Pro’s and con’s of up- plating

[Ralph Hardwick]

My first post, so please be gently .

In the new year we are planning on buying our first motorhome. At the time of purchase the dealer can up-plate the van from 3500 kg to 3650kg for £99.

The motohome we want has a fairly respectable payload (well over 500kg) but I just wanted to explore the options and see if it was a worthwhile addition or not.

Pro’s
I am aware that the road tax is lower.
Obviously we can carry more ‘stuff’ ( not necessarily a good thing ), but more importantly we won’t have to worry so much about what we do carry.

Con’s
It limited the market to C1 drivers when we come to sell it ( unless we down- plate it). We do plan to keep it for quite a long time so this may be less of an issue in the short term.
I know there are issues when I get over 70, but I’m only 58, so I still have while before I have to worry about it.

There are just two of us, and it’s just a 2 seat, 2 berth and we plan to spend, at least, 3-6 months each year touring the UK, EU, Scandinavia and possible North Africa and some of the Adriatic states including Turkey.

Are there any other for’s And against’s that you lovelies are aware of?

Ta very much.

 

[Mikeco]

Go for it, by the time you are 70 you will have changed the van at least four times.

 

[Nirvanauk]

Are you sure it has a payload of 500kg? I was told the same and that might have been true before the conversion but took mine to a weigh bridge and it came out at 3.4t. This was with no water,bikes,dog or supplies so I have to be very careful.

 

[Mr Colpot]

I would check the payload to see what the real payload figure is. All the vans we have had have had less than the published figure. The pros in our case is that we can legally drive ours now as it was plated at 3500kgs on the dealers forecourt but weighed in at 3560kgs with me and Mrs Colpot and full fuel/water. We could go up to 3700kgs without mods (or cost as the Dealer paid) so that's what we did. Like you I am 58 so C1 at 70 seems a long way off!

 

[Rosemary1]

If it was me I would ask the dealer to take it to a weighbridge to check that 500kg figure however I personally would go for the increase regardless - surprising how the “stuff” grows and good not to have to worry when fully fuelled watered etc.

Oh andto the funnsters

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[Ralph Hardwick]

Thanks guys.

We are hoping to get. Swift Champagne 612 (Brownhills Escape special edition). The quoted payload is actually 743kg.
That has an allowance of 75kg for the driver (yeah right!), 90% fuel and one gas bottle.
Taking into account my ‘enhanced’ BMI, the Missus, a full water tank and a second gas bottle will bring that down to around 500kg left.
That will almost definitely be enough, even if they have miscalculated it, but I just wanted to explore the options.

 

[pandas]

Based on your figure the price of uprating is cheaper now than it might be be later on - I would go for it. We usually have 700kg payload to cover all our stuff.

 

[Detnor]

You could ask the dealer to weigh it for you before delivery, at least you would know your starting point. I use a trading standards weighbridge near me who will let you check your weight for free, you always think you have more weight capacity than you actually find. Other than the carrying capacity, the speed limits around Europe are lower for motorhomes over 3.5 tons, but I've personally never had issue with this. Motorway tolls can vary, in France, the toll booths will pass you through the same as a vehicle under 3.5 tons, but in countries where you need various permits, this does increase the costs. Occasionally you see road weight limits but check as often they relate to goods carrying vehicles.

 

[Wagoneer]

You may think you've got an extra 150kg of payload if you upgrade to 3650kg but the permissible axle loads remain the same.

It depends a lot on the layout of the van and where the heavy load items are located with respect to the front and rear axles. A front lounge layout tends to transfer more weight towards the rear axle, whereas a rear lounge layout (kitchen located centrally) tends to balance the loads more evenly between the axles.

Ask the dealer to take the van to a weighbridge, with you in attendance, to get individual readings on each axle with a full tank of water and 2 persons on-board. This should give you a better idea on whether it's desirable to upgrade.

 

[p-c]

Hi
I think it is well worth doing. Especially as it will not cost you anything as you pay lower road tax. As you say "unless we down- plate it" is an easy option later.
Why stop at 3650. Go higher, it may be possible with no other changes. BUT may mean different tyres, suspension assists. Then you will have to choose additional costs against benefits.
It will effect access to some roads with a 3.5 ton limit.
Please do listen to the advice here about payload, not what the salesman/paperwork says. Get an up to date weighbridge print out.
Regards
p-c

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[Lenny HB]

With an MIRO of 743kg you should be OK but you can never have too much payload and it would only be a paper exersise to plate back down to 3500 if you took the option.

More important when you have decent payload is the axle weight, no good having a decent payload if you can't use due to axle overload. That van has a rear kitchen so will be heavy at the back end. Real axle load can normally be increased by fitting different tyres and air asist to the rear suspension.
Well worth getting a weighbrige ticket with both axle weights shown before parting with your cash.

 

[Ralph Hardwick]

Once again, thank you all.

We are both very aware of payload and staying within the law (and safe). During our research I have found motorhomes which, once you add any accessories and fill the fuel and water tanks and added gas bottles your remaining payload was 21kg! That was all you had to allow for the rest of the driver and any passengers

We have a weigh bridge within a mile of our home so we will make sure we stay within the limits.

Good info about the axle weights I didn’t realise that.

Are there any insurance implications?

 

[Emmit]

Thanks guys.

We are hoping to get. Swift Champagne 612 (Brownhills Escape special edition). The quoted payload is actually 743kg.
That has an allowance of 75kg for the driver (yeah right!), 90% fuel and one gas bottle.
Taking into account my ‘enhanced’ BMI, the Missus, a full water tank and a second gas bottle will bring that down to around 500kg left.
That will almost definitely be enough, even if they have miscalculated it, but I just wanted to explore the options.

You're brave including the Missus before the water and the gas.
Come to think of it, you're a big risk taker even mentioning her at all.

 

[Northernraider]

Being a solo traveller and Having had 1200kg of payload in my last van and only having 90kg spare when weighed id say definately up plate it.
It's amazing how quickly that disapears.

 

[grumps147]

If your using tolls on most you will go from class 2, to class 3. On some tolls that’s quite a cost.
Having said that, in September this year with 3 weeks in France I think only one of the automatic tolls classed us as a 3, all the rest charged us as class 2 (4500kg, single rear axle, 3.1Metres tall.)

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[Blue Knight]

Hi Ralph, A warm welcome for starters.

May I ask if you are buying a new 2019 model Swift or is it a 2018 version, end of year stock model.

The reason why I ask is that the various motorhome dealers in the UK have hundreds of unsold 2018 vans left going cheap so with a bit of haggling you could pick up the same van or a higher spec'd van for much cheaper money.

Example: There's a 2019 van on sale at Brownhills with a forecourt price of £66,000 but if you were to accept a 2018 'end of year' model from my local dealer then it would only cost you circa £53,000.

It's worth considering.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[SpeedyDux]

Over 3500 kg MTPLM has the drawback of higher fees for a vignette or Go Box in some countries.

And other restrictions such as lower speed limits, not being permitted to drive into some urban areas, and having to use HGV alternative routes.

 

[suavecarve]

I agree with most of other in uprating is gimme.
We have done it gaining 700 kgs on what was basically unusable 3.5 tonne 6 berth with a motorbike to go in the garage, but we knew that when we bought it. My choice was taking the wife or the motorbike with only a certain amount of diesel and no clothes, cutlery etc.
The one point i dont think anyone has picked up is the resale. I wouldnt be concerned about the lack of people who have the C1 by passing the test pre 97. Motorhoming appears to be an old gits sport and mostly anybody over the age of 38 has the licence. If you were to sell in 12 years time (presuming no change in the law) then your target market is the 50+ if you didnt want to downplate it for someone to upplate it at a later date.
I think that side of your concern is a red herring.

 

[suavecarve]

Over 3500 kg MTPLM has the drawback of higher fees for a vignette or Go Box in some countries.

And other restrictions such as lower speed limits, not being permitted to drive into some urban areas, and having to use HGV alternative routes.

Which is a good reason to have a copy of your original V5 and putting the uprated certificate only on one of the plates !
Personally i would never admit to doing that

 

[Ralph Hardwick]

Hi Ralph, A warm welcome for starters.

May I ask if you are buying a new 2019 model Swift or is it a 2018 version, end of year stock model.

The reason why I ask is that the various motorhome dealers in the UK have hundreds of unsold 2018 vans left going cheap so with a bit of haggling you could pick up the same van or a higher spec'd van for much cheaper money.

Example: There's a 2019 van on sale at Brownhills with a forecourt price of £66,000 but if you were to accept a 2018 'end of year' model from my local dealer then it would only cost you circa £53,000.

It's worth considering.

All the best,

Andrew

Andrew
Thank you
We’re looking at a 2019 model.
Our biggest driver is the two single bed, rear kitchen layout for around 6m length.
We are in the process of selling our house and downsizing. Once we have a buyer I shall increase the intensity of my research and will start to look at s/h or older stock models.
Our benchmark is the Autosleeper Broadway, but it is well over £60k and there is an 8-9 month wait for an auto model and absolutely zero chance of finding an auto secondhand.
I have found a 2017 Bolero 612 with just 3k miles, but it is the same price as a 2019 with only marginally better spec.

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[Ralph Hardwick]

Over 3500 kg MTPLM has the drawback of higher fees for a vignette or Go Box in some countries.

And other restrictions such as lower speed limits, not being permitted to drive into some urban areas, and having to use HGV alternative routes.

Thanks
The lower speed limits don’t bother me as I’m used to driving a commercial vehicle and I’m hoping we won’t be in that much of a hurry

I hadn’t thought about the alternative routes thing and I’ll now do some research on the vignettes etc.

 

[Ralph Hardwick]

If your using tolls on most you will go from class 2, to class 3. On some tolls that’s quite a cost.
Having said that, in September this year with 3 weeks in France I think only one of the automatic tolls classed us as a 3, all the rest charged us as class 2 (4500kg, single rear axle, 3.1Metres tall.)

Thanks for this. A quick scan would seem to show that the change from class 2 - 3 roughly doubles the french toll. Assuming they picked it up. As we will aim to bimble rather than dash around this is probably something we can live with. Good to know though, thanks.

 

[Mike n Kim]

The french tolls are based on height not weight.
We up plated from 3.5 to 3.85 and no change to tolls.
I believe the height has to be over 3.0 mt before the tolls increase
Just go for it, and also pay less road tax.

 

[mikebeaches]

The french tolls are based on height not weight.
We up plated from 3.5 to 3.85 and no change to tolls.
I believe the height has to be over 3.0 mt before the tolls increase
Just go for it, and also pay less road tax.

Agree with Mike n Kim reference French motorway tolls.

But additionally, in the fairly unlikely event that Class 3 pops up on the toll (unless you're over 3m high), just press the buzzer and shout "Camping Car", and watch the price change back to Class 2!

 

[mikebeaches]

Deleted duplicate post.

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[Cheshirecat57]

One thing to point out, sometimes this slips under the net when negotiating

The dealer will be quoting you an “on the road” price including the road fund at 3500kg
If you are up plating at new, the road tax will be £90 cheaper for him...so they he should be paying for the up-plate...one way or another

 

[Lynne Roy]

I am sure the speed limit reduces and this puts me off. Also not sure if breakdown cover costs more. I am sure someone on here will know

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I am sure the speed limit reduces and this puts me off. Also not sure if breakdown cover costs more. I am sure someone on here will know

At over 3500 kgs up to 7500 motorway limit is still 70 but dual carriageway drops to 60 and single carriageway to 50, unless a lower limit is signposted of course
Fast enough for me and the Ducato is miles better on fuel if you take it easy

 

[treetops1]

I would go to 3850 which the max depending and also pay the lower road tax .It will not make any difference at the tolls ,as they are not weighed and will still go through as a camping car class 2 .

 

[joka250]

Brea

I am sure the speed limit reduces and this puts me off. Also not sure if breakdown cover costs more. I am sure someone on here will know

Breakdown cover will vary from insurer to insurer but generally in my experience provided they know vehicle weights and dimensions should be little or no difference.

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