Poor Poppy

[Mark and Mindy]

Yesterday morning, after Mark had walked the dogs and they'd come home and then had a bit of running with squeaky toys, Poppy (our Border Terrier) jumped onto the sofa for a rest - all normal so far. I came downstairs a bit later and sorted their breakfast but Poppy didn't jump off the sofa as usual to spin a few circles in delight before eating. As I lifted her off the sofa and put her down it became obvious that she was holding one of her back legs off the ground.

We had a look at it manipulated the leg a bit, tried having it on the floor, she didn't flinch or make a noise and we had no idea what was going on. Left it for 24 hours and then I took her to the vet today, they sedated her and did an x-ray and it turns out that she's snapped the cruciate ligament on that leg!

We're now trying to work out what to do next, we could do nothing and wait for it to get better over time which the vet seems to think it will, although she'll need painkillers/anti-inflammatory for some weeks; or she could have an operation to surgically stabilise the knee which will involve the bones being cut into to realign the bones in the knee and she'll end up with various screws and pieces of metal. Then it would be 6 weeks of confinement followed by a very slow reintroduction to exercise along the lines of x days of 3 x 5 mins a day, x days of 10 mins a day and so on. Cost of the operation would be £2k - £2.5k.

Poppy is no stranger to the 6 week's in confinement and being reintroduced to exercise as she broke all the toes in a front foot when she was a young puppy of 6 months old, then she had pins put into each toe, and the whole leg was splinted and strapped.

We don't have pet insurance now although we did have the initial insurance on Poppy for the first incident and saved ourselves £1700 in the process!

Here she is with broken toes

and this is her now

resting on the sofa with her brother, Harry

and again

 

[movan]

Awww. Hi Poppy. You were very brave.

It never ceases to amaze me how when pets are in pain they don' t complain. . Hope it all sorted very soon.

 

[Janine]

Poor Poppy.

I have no idea about crucial ligaments but I know that dogs bounce back much faster than humans.

I would be inclined to keep her pain-free and quiet and let her heal naturally, if she was my dog.

Good luck!

 

[Minxy]

I agree with Janine, if there is a chance that it will heal itself over time, probably not different to the recovery time if she had the op, I'd leave it for now and just put her on the meds to keep her comfortable.

With surgery there is always a risk, no matter how careful the vets etc are, you cannot guarantee things will go as planned; the surgery suggested seems to be quite invasive/intensive so not something I'd want to do unless it was a last resort.

 

[bobandjanie]

Our Izzy did her back leg, took her to the vets, the vet said the trouble with a little dog is even if the operation was carried out, she might not use it, they manage on 3 legs, so Janie made sure she rested it and she is OK know, but still lifts it sometimes. This is mainly when she has used it a lot (Janie and Izzy walk in the mountains) or if she has been going daft, a bit of firm sand on the beach sends her skittish!
What we did was rest it. No jumping up, no jumping down, no walking, this was for weeks. Hence the frontcarrier, we were both going stir crazy! Then she had very short walks for a long time maybe 5 months from the incident?Just kept resting and looking for improvement. Basically this was the same aftercare that is required after surgery. Izzy also has a good joint supplement and good food.
The decision not to have surgery was based on prognosis and recovery times. Not on the fact we do not have her insured. That itself is based on the belief that animal care has not improved since insurance based veterinary care has become standard. The opposite is true. That is another debate. Janie

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[Mark and Mindy]

Our Izzy did her back leg, took her to the vets, the vet said the trouble with a little dog is even if the operation was carried out, she might not use it, they manage on 3 legs, so Janie made sure she rested it and she is OK know, but still lifts it sometimes. This is mainly when she has used it a lot (Janie and Izzy walk in the mountains) or if she has been going daft, a bit of firm sand on the beach sends her skittish!
What we did was rest it. No jumping up, no jumping down, no walking, this was for weeks. Hence the frontcarrier, we were both going stir crazy! Then she had very short walks for a long time maybe 5 months from the incident?Just kept resting and looking for improvement. Basically this was the same aftercare that is required after surgery. Izzy also has a good joint supplement and good food.
The decision not to have surgery was based on prognosis and recovery times. Not on the fact we do not have her insured. That itself is based on the belief that animal care has not improved since insurance based veterinary care has become standard. The opposite is true. That is another debate. Janie
View attachment 335083

She's soooo cute, looks like a cross between a koala bear and teddy bear!

How old was Izzy when she did it?

Poppy is 6 and is weighing in at 11.8kg, she's a bigger border terrier than the breed standard but a bit overweight, or as the vet says "at the top end of just about ok".

We're going to leave it for 2 weeks, we have an anti inflammatory medicine for her to take once a day, and even if we went the operation route we'd have to wait several weeks as the orthopaedic surgeon the practice uses is booked up for a long time.

I'm just not keen on an operation, as others have said its very invasive and there's no guarantee that it will be 100% good again.

 

[TheBig1]

having cared for dogs with cruciate ligament injuries, the lighter the dog the quicker they heal. regardless of operation or not, they all limp or favour that leg when tired
having done a similar injury to my knee years ago, i can say it's bloody painful. so poor Poppy indeed, hope it doesn't hurt too bad

 

[bobandjanie]

She's soooo cute, looks like a cross between a koala bear and teddy bear!

How old was Izzy when she did it?

Poppy is 6 and is weighing in at 11.8kg, she's a bigger border terrier than the breed standard but a bit overweight, or as the vet says "at the top end of just about ok".

We're going to leave it for 2 weeks, we have an anti inflammatory medicine for her to take once a day, and even if we went the operation route we'd have to wait several weeks as the orthopaedic surgeon the practice uses is booked up for a long time.

I'm just not keen on an operation, as others have said its very invasive and there's no guarantee that it will be 100% good again.

Hi there, Izzy weighs 7kg and was 8 years and 4 months when she did it. She had the painkilling anti inflammatory tablets for two weeks. When we went back to the vet at day 12 I think it was and she manipulated it making her yelp (and let's face it undoing some mending) that swung it in favour of the 'let us wait and see' method.
I did not want her on the painkillers for long either because they can upset them and also dulling pain makes them more likely to use the leg.
We were in the camper for most of her recovery so she was harnessed at all times and clipped to the seat, or on a very short lead outside, constant supervision!
Good luck with Poppy x Janie

 

[DavidG58]

Our Bernese had both done, but only due to weighing 50kg

Our vet reckoned that even half her weight might self heal, I would leave well alone

Hope she gets over it quickly, when Lola’s went she literally couldn’t walk more than a few yd’s, then just laid down

We were also told that once one went the other almost certainly will soon after as all the strain goes on the other leg

 

[Offagaingr8]

Our dog Barnie, as Just had a cruciate op on his back leg 10 weeks ago, bone cut and a plate fitted,had to be kept on lead and no jumping or steps, was hard but we have got through it and he is getting better by the day, now can go off lead for a short time. He thinks he is better now! still need to keep him down a bit but definitely over the worst and well worth the trauma, he is 8 years old and back to himself. Cost £3800 but worth it.

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[Carolyn and Kev]

Poppy is a young dog to have her Cruciate ligament fail her. Realistically if the dog was of an older age your vet would allow her to heal with "Old age" as she would naturally be slower then. Poppy is quite young so slowing her down may prove a problem for her. We had our first dog "Lucky" who had her ligament fail at 14 years of age. She coped well until 17 years of age when we lost her due to "old age" bless her.
It is a difficult one for you both . Hopefully you can keep her calm and allow her to heal as best as is possible for her.

Kev

 

[Odd-no-more]

Good luck for a successful outcome

 

[irnbru]

Hope she's not in too much pain. Sending her cuddles.

 

[Hollyberry]

Holly only has one working back leg. I don’t know for certain what happened but weighing up that she was scared of men, terrified of anything stick shaped and screamed if anyone got hold of her collar, I assume she’d been beaten and left with a broken leg. This healed but not properly as it would have done if set, the bones have overlapped somewhat and fused. The vet has since found that her pelvis and coccyx were also fractured at the same time. She’s done well up to now ( She’s between 13 1/2 and 14 years old now) but lately has had some problems with sciatica ( might not be related at all to earlier damage) Check with your vet if leaving her to heal naturally runs a risk of future problems.
If your vet thinks Poppy will heal lastingly I’d be inclined to go with that and look at supplements to help her heal. Cass and Holly both have glucosamine and chondroitin, Alfalfa and Selenium, in their morning food and Co-Q10 in the evening meal. Cass had clicky hips when young, her back legs would pop out of her hip joints occasionally. Stopped within a couple of months of starting the G&C, never happened again ( she’ll be 14 in October)
https://orthodog.com/index.cfm/blog/dog-acl-tear-no-surgery/

And from the expert himself https://www.fitzpatrickreferrals.co.uk/orthopaedic/cranial-cruciate-ligament-injury/

 

[RidersofRohan]

On Sunday Harvey our Dalmatian leap onto the settee next to me, as he does, but let out a scream. Now Dalmatian’s are drama queens but he did seem injured. Next morning we took him to the vets and in time honoured tradition three of us wrestled with him while the vet checked his hips and legs. It could be a crucial in his knee.
Take these anti inflammatory drugs and come back in a week and we’ll assess what to do next.
After 24 hours of moping about he suddenly declared himself fit and immediately returned to hurtling about like a lunatic. That was one of the most dramatic transformations ever.
I do hope Poppy can pull off the same recovery.

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[Mark and Mindy]

On Sunday Harvey our Dalmatian leap onto the settee next to me, as he does, but let out a scream. Now Dalmatian’s are drama queens but he did seem injured. Next morning we took him to the vets and in time honoured tradition three of us wrestled with him while the vet checked his hips and legs. It could be a crucial in his knee.
Take these anti inflammatory drugs and come back in a week and we’ll assess what to do next.
After 24 hours of moping about he suddenly declared himself fit and immediately returned to hurtling about like a lunatic. That was one of the most dramatic transformations ever.
I do hope Poppy can pull off the same recovery.

I wish that would be the case for her, but she's had an xray and it was confirmed that the cruciate has snapped, plus its 48 hours later and she's still on 3 legs.

 

[SteveJ]

If her cruciate has definitely snapped then it won't get better on its own. Our Border Terrier Stanley tore his when he was about 3, our vet took one look at it and sent us straight to their main branch, which had their hospital unit, for x-ray and to see their main canine orthopaedic vet for confirmation. We had been going to this particular vet for a good 15 years and fully trusted their judgement and advice. One set of x-rays later and Stanley was on the operating table within 6 hours. Biggest problem is keeping a young, fairly crazy, Border Terrier quiet for 6 to 8 weeks, especially when our equally mad Jack Russell always wanted to play. 8 years later he hasn't shown any signs of favouring that leg, even when he is obviously knackered after a full day walking across the Fens.

 

[Mrsambulancekidd]

The poor wee soul, hope she heals fast & well.....before you know it she will be spinning again.

 

[Cat53]

Get better quickly Poppy.

 

[movan]

Oh Oppy. Hoped you would be looking better now. Big hug little un..

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[Val 3 dogs]

I would be inclined to go along with Janine, I would also be consulting a homeopathic vet re painkillers- they do work, are readily available and cause a lot less intestinal damage.
Time and rest are great healers and as said dogs manage extremely well on tbree legs if necssary, with the addition of a little weight loss regime.
Whatever you choose all the best to all of you.?

 

[Mark and Mindy]

Poppy had the operation last year and she is now fully recovered on that leg, however she's now limping on the left back and its very likely that its the cruciate again. I've been to the vet with her today and she's had sedation and an x-ray. It isn't a full snap like last time but there's discomfort there as she is hopping and only dabbing the foot down, so it seems likely that its a partial tear. We'll hear from the vet in a few days' time, but its highly likely that we'll go down the operation route again as we know that it does work.

At least we're still on lockdown so have no holidays going on, although had we not been on lockdown life would have become very tricky as we were going to be on the ferry to Spain a week tomorrow and the dogs were booked into kennels.