Morelo Palace 2019 (1 Viewer)

[OurMoreloLife]

Hi Stewart and thanks for such a comprehensive reply.

Our problem is exactly the same as you have described.

I'm getting my shoes on now to go to check it! E&P has raised mine a few times so that the red "unstable" light has come on so it may have been then that it happened. I'll get back to you with the result of my investigations.

 

[OurMoreloLife]

Hi,

I have checked the switches; there's one on each side and much more substantial than I thought they would be. They both seem to be fine; both at the same attitude/ position (but could both be wrong position too) so maybe this is not the problem for us. The plot thickens!

It could be as you have described, the compressor not being quick enough to maintain level but I would ask why are we losing the level when we come to a standstill / stop?

 

[OurMoreloLife]

Update on the VB Air issue. It has happened loads of times again today. So annoying!
I called VB in the UK and they said that so long as there are no fault lights or sounds from the remote (this sound isn't one) it is safe to drive however, as it's an OEM installation, to have it repaired I will have to take it to a Morelo approved dealer. Why is that?

I'm sure that VB have a mobile service provision so why the heck should I have to drive it to Yorkshire and take 3 or 4 days holiday from work or worse still, drive it to Germany to have a fault fixed. What if the fault was too bad to drive it? What then? Surely in any case, Morelo should get VB mobile service to come to me, no?

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[Rapphil]

Or at least to go to a VB approved dealer!

 

[sallylillian]

Unfortunately Peter, Good Luck with your last thought! Have you spoken to Mick at SAP he fits both EP and VB and his brain is a data centre! He is normally very helpful on the phone even to people who did not buy from him. For example he identified over the phone with a few questions and tests that my VB and EP system had not been programmatically linked, he referred me to the section in the manual and I did it. The van was one month old and N+B had omitted to do it! Not saying that is your issue, just an example of his extra mile.

 

[Littlewheels]

I believe Mick actually doesn’t have a limit on mileage his knowledge and effort to meet the highest of standards doesn’t end until he’s happy with the resolution and this is beyond any limit.

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[OurMoreloLife]

I believe Mick actually doesn’t have a limit on mileage his knowledge and effort to meet the highest of standards doesn’t end until he’s happy with the resolution and this is beyond any limit.

Sounds like a real gem of a guy. I don't know Mick or SAP, is he a member here

 

[OurMoreloLife]

Or at least to go to a VB approved dealer!

I'm happy to go to a VB dealer but they have already said they won't look at it as it's an OEM install (meaning Original Equipment Manufacturer) done by Morelo. I actually think this language is inaccurate as it's not an OEM product; its a fully branded VB product installed by an authorised vehicle manufacturer; and OEM is known to be an ambiguous statement too.

Wikipedia states:
An original equipment manufacturer (OEM) is a company that produces parts and equipment that may be marketed by another manufacturer. For example, if Acme Manufacturing Co. makes power cords that are used on IBM computers, Acme is an OEM. The term is also used in several other ways, which causes ambiguity.

And another:
The acronym OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer, which is another way of saying OEM parts are made by the same manufacturer that makes genuine BMW parts. OEM parts are typically made in the same factory, of the same materials, by the same people, using the same tools and machines as genuine parts.

So, if this were an OEM install, it would be branded as 'Morelo Air Suspension' (but manufactured by VB) if I understand it correctly. But it isn't like that as no-one would buy it as they want the branded VB product and therefore, a Morelo installation is not OEM in this example as it is fully branded by Morelo as a VB product.

If I can get hold of Mick I'll certainly have a chat with him about it.

 

[funflair]

Hi Peter @OurMoreloLife

Is yours 4C or active air.

You say that the "beeping" is definitely coming from the VB air suspension, does it have a "beeper"? I have just read the manual for 4C and can see no reference to an audible alarm. Could it possibly be something to do with the E&P jacks as that system does have an audible alarm.

Martin

EDIT have you tried switching the suspension system off with the service button and then moving off carefully, does it still "beep"

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[stewartwebr]

Peter, that just smacks of a similar issue I am facing with Morelo at the moment and they are seriously pi**ing me off to the extent I'm having serious thoughts about cancelling the Empire. I noticed a few "bubbles" have started to appear on my front alloy wheels. I was very conscious of the issue as my Flare suffered from exactly the same fault, fitted with the same wheels. All four alloys were replaced under warranty and without question by N&B.
I took pictures and have been dealing with Morelo. They have directed me to the warranty document which clearly states that the Morelo warranty only covers Morelo produced items. Therefore, technically, very little is actually covered. With regard to the alloys they were provided by Meier and as such I would need to submit a claim to them. However, similar claims have been rejected as they are unaware of how the wheels have been cleaned and maintained. However, as a good will gesture, Morelo have agreed to pay for one of the wheels if I pay for the other at a cost of 387.17 each plus transport and change costs.
I will not give up and will not accept their offer. What this has done is really opened my eyes to the warranty offered by Morelo. It is clearly defined in the service history booklet and it has really shocked me. If for example your fridge fails, it is Dometic you need to chase. This is shocking and I appreciate SoG Act and supplying dealer but in the past the manufacturer has had a completely different approach.

 

[stewartwebr]

Hi Peter @OurMoreloLife

Is yours 4C or active air.

You say that the "beeping" is definitely coming from the VB air suspension, does it have a "beeper"? I have just read the manual for 4C and can see no reference to an audible alarm. Could it possibly be something to do with the E&P jacks as that system does have an audible alarm.

Martin

EDIT have you tried switching the suspension system off with the service button and then moving off carefully, does it still "beep"

Hi Martin,

I am having the same issue and the 4C VB does have an auditable alarm which comes from the handset.

 

[funflair]

Hi Martin,

I am having the same issue and the 4C VB does have an auditable alarm which comes from the handset.

Ah OK, thanks for that still can't find anything in the instruction though,

Martin

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[funflair]

Peter, that just smacks of a similar issue I am facing with Morelo at the moment and they are seriously pi**ing me off to the extent I'm having serious thoughts about cancelling the Empire. I noticed a few "bubbles" have started to appear on my front alloy wheels. I was very conscious of the issue as my Flare suffered from exactly the same fault, fitted with the same wheels. All four alloys were replaced under warranty and without question by N&B.
I took pictures and have been dealing with Morelo. They have directed me to the warranty document which clearly states that the Morelo warranty only covers Morelo produced items. Therefore, technically, very little is actually covered. With regard to the alloys they were provided by Meier and as such I would need to submit a claim to them. However, similar claims have been rejected as they are unaware of how the wheels have been cleaned and maintained. However, as a good will gesture, Morelo have agreed to pay for one of the wheels if I pay for the other at a cost of 387.17 each plus transport and change costs.
I will not give up and will not accept their offer. What this has done is really opened my eyes to the warranty offered by Morelo. It is clearly defined in the service history booklet and it has really shocked me. If for example your fridge fails, it is Dometic you need to chase. This is shocking and I appreciate SoG Act and supplying dealer but in the past the manufacturer has had a completely different approach.

Alloys seem to be a big problem on motorhomes yet the manufacturers push you into having them, Morelo say that you have to have alloys on the front with air suspension to give space for the air bags BUT they can accomplish the same with steel wheels and spacers but would rather "up sell" to alloys.

Martin

 

[sallylillian]

Alloys seem to be a big problem on motorhomes yet the manufacturers push you into having them, Morelo say that you have to have alloys on the front with air suspension to give space for the air bags BUT they can accomplish the same with steel wheels and spacers but would rather "up sell" to alloys.

Martin

An interesting point Martin, I have decided against alloys on the new Palace Liner, 1. Because they fail and the big Alcoa they fit to the MB 19.5 inch wheels are the same that I had on the RV, they are tremendous work to maintain. 2. What happens when you get a tyre issue or blow out, the wheel never survives an encounter with a tyre fitter, and they all have different spacers etc so steel wheels for me with flashy stainless trims.
If I was having another Daily base I would have steels all round and use the solid Aluminium trims from Goldschmidt that are on my rear steels to match the solid front alloys.

 

[funflair]

An interesting point Martin, I have decided against alloys on the new Palace Liner, 1. Because they fail and the big Alcoa they fit to the MB 19.5 inch wheels are the same that I had on the RV, they are tremendous work to maintain. 2. What happens when you get a tyre issue or blow out, the wheel never survives an encounter with a tyre fitter, and they all have different spacers etc so steel wheels for me with flashy stainless trims.
If I was having another Daily base I would have steels all round and use the solid Aluminium trims from Goldschmidt that are on my rear steels to match the solid front alloys.

I have a new set of Stainless trims in the garage at home, just waiting for a new van to fit them to.

Martin

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[gus-lopez]

They have directed me to the warranty document which clearly states that the Morelo warranty only covers Morelo produced items. Therefore, technically, very little is actually covered. With regard to the alloys they were provided by Meier and as such I would need to submit a claim to them. However, similar claims have been rejected as they are unaware of how the wheels have been cleaned and maintained. However, as a good will gesture, Morelo have agreed to pay for one of the wheels if I pay for the other at a cost of 387.17 each plus transport and change costs.

I cannot believe that is legal.

EU consumer rights are broadly speaking exactly the same in all states. The actual seller of the assembled parts ,Morelo, is liable for the first 2 years. Anything else would be contrary to the unfair commercial practices directive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Directive_2005
& German law.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/germany/index_en.htm

 

[OurMoreloLife]

As far as I am concerned it is Morelo that holds lability for all the systems they install into their vehicle. It is their responsibility to manage all warranty claims, not the buyer doing it on their behalf. This is scandalous! It's like this is a cottage industry worth many millions ££ per annum!


In the UK there would likely be a claim under the The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which regulates clauses that exclude or limit terms implied by the common law or statute. Its general pattern is that if clauses restrict liability, particularly negligence, of one party, the clause must pass the "reasonableness test" in section 11 and Schedule 2.

Or even

The Principles of European Contract Law (PECL) is a set of model rules drawn up by leading contract law academics in Europe. It attempts to elucidate basic rules of contract law and more generally the law of obligations which most legal systems of the member states of the European Union hold in common. The Principles of European Contract Law are based on the concept of a uniform European contract law system, and were created by the self-styled Commission on European Contract Law set up by Ole Lando ("Lando Commission"). The PECL take into account the requirements of the European domestic trade.

I have said this before and will say it again. Morelo just don't do customer service; they have not the first idea of how to retain customers

 

[CazPaul]

Its terrible practise if Morelo are doing that, I certainly wouldn't buy a van from them now, especially a very expensive premium one.

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[sallylillian]

I think it depends on your purchasing profile. I have a Morelo on order from a dealer in Bavaria. My current Flair was from a dealer in Dortmund. The question is can you expect AA roadside support Europe wide from a dealer in Germany? Even in the UK its back to the dealer and a 2000 mile round trip is not going to happen for me. Do you expect or get it from a UK dealer, no.
Apart from a couple of major issues which were paint and construction related and for which N+B sent a low loader to collect and redeliver, I have used my own savvy to solve the problem (including extensive trawling through Fun) and find the solution. One was the fridge for example, I did not even speak to my dealer or N+B but Dometic direct who said I could use any Dometic dealer, and I have a local mobile one who is good and he came to my van and condemned the cooling unit and got a new one from Dometic and then came and replaced it. Same guy is a Truma dealer and he changed my regulator under warranty in a similar manner. Other minor things like rear camera (issue identified on here by @Lenny HB), window catch, locker catch and other odd bits my dealer posted the part to me wherever I was in Europe.
I had a US RV, support from the states? By phone and email yes!
It is hard to adapt the mind structure and expectations in comparison to buying a new car or many other things for that matter, but Durrwang and N+B have been brilliant, will Gluck & Morelo? Not sure but at least I now have a relationship with the MD of Morelo who refused to sell me one of his vans in a heated debate! There was a happy ending and he will remember me!
But I think if you deal in Europe for the price advantage it is best to have expectations that are realistic. Dealers are 80% box shifters, if your mind is set to lower levels you are less likely to be disappointed I find.
Apart from the initial shock and disruption of a failure I do find that resolving issues is the best way to learn how the van works and frankly I get some satisfaction out of it.

 

[CazPaul]

Good points Michael however not everyone has your skill and knowledge and just want the dealer to sort stuff out, as they should be doing, if they are being like this then does that not make you think of their morals as a company. I wonder what is being said on the German forums and it they tell German customers the same, surely not? They would get slated for sure.
Morelo should be much better than this, I can't see niesmann telling customers that, they would sort it out. It's terrible, " My fridge is knackered after 3 months" Well take it to Dometic. Nothing to do with us sir. Not good enough.

 

[funflair]

I think it depends on your purchasing profile. I have a Morelo on order from a dealer in Bavaria. My current Flair was from a dealer in Dortmund. The question is can you expect AA roadside support Europe wide from a dealer in Germany? Even in the UK its back to the dealer and a 2000 mile round trip is not going to happen for me. Do you expect or get it from a UK dealer, no.
Apart from a couple of major issues which were paint and construction related and for which N+B sent a low loader to collect and redeliver, I have used my own savvy to solve the problem (including extensive trawling through Fun) and find the solution. One was the fridge for example, I did not even speak to my dealer or N+B but Dometic direct who said I could use any Dometic dealer, and I have a local mobile one who is good and he came to my van and condemned the cooling unit and got a new one from Dometic and then came and replaced it. Same guy is a Truma dealer and he changed my regulator under warranty in a similar manner. Other minor things like rear camera (issue identified on here by @Lenny HB), window catch, locker catch and other odd bits my dealer posted the part to me wherever I was in Europe.
I had a US RV, support from the states? By phone and email yes!
It is hard to adapt the mind structure and expectations in comparison to buying a new car or many other things for that matter, but Durrwang and N+B have been brilliant, will Gluck & Morelo? Not sure but at least I now have a relationship with the MD of Morelo who refused to sell me one of his vans in a heated debate! There was a happy ending and he will remember me!
But I think if you deal in Europe for the price advantage it is best to have expectations that are realistic. Dealers are 80% box shifters, if your mind is set to lower levels you are less likely to be disappointed I find.
Apart from the initial shock and disruption of a failure I do find that resolving issues is the best way to learn how the van works and frankly I get some satisfaction out of it.

We all like a "happy ending" Michael

Martin

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[sallylillian]

We all like a "happy ending" Michael

Martin

I haven't got it yet but they have agreed I can replace the poor Buttner inverter charger with a Victron without loss of warranty on the rest of the van! Too much to go into on here but catch up some time.

 

[sallylillian]

Good points Michael however not everyone has your skill and knowledge and just want the dealer to sort stuff out, as they should be doing, if they are being like this then does that not make you think of their morals as a company. I wonder what is being said on the German forums and it they tell German customers the same, surely not? They would get slated for sure.
Morelo should be much better than this, I can't see niesmann telling customers that, they would sort it out. It's terrible, " My fridge is knackered after 3 months" Well take it to Dometic. Nothing to do with us sir. Not good enough.

I understand, indeed it is the very reason that Morelo have forsaken Mastervolt, most customers struggle with a system that is too intelligent and the need for reprogramming became rampant. I suggested that they only sold a Mastervolt system to customers who went on a 2 day course, and passed a test, like having a C licence to drive a HGV chassis. Not received too well.

 

[OurMoreloLife]

Morning guys,

Michael, whilst I think I get the general point you're making, "lower your expectations and you won't be disappointed" right? Should I have to do that? Probably not.
Do German buyers do that? I very much doubt it. I didn't know 80% of dealers were box shifters.

In my case, when I was considering the purchase of this Morelo from Morelo direct, I asked Premium Motorhomes if they could buy this Palace trade for me so I had UK warranty but you probably know what the answer to that was, don't you? Yep, actually, Gluck owned it so Premium couldn't get involved. Premium Motorhomes didn't have a Morelo that met my spec so I looked further to Germany, as you have.

Whilst I appreciate that the dealer and not the manufacturer hold liability for warranty repairs, there is much they could do to make the customer appreciate them and by assisting when a customer most needs such support (retention). Take my Range Rover. When I have had problems in the past, the technician came to me at home to carry out urgent repairs and then forward ordered parts to a dealer of my choice for on-going warranty repairs. Can I do that with a Morelo? No, I can't. Have any of the German dealers established reciprocal support frameworks with UK dealers (other than Premium)? Not that I know of. But many of the systems and components used are pretty generic so possibly any Concorde dealer could fix a Dometic freezer right?

When I had major issues with a previous Range Rover and the dealer wouldn't step up to deal with them, Land Rover's MD assigned me with a personal contact in her team to ensure complete satisfaction and resolution. That's service. Did I buy another Range Rover even after such a bad experience? Yes, I did.

You know I can do repairs and upgrades to my motorhome but I won't touch anything that could be the subject of a warranty claim and here, in my example, we're talking about a VB suspension fault which could be safety related and isn't trivial. What was the first thing I did? I asked here in an effort to understand and possibly fix it myself. Secondly, did I call Gluck? No, I called VB UK direct in an effort to understand and possibly take it to a local French dealer (we were in France earlier this week). But I wasn't allowed to do do that because VB says Morelo is an OEM installer which I disagree with. There is still a conversation to be had about this.

Having understood it wasn't dangerous to drive it back to the UK, I did just that. But, having made the dealer aware of this issue, it's what they do next that has the most impact on customer satisfaction. Did they say we will arrange a VB tech to come to your home to understand the problem and possibly replace a 50p fuse? No, they did not. They did say take it 300 miles (and 3 or 4 days from your busy work schedule) to go to Yorkshire for them to replace a 50p fuse possibly. Yes, they did. Is that great service? Had they said to take it to a VB dealer and we will cover the warranty claim that would have been a great resolution as they will end up having to fund the costs wherever it is repaired.

I do not have a bad word to say about Gluck. Natascha is simply amazing. She is so helpful and Thomas, her MD is also really clever and always helpful. When I contacted Natascha by email about this issue, she sent me the details of a VB dealer in the UK to take it to in order to have it checked; very kind of her. However, will Gluck or Morelo authorise VB repairs in the UK? I don't know yet but I will let you know.

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[CazPaul]

Before actually buying and parting with a few hundred grand then it is probably best to establish what will happen when things go wrong. It needs to be in writing as well before you place an order, that's the only way this will get sorted out, if they are losing sales then they will have to do something about it.
There needs to be a clear track of what to do and where you get support from, this needs to come from Morelo.
It is very poor practise from them but if what @funflair says is correct and they received a few hundred orders at the Dusseldorf show then they are getting too big, growing too fast without putting the infrastructure in place.

 

[sallylillian]

Sorry Peter I was not meaning to have a go at you although perhaps my post was a little condescending, apologies. I recognize and agree with what you say but in the end support is a major issue. Ulrich who owns Durrwang spent some time explaining the utter seat of the pants production cycle of a MH.
First consider a car's gestation period he said, around 2 years. They build a prototype, then a multiple more which are all tested to destruction. Then they build say 50 (can't remember the number maybe more) and have them driven over a 12 month period for thousands of miles. Tweaking all the time. Then they do a test production run. Then they start production proper. In the MH industry they knock up a prototype and take it to a few shows, get some orders and start production and delivery. Perhaps a slight over simplification. And then Morelo produce what 300 a year maybe less, N+B produce 550 Flairs and Artos a year. Tesla is hitting 5000 a WEEK we know but Ford and others huge numbers.
I said when is my delivery, he said June, I said when in June, when I order my new Audi they say build week 36 delivery 10 days later.
So he said Michael lower your expectations and you will not be so disappointed.

 

[CazPaul]

N+B are a more stablished company though with better infrastructure in place, many more dealers etc.
Are you still definitely going ahead with your order then Michael?
If so you are getting the mastervolt system then not the buttner?

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[sallylillian]

N+B are a more stablished company though with better infrastructure in place, many more dealers etc.
Are you still definitely going ahead with your order then Michael?
If so you are getting the mastervolt system then not the buttner?

Well there is a question! It is a long story and I did say to Martin @funflair that I would leave it for now but I will try and précis the experience.
So we are in Spain for a couple of months and Morelo suddenly need me at the factory in September to resolve all the outstanding stuff so we flew from Malaga on Tuesday and back on the Thursday. The Mastervolt thing took over 2 hours from 09:30 to well gone 11. In simple terms they will not install the Mastervolt system no way no how. It appears that they have had massive issues with support, Mastervolt appear to expect customers to go to Morelo when they have a problem, me I would just drive to the nearest marina, there will be a Mastervolt dealer, but that aside it would seem that the software configuration of practically every MV device is creating problems. They can send a part but then it getts complicated. Sorry to say it but many MH owners do not have the basics of 12vdc so hooking up a laptop running Masteradjust and loading a backup config file onto a networked device is way past the point of comprehension. MV do have an internet gateway device Amperian, but that depends on the MH owner having a router and some good wifi or MiFi. All of this stuff is easy for me I have been configuring Victron for years.

So I can understand their position it must be a nightmare, they dumped MV maybe April or May.

As I said in an earlier post they have agreed not to disavow the warranty on the van if I swap the Buttner out which I have now got planned through RV installations, but at my expense. I will have a Victron Quattro 5kva unit installed with some remote panels, a very simple change in point of fact and one I could do myself but I would like to have someone who can do a neat job! At the same time I do think Buttner are working on a solution and as my build is late February maybe there will be a better answer from the factory by then??

I do like the Buttner charge booster it manages a 24vdc engine with a 12vdc house circuit and combines the solar into the mix for both, and it somehow or other resolves the smart charging that goes with Euro 5 onwards.

In answer to your basic question yes my order stands despite Lohner totally losing it in a meeting to a point of saying "we are a rich company we don't need customers like you creating shit storms on the internet", a reference to a thread on LinerTreff, where there is a very unforgiving frustrated Morelo owner, and where I was enquiring about Mastervolt and Buttner. He loves his company and clearly takes criticism to heart.

I do personally like their product, they are the only ones supplying a slide on a 9.3mt van (I am having the MB 12 ton Atego chassis) and I do love probably 95% of their design and styling. Still hate the tables, more cheap coffee shop than classy restaurant, and we have ditched the Fablon "Carbon Look" graphics. They have a massive leather sample collection and contrary to the catalogue there are some great choices available. They are also more amenable to customer adaptions and I have several things being done that N+B would not tackle. I am looking forward to driving the MB.

Back to the subject of support. Would I want to drive my van 300 miles to a UK dealer, or 1000 miles to my German dealer or would I prefer to take it up the road to a local Dometic dealer who does one specific product range to get my fridge fixed? I'll think on it!

Michael

 

[funflair]

Hi Michael

Very interesting, good choice of layouts that certainly sets Morelo apart from the competition, also interesting that you are ditching the "carbon look" not my favourite either.

I take it you like who they have done with the cupboards Michael, what about the lighter wood finish?

Martin

 

[sallylillian]

Hi Michael

Very interesting, good choice of layouts that certainly sets Morelo apart from the competition, also interesting that you are ditching the "carbon look" not my favourite either.

I take it you like who they have done with the cupboards Michael, what about the lighter wood finish?

Martin

Hi Martin,

The carbon graphics Fablon is the same that Adria put on their sonic supreme, my mate has it and has just stripped it off as it is impossible to keep clean and streak free. I asked Stewart, @stewartwebr Peter @OurMoreloLife and Chris ex zcars, all said the graphics were a pain. Sally thinks too much black just absorbs the heat despite the insulation. And whilst the glass panels on the Empire look OK the black and white seems a little dated to me. As to the cupboards they are a virtual copy of my Flair, with the exception that Morelo have a positive locking mechanism compared to the Flairs plastic push to release which I have had 6 fail. Especially now they have gas struts instead of the spring struts. We are having the dark wood which used to be a Trend extra and is now standard. As I said I still struggle with their table tops and as we are having the bar version (because the centre table does not move with the slide out and restricts space) we would like the Concorde style with wood trim edging.

So we are progressing and I feel more comfortable with the process, and I truly believe we will have a very good MH for our money with the way they have hiked prices since our order. I am so looking forward to the Atego chassis, it will be like going back to the sedate mile eating comfort of our RV without the porpoising!
I shall be going out to the Stuttgart show in January as the first Palace Liner will be on show and I will be able to agree the final issues once the layout is set in stone!

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