Pearl Harbour New evidence .. tv Saturday Ch 4 (1 Viewer)

[movan]

Just seen that this is coming on tv this Saturday .... I think it may be interesting.

It didn't give much away, but from previous conversations I have had I am suspecting it may be about whether Churchill actually knew about the bombing beforehand ... but it obviously served Britain well for it to go ahead...

Any comments?

 

[Snowbird]

Any revelations like this can only damage Anglo American relations. Some things are best left where they belong, in the past.

 

[pappajohn]

Speculation and heresay.
There will always be those with some sort of conspiracy theory.
Is Elvis dead.....
Did we land on the moon......

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wildbill]

Maybe churchal did know but he's a long time dead
Bill

 

[olley]

An alternative view:

As Professor Warren Kimball wrote: "It seems to me that to brand Churchill and/or Roosevelt as conspirators requires that they be seen as evil geniuses. But for them to allow the U.S. Fleet to be clobbered means they were stupid. That doesn't compute."

Allow me to vent for a moment. The reason why this kind of nonsense passes for history is that standards for evidence have virtually disappeared. Not all evidence is equal and there is an obligation to weigh evidence against some reasonable standard. The standard is not exactly rocket science; remnant evidence is better than tradition-creating evidence; corroborated testimony is better than uncorroborated testimony; forensic evidence is better than hearsay.

Our inability to be skeptical, to think critically, to ask questions, to compare and contrast, leads to the perpetuation of one urban legend after another, be it Churchill and Coventry, Churchill and the Lusitania, Churchill (or Roosevelt) and Pearl Harbor, etc., etc., etc. Hard thinking, critical analysis, and skepticism are the only ways to challenge this rubbish. I sometimes despair. Vent off.

From here: Link Removed

 

[Snowbird]

Maybe churchal did know but he's a long time dead
Bill

Which means he cannot tell ya .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

Which means he cannot tell ya .

And if it were true I doubt he would....

 

[Snowbird]

And if it were true I doubt he would....

If you were in his shoes, would you .

 

[Geo]

It was a totally unprovoked attack I tink the Americans should be ashamed firing at the Japanese
It is quite clear the Japanese Air Force were only doing a display
and the Imperial Fleet were out fishing, pure coincidence it was on the same day granted

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Kevan]

Speculation and heresay.
There will always be those with some sort of conspiracy theory.
Is Elvis dead.....
Did we land on the moon......

WHO'S WE

 

[rangi]

Just finished a book by Antony Beevor "Ardennes 1944" in which he suggests the reason why the American General Bradley was sidelined and Monty given control of 2 American Army Corps, was to safeguard "Ultra" (information received by cracking Enigma the German code machine)
It was known that Bradleys lines of communication had been compromised, so they could not pass on any "Ultra" info to him or his HQ in Luxemburg for fear of the Germans realising their codes had been cracked.

 

[movan]

Conspiracy theories or not I must admit to being fascinated by them ... it states in the advert 'new evidence'. As Snowbird's post I wondered re the Anglo American friendship. Just when Trump has decided on who should hold what position in our Government.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Geo]

I read Trump was molested by Goring in Adolfs office
In front of the German Football team

 

[Sandancers]

I read somewhere that Blechley Park had cracked the Jap Naval codes and the UK had warned the USA an attack was coming, but the USA channels of command ignored / lost / did not pass on / the info to Pearl Harbour.

 

[MillieMoocher]

I read somewhere that Blechley Park had cracked the Jap Naval codes and the UK had warned the USA an attack was coming, but the USA channels of command ignored / lost / did not pass on / the info to Pearl Harbour.

I was lucky enough to visit Bletchley Park in 2000 and this is very much the impression I came away with after the tour.

As I understood things from the visit, Churchill needed the Americans to join in on our side, and they were still sitting on the fence. He knew that the attack would bring American in on the side of the Allies, and to disclose the location of the Japanese fleet to the USA would clearly show them that we'd cracked the codes. So from a milatry strategic stance, he made a great call - but one he'd have to live with for the rest of his life.

Conspiracy theory - maybe, but seems plausible to the point of credibility to me (no expert though!)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Chris]

I read somewhere that Blechley Park had cracked the Jap Naval codes and the UK had warned the USA an attack was coming, but the USA channels of command ignored / lost / did not pass on / the info to Pearl Harbour.

That sounds extremely plausible.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I was lucky enough to visit Bletchley Park in 2000 and this is very much the impression I came away with after the tour.

As I understood things from the visit, Churchill needed the Americans to join in on our side, and they were still sitting on the fence. He knew that the attack would bring American in on the side of the Allies, and to disclose the location of the Japanese fleet to the USA would clearly show them that we'd cracked the codes. So from a milatry strategic stance, he made a great call - but one he'd have to live with for the rest of his life.

Conspiracy theory - maybe, but seems plausible to the point of credibility to me (no expert though!)

That sounds extremely plausible.

Not a lot different to the horrendous bombing of Coventry

 

[Silver-Fox]

I am a great one for the conspiracy theory, be that good or bad.

I am defiantly in the camp of there are a few people in this world that are so powerful and makes the decisions we have to live with. These arnt politicians I'm talking about either.

I truly believe "sacrifices" are made by those in charge to allow the long term plan to work.
This would include the Twin Towers in the USA.

Thing is none of us will ever know, hence theories

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tootles]

I read somewhere that Blechley Park had cracked the Jap Naval codes and the UK had warned the USA an attack was coming, but the USA channels of command ignored / lost / did not pass on / the info to Pearl Harbour.

There has always been a lot of talk about just what or what we did not know about Japanese plans. If Churchill knew about Pearl Harbour, then it stands to reason that he would also have known about the Japanese attack on our forces in Malaya, which clearly he did not.
Unlike German codes, Japanese codes were 'book' codes, and even though they did build an encryption code machine, (Coral), it was very little used, if at all. Their main code, diplomatic (Purple). used a typewriter, and was broken before WW2 in The Pacific. They also had a 'dockyard' code, easily broken, and again known about well before WW2. The 'Red Book' code, and code JN 25, gave the Allies the most problems, but even JN 25 was pretty much broken by 1942. The Japanese had quite a few other 'J' codes as well, most pretty nondescript.
You have to consider the 1940 mindset in all this. The military on both sides of The Atlantic had decided that the Japanese Army and Navy were no match for Western forces, many top generals seeing them as 'silly little yellow men, with no concept of fighting ability'.
The term, (for instance), 'Fortress Singapore', show this up in full. The Japs over ran it, Hong Kong, and up to the Burmese border, in weeks.
Should be an interesting watch though. Doubtless over played for effect. We shall see.

 

[olley]

I worked with an ex Japanese pow many years ago, he was with the Royal Norfolks and said we were told they were all short sighted little men, no problem for the great british army. He got of the boat at Singapore and almost walked straight into captivity.

 

[Chris]

My grandfather died a Japanese POW​

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[movan]

My grandfather died a Japanese POW​

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
If EVERYBODY knows these things in advance.The question you have to ask yourselves,is WHO knew about ISIS looting all the equipment and let them carry on ?........ This is more relevent today
Tea Bag

 

[Snowbird]

Are you suggesting the Americans knew Pearl Harbour was going to be attacked, but chose to ignore the fact ?.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DBK]

The Americans were given several warnings the Japanese were about to attack but their "intelligence" services chose to ignore these signals. One warning came from the US born wife of the Japanese ambassador to the US.
The warnings were ignored because they failed to fit the script which had decided the threat was from Europe.
Oops....

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Are you suggesting the Americans knew Pearl Harbour was going to be attacked, but chose to ignore the fact ?.

It's well documented that they had intelligence warning that an attack was imminent but chose not to act on it.

 

[wizzer59]

Well I recone Selby has put something in Ronnie's tea

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[EX51SSS]

Speculation and heresay.
There will always be those with some sort of conspiracy theory.
Is Elvis dead.....
Did we land on the moon......

Did Trump win?