New motor home tax

[sparky]

Hi just been reading the government are digging there heals in over the 700 % rise in road tax for new motorhome and are classing them as luxury cars. If they are cars then all the height barriers need to be taken down on car parks and all the weight bans scrapped for them to park in car parks..?

 

[Deneb]

No.

Motorhome Vehicle Excise Duty

BBC Look North tonight had a feature on the 700% increase in VED for motorhomes and its potential impact on converters and tourism. Anyone see it?

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Its not a “motor home tax”
it is a tax that has been their for a few tears that motorhomes have managed to AVOID almost by accident via a loop hole that has now been closed

expensive “vans” such as minibuses have to pay it

Just saying,

 

[MisterB]

great way to increase unemployment ....


since when did we start the race to the bottom ? instead of taking the position, 'minibuses have to pay it, so why not everyone else' shouldnt the position be to challenge why minibuses have to pay?

remember when gender equality kicked in, instead of lowering the male age of retirement, the womens age of retirement was increased ....

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Challenge away
i wasnt trying to start an argument just point out the the “New tax” is not a “new” tax

I wasnt “taking a position” but clearly inadvertently left the door open just wide enough for you to do so

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[MisterB]

i was taking a position as i dont particularly like splinters in my arse ...... (and i wasnt having a pop at you, though clearly a post that does nothing but drop grenades into the mix, whilst standing back and admiring the view may, in the words of michael caine, 'blow the bloody doors off')

 

[Simon Select]

Its old news now. It was launched on the 1st September 2019.
Motorhome's are no longer classified as commercial vehicles and are now taxed the same as cars are.
It's on the emissions now.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Well if your thought that post #3 was “ dropping a grenade” ..........

 

[MisterB]

just saying .....

 

[Deneb]

great way to increase unemployment ....


since when did we start the race to the bottom ? instead of taking the position, 'minibuses have to pay it, so why not everyone else' shouldnt the position be to challenge why minibuses have to pay?

remember when gender equality kicked in, instead of lowering the male age of retirement, the womens age of retirement was increased ....

Perhaps we should be asking why the NCC and other interested leisure industry parties such as MH manufacturers appear to have buried their collective heads in the sand over the proposals for over 3 years and then suddenly started to protest after the fact in such a way that it is obvious they have no understanding of the legal position in respect of the vehicles that they are building or promoting.

The UK government notified proposals for WLTP taxation in 2017, published detailed proposals in late 2018 and implemented an industry consultation. Not a single interested party within the leisure vehicle industry responded, including the NCC; whereas car manufacturers, retailers and the rental and leasing industry were all involved in representations.

Incompetence, horse, door and bolt all come to mind unfortunately. And they are still blathering on about motorhomes now being treated as cars instead of goods vehicles, which shows they have a complete misunderstanding of and have still failed to grasp the legal definition of the vehicles they have been building and promoting for years.

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[Yorick]

great way to increase unemployment ....

How does that work?

 

[Captain Pants]

There was a ‘challenge’ in the form of an online petition to Government to stop the increases. It received about 15,000 signatures and was pulled early as a consequence of the General Election. It needed 100,000 signatures to force a debate in Parliament. The Government response was as outlined by others here which is about including motorhomes CO2 emissions in VED which the previous system did not. It’s a bumhole, but one we’ll have to live with I fear. The Government have the environmental high ground and policy consistency on their side.

 

[Deneb]

There was a ‘challenge’ in the form of an online petition to Government to stop the increases. It received about 15,000 signatures and was pulled early as a consequence of the General Election. It needed 100,000 signatures to force a debate in Parliament. The Government response was as outlined by others here which is about including motorhomes CO2 emissions in VED which the previous system did not. It’s a bumhole, but one we’ll have to live with I fear.

As I say, too late. industry consultation was invited in 2018 and closed in February last year. The government had already confirmed the position long before the petition was initiated. But the wording of the petition showed that the person(s) who conceived it had failed to properly understand the situation as well.

There isn't and never has been a deliberate increase in motorhome tax, just a change in unrelated legislation that applies to all "motor cars" (using the correct legal definition) which closed a loophole that had previously forced motorhomes and other multi-stage constructed "motor cars" into VED bands that were never intended to be applied to them. If the loophole had never existed, they would have been in the current bands all along (since 2001) and been subject to the same tax increases applied to all other "motor cars" in those bands since 2017.

 

[Yorick]

Oops.

 

[peterc10]

I suspect that this is a dangerous question to ask, given that I will likely get conflicting answers, but here goes.

Can anybody confirm with certainty whether or not this increase applies to motorhomes over 3.5t please?

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[Yorick]

I suspect that this is a dangerous question to ask, given that I will likely get conflicting answers, but here goes.

Can anybody confirm with certainty whether r not this increase applies to motorhomes over 3.5t please?

I've seen many folk lamenting the tax, but never seen any facts and figures.

 

[Captain Pants]

I suspect that this is a dangerous question to ask, given that I will likely get conflicting answers, but here goes.

Can anybody confirm with certainty whether r not this increase applies to motorhomes over 3.5t please?

Yes, if a Euro 6d/2 specification engine is installed.

 

[gus-lopez]

How does that work?

Swift have already laid off employee's & shut a factory.

As an afterthought, you may have to pay a bit extra tax initially, but that will be reflected when you sell it and will be worth a bit more

You are paying a lot extra tax, & for 5 years + no one in his right mind will pay extra for a vehicle that offers no benefits whatsoever except to the treasury. It si bad enough having all this old tat affixed to them to clean up the environment that is guaranteed to play up with the slow plodding that nost motorhomes drive at or left parked for some months & then the oil needs changing before you even go anywhere.

 

[Captain Pants]

Oops.

Or maybe it’ll protect used van values as they’ll be several hundred £ cheaper to run each year?

 

[Ernesto]

With the average new motorhome costing over £50k, it cannot be right to claim the new duty rates are the cause of redundancies. The market has been booming recently, manufacturers will have scaled up and some declines are inevitable - markets don't go up for ever.

Governments can't increase duty rates retrospectively on old vehicles so they're targeting new, fossil fuelled vehicles now to encourage manufacturers to prioritise cleaner technologies.

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[Yorick]

Swift have already laid off employee's & shut a factory.

Probably coincidence. You don't do that just in case something might happen.

 

[nicholsong]

If you buy a MH which you like but is only available with a 6d engine, can you have the engine downgraded by the dealer so that it does not attract the higher VED?

 

[Deneb]

You are paying a lot extra tax, & for 5 years + no one in his right mind will pay extra for a vehicle that offers no benefits whatsoever except to the treasury. It si bad enough having all this old tat affixed to them to clean up the environment that is guaranteed to play up with the slow plodding that nost motorhomes drive at or left parked for some months & then the oil needs changing before you even go anywhere.

Plenty of people are paying the same additional tax to put themselves in "prestigious" cars, as far as I can see.

 

[Deneb]

If you buy a MH which you like but is only available with a 6d engine, can you have the engine downgraded by the dealer so that it does not attract the higher VED?

No because new engines have to conform to the latest requirements. If the dealer has older stock of the same model with the old engine, then yes. But the derogation to allow them to register vehicles with older engines is limited.

 

[Deneb]

Probably coincidence. You don't do that just in case something might happen.

When they started the consultation process last year, they blamed falling touring caravan sales. The change of tax band for motorhomes might be having an additional effect, but as it's not due to be imposed on newly registered vehicles until April 2020, who knows?

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[nicholsong]

No because new engines have to conform to the latest requirements. If the dealer has older stock of the same model with the old engine, then yes. But the derogation to allow them to register vehicles with older engines is limited.

But who is leally obliged to conform? Just the manufacturer and is that only the base vehicle manufacturer or also the converter?

Then is the Dealer also liable to conform with the requirement?

At what point in time and geography does the vehicle have to conform? Date it leaves the factory, date it enters UK?

What happens with base vehicles that have sat around for a year a) at a continental converter, b) at a UK converter?

I bet that, even if I read the regulations, they would not answer all those questions.

 

[Deneb]

But who is leally obliged to conform? Just the manufacturer and is that only the base vehicle manufacturer or also the converter?

Then is the Dealer also liable to conform with the requirement?

At what point in time and geography does the vehicle have to conform? Date it leaves the factory, date it enters UK?

What happens with base vehicles that have sat around for a year a) at a continental converter, b) at a UK converter?

I bet that, even if I read the regulations, they would not answer all those questions.

The base vehicle manufacturer has been required to conform for any passenger or light commercial vehicle newly type approved for the European market since September 2017. All passenger and light commercial vehicles first registered from September 2019 have to conform unless they are derogated old stock. Non-conforming old stock that has not yet been registered is allowed to be registered for a limited time if included in the derogation, otherwise it will have to be broken up or disposed of outside of the EU.

As you are posting on an internet forum, I'm sure that if you want to know more you have access to a search engine

 

[DavidG58]

This surely is simple, don’t agree don’t buy ?

at least this tax isn’t being applied retrospectively as it did with cars, my car back in 2007 jumped to £600 / year from £200 with increase to £800 due 2 years later, made it virtually impossible to sell and only applied 2 years after I bought it ?

as part of a minimum £50K spend and mostly a lot more the actual difference in price is really not that significant apart from to forum chats maybe

my 10 year old Hymer will do me nicely for a while longer ?

 

[gus-lopez]

Plenty of people are paying the same additional tax to put themselves in "prestigious" cars, as far as I can see.

Only stupid onesor ones with too much money. Any with sense ensure that it is put through the books so they pay nothing & even claim the vat back. & yes there are plenty of legal ways to reclaim vat on cars.

but as it's not due to be imposed on newly registered vehicles until April 2020, who knows?

Yes that is correct but I also thought that people had been charged it already ?

 

[peterc10]

Any with sense ensure that it is put through the books so they pay nothing & even claim the vat back. & yes there are plenty of legal ways to reclaim vat on cars.

I have been self employed for well over 20 years in the UK and, until very recently, I was also VAT registered. I would be very interested to find out about these "plenty of legal ways to reclaim VAT on cars".

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