned off the gas, removed the pigtail. Looked for foreign bodies (grit, etc. - none found) and refitted the pipe.
This time making an effort to apply some effort. Just with the leverage of the spanner so no risk of overtightening.

Then I repeated the above steps. No problem reported by the sensor this time
And because I had walked away with the bottle left turned on I could repeat step 3 twice. Sorted.
The Honeywell sensor lives in the MH so I can recheck as needed.

Thanks all

 

[EX51SSS]

Hey up Funsters
Great to hear your looking after gas/ propane safety.
However make sure the device you use is intrinsically safe, because if you use a device that is not, then by accident you could have an explosive mixture of gas, and ... in goes your device and off go your eyebrows and hair.
I "worked" (I said it before you did!) ... for British Gas / Transco dealing with gas escapes for 30 years and have first hand experience.
100% concentration of gas will not combust, but when you open a door air will flow in and dilute the concentration, the explosive mixture "GIA" for gas is between 5-10% gas, so little gas, big bang.
Propane is twice as heavy as natural gas, so will lay heavy to the floor, it has been known to flow downhill and collect in someone's garage. CH4 natural gas, is lighter than air and concentrates at high level.
Although most propane lockers have bottom vents to allow propane leakage to vent, you may be unlucky by testing in the wrong place at the wrong time, where the gas concentration is at potential explosive level.
Bubbles is safer, but if you want accurate measurement please make sure your device is intrinsically safe.
Most of the devices I looked at, mention a warm up period, the detectors are using a heat source to analyse the gas, is it properly sealed to prevent causing a possible ignition source?
Sorry to be so serious.

And the same with torches too. If you're going into a locker or searching and you need a light, ensure that the torch or source of light is intrinsically safe. Btw, batteries in the torches also need to be intrinsically safe.

 

[Lenny HB]

propane and most other lpg joints are tapered so a quarter turn past hand tight will seal. No place for ptfe sealing those sort of joints

Only on UK exchange bottles a lot of other propane bottles have a washer like the re-fillables.