NCC Verified Battery Scheme Latest

[PhilandMena]

Members who have been following the debacle about this scheme may be interested in the contents of the this link.
http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php

 

[Lenny HB]

Had to give you a funny, reading that I've not had such a good laugh for ages.

Does this me you are going to stop promoting the NCC battery scheme Phil?

 

[PhilandMena]

Had to give you a funny, reading that I've not had such a good laugh for ages.

Does this me you are going to stop promoting the NCC battery scheme Phil?

Definitely, Obi Wan. I accept defeat with good graces.

 

[Blue Knight]

It must be good reliable info if the NCC has published it. (aka CHIMPS after Mel's post @Minxy Girl).

 

[Stealaway]

That's just given me the idea to count up the number cycles my batteries have done. I bought a new pair of Numax 110A batteries in September 2015. Having counted up the nights we have spent out in the van up till today it's 291!
Unbelievable, we do seem to be getting some use out this van!
So we have had 291 cycles from these batteries already, although I do make sure to turn off the inverter and TV when the voltage drops to 12.25 on the van gauge. That's usually about midnight and after watching 3 hours of TV every evening.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Just smiffy]

Ok, I have two banner AGM’s and as @Lenny HB knows I expect to change them eventually when they go but reading that I wasn’t expecting my charger to be compromised as well..? So do I change the batteries sooner or later..?

 

[Gaston aires]

My goodness, that takes some reading and understanding. Personally I have only ever used the original manufacturer fitted battery and they seem to last ages. Exide gel on the Hymers, AGM on the Adria. Never had any problems or run out of "puff" even when using for 4 or more days without EHU.
I think the secret is to have a solar power unit fitted. We have had one or two on every van.
Phil

 

[Jim]

I wrote to the NCC on the 16th asking for clarification of this scheme but my email is as yet unanswered. I’ll let you know what they say if they ever get back to me.

 

[maxi77]

I must admit that I found the scheme very dubious when it was first announced. The grading system is pretty meaningless and is I fear of little help to the casual user even id it was done properly. Proper labelling with key parameters listed, tested according to an independently set standard method will make customer comparison much easier and allow proper checks to be made showing the seller has or has not deceived the customer

 

[funflair]

Well what a read, I am glad that the van had a pair G80/ES900 Gel's on when we bought it and that I had the sense to add two more after a few years, so that's the original two at 8 years or more and around 1000 nights and the youngsters at only 3 years old and around 500 nights, I must say that the young and old get on very well together and very rarely demand hook up much preferring a solar charge via a Votronic controller.

Just to add that I have never taken the slightest bit of notice of this scheme even though my mate Phil @PhilandMena mentioned it a couple of times

Martin

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[PhilandMena]

That's just given me the idea to count up the number cycles my batteries have done. I bought a new pair of Numax 110A batteries in September 2015. Having counted up the nights we have spent out in the van up till today it's 291!
Unbelievable, we do seem to be getting some use out this van!
So we have had 291 cycles from these batteries already, although I do make sure to turn off the inverter and TV when the voltage drops to 12.25 on the van gauge. That's usually about midnight and after watching 3 hours of TV every evening.

Almost impossible to count the number of cycles your batteries have been subjected to IMO as you will not know what the D.O.D is for each night. Also, if you have a Solar Panel fitted your D.O.D will be reduced significantly resulting in many more cycles from the batteries.

 

[PhilandMena]

Ok, I have two banner AGM’s and as @Lenny HB knows I expect to change them eventually when they go but reading that I wasn’t expecting my charger to be compromised as well..? So do I change the batteries sooner or later..?

I would advise you change your batteries when they are goosed or nearly goosed. Also, this is one persons view (The above link) of how the NCC operate, with no collaboration from any other source. Whilst I suspect he has many valid points, I am aware he has had issues with the NCC for a number of years.

 

[tonyidle]

Organisations such as the NCC are Trade Associations and exist to promote the interests of their members. Why would anyone expect unbiased consumer advice from them?

 

[Stealaway]

Almost impossible to count the number of cycles your batteries have been subjected to IMO as you will not know what the D.O.D is for each night. Also, if you have a Solar Panel fitted your D.O.D will be reduced significantly resulting in many more cycles from the batteries.

Depth Of Discharge?
I do have 250w off solar panels which almost always tops up both sets of batteries to maximum each day. Draining them down to 12.25 is what I judge to be a safe long term regime. I'm happy it seems to be working . 3 hours TV / HD and sound bar is all we want from them.

 

[Lenny HB]

Ok, I have two banner AGM’s and as @Lenny HB knows I expect to change them eventually when they go but reading that I wasn’t expecting my charger to be compromised as well..? So do I change the batteries sooner or later..?

They would only harm your charger if they catastrophic failed.
I would run a controlled test on each battery and if they way down on expected capacity change them.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[PhilandMena]

Depth Of Discharge?
I do have 250w off solar panels which almost always tops up both sets of batteries to maximum each day. Draining them down to 12.25 is what I judge to be a safe long term regime. I'm happy it seems to be working . 3 hours TV / HD and sound bar is all we want from them.

Something not quite right here, I'm thinking. If you have 250 W of S.P. and 220 AH leisure battery bank and at night are watching 3 hours of TV why are your batteries going down as low as 12.25 V. This means your batteries have discharged by as much as 40%. That's approximately 88 Amps, or 29 Amps an hour. That's some TV, or maybe your batteries are loosing their capacity. Now 2.1/2 years old so possibly on their way out.

 

[Stealaway]

Nothing seems to have changed with capacity, maybe a little. We do have a 240v 24" TV and a 60W sound bar. Both fed through a 1000W inverter. It all works well enough and I'm not disappointed with the batteries life, long may it continue

 

[Basildog]

Nothing seems to have changed with capacity, maybe a little. We do have a 240v 24" TV and a 60W sound bar. Both fed through a 1000W inverter. It all works well enough and I'm not disappointed with the batteries life, long may it continue

Hammering them like that they are probably well on their way out now , we find our leisure batteries no matter how much they cost or how we have looked after them are read for replacement by 3 years old.

 

[PhilandMena]

Nothing seems to have changed with capacity, maybe a little. We do have a 240v 24" TV and a 60W sound bar. Both fed through a 1000W inverter. It all works well enough and I'm not disappointed with the batteries life, long may it continue

That may well explain why your batteries are being discharged 40% over 3 hrs use. The Avtex TV's are 12/240 V and use about 3-4 Amps an hour. How are you measuring your capacity ? You have done extremely well with these batteries, 291 discharges to 40% is brilliant. I have looked at the Numex website and unable to find a 110 AH leisure battery so unable to see how many cycles they are specified at.

 

[Minxy]

I have looked at the Numex website and unable to find a 110 AH leisure battery so unable to see how many cycles they are specified at.

I've looked at a few other sizes and it seems to me that the maximum number of cycles for some is 500, but for others its as low as 350 ... without knowing the actual model number it's difficult to know which it is, regardless constantly discharging to 12.25 will IMV have shortened their life.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

Solved which batteries they are! I've just searched for a past thread and fortunately @Stealaway mentioned his on the below thread, ... they are 120ah, not 110ah!

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/go-outdoors-leisure-battery.129566/#post-1839704​

This is the link he gave to them:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/numax/cxv35mf/
​

They are 500 cycle ones.

 

[RogerThat]

Never mind all this tech spec nonsense, does a NCC verified battery come with a 3D gel badge or not??

Priorities. Right?

 

[autorouter]

That's approximately 88 Amps, or 29 Amps an hour.

That's approximately 88 amp-hours, or 29 amp-hours per hour, ie 29 amps.

<rant>If I wrote to a boating forum about boat speeds, and started talking about distances in knots, and speeds of knots per hour, I would expect to be either laughed out of court or condescendingly corrected. This is a motorhome forum, and the thread is specifically about battery capacity. Is it too much to ask that you measure battery capacity in the correct units? Battery capacity is measured in ampere-hours (Ah). Not amps, or the meaningless 'amps per hour'</rant>

watching 3 hours of TV why are your batteries going down as low as 12.25 V. This means your batteries have discharged by as much as 40%.

The 12.25v level is not the 'open circuit voltage after a resting period', it's the instantaneous voltage while drawing 29 amps. This does not indicate the depth of discharge in any way accurately.

 

[Minxy]

That's approximately 88 amp-hours, or 29 amp-hours per hour, ie 29 amps.

<rant>If I wrote to a boating forum about boat speeds, and started talking about distances in knots, and speeds of knots per hour, I would expect to be either laughed out of court or condescendingly corrected. This is a motorhome forum, and the thread is specifically about battery capacity. Is it too much to ask that you measure battery capacity in the correct units? Battery capacity is measured in ampere-hours (Ah). Not amps, or the meaningless 'amps per hour'</rant>

... Calm down dear ... you sound like you're bouncing about like the Energiser Bunny!

 

[Blue Knight]

Never mind all this tech spec nonsense, does a NCC verified battery come with a 3D gel badge or not??

Priorities. Right?

fantastic

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Never mind all this tech spec nonsense, does a NCC verified battery come with a 3D gel badge or not??

Priorities. Right?

I want one........

 

[Blue Knight]

I wonder what will happen in terms of legal liability if it is found or inferred that many thousands of people have purchased NCC Approved batteries based on NCC ficticious tests.

That doesn't sound good to me.

 

[Basildog]

I wonder what will happen in terms of legal liability if it is found or inferred that many thousands of people have purchased NCC Approved batteries based on NCC ficticious tests.

That doesn't sound good to me.

Absolutely nothing
It's hardly a national scandal that yet another so called trustworthy trade body are a bunch of money grabbing liars .

 

[PhilandMena]

That's approximately 88 amp-hours, or 29 amp-hours per hour, ie 29 amps.

<rant>If I wrote to a boating forum about boat speeds, and started talking about distances in knots, and speeds of knots per hour, I would expect to be either laughed out of court or condescendingly corrected. This is a motorhome forum, and the thread is specifically about battery capacity. Is it too much to ask that you measure battery capacity in the correct units? Battery capacity is measured in ampere-hours (Ah). Not amps, or the meaningless 'amps per hour'</rant>


The 12.25v level is not the 'open circuit voltage after a resting period', it's the instantaneous voltage while drawing 29 amps. This does not indicate the depth of discharge in any way accurately.

 

[PhilandMena]

I've looked at a few other sizes and it seems to me that the maximum number of cycles for some is 500, but for others its as low as 350 ... without knowing the actual model number it's difficult to know which it is, regardless constantly discharging to 12.25 will IMV have shortened their life.

I agree. Five hundred cycles at 50% D.O.D. is a phenomenal specification for a lead acid (L.A.) battery. If its correct it will make all other L.A. batteries redundant. (Sort of justifies a&a Caravans statement about the leisure battery industry). You can call me Thomas on this one though ! I have major doubts about this battery but hopefully @Stealaway will keep us informed about his battery performance, it will be interesting to see how many more nights he gets running them down to 12.25 V.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}