Max towing weights, what is the maximum with a MH. (1 Viewer)

[sam496]

Maximum Technical Permissible Mass.

Basically same as GVW.

Martin

So an easy 8000KG GTW (gross train weight or GCW gross combined wight)

Thanks

seen one at 44K

 

[sam496]

AlKO chassis is unpainted galvanised steel from the rear of the cab... fiat chassis cab is painted steel throughout.
ALKO chassis is fitted by the converter, not Fiat.
The cab is supplied without a chassis from the cab backwards or the fiat chassis is removed and replaced with an ALKO by the converter.

This is how they are transported/delivered.

View attachment 206368

Mine is Fiat chassis cab

 

[funflair]

So an easy 8000KG GTW (gross train weight or GCW gross combined wight)

Thanks

seen one at 44K

Our van is 6000kg MAM or GVW or whatever, so for sure this gives at least 2250kg for a trailer, the van would still be very useable downplayed to 5500kg to allow a trailer of 2750kg to stay within 8250 GTW or GCW, wether that is the way to do it or not I am not 100% sure but it looks that way to me.

Martin

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[sam496]

Yep, the weight plate law was introduced to discourage home builders.
Unless you have an engineering understanding/background you will have no idea of the structural strength of a trailer or its static and dynamic weight bearing ability...professional builders do know so can safely issue a given weight plate accordingly.

In my experience most of the big name trailer builders have homologated a range of trailers and will not deviate from them even if you offer to get an individual cert on it.. I managed it eventually by phoning one who after a bit of a chat realised that I knew a bit of what I was talking about, I needed a 7 metre bed (legal limit unless indivisable load) but did not need 7'6" or 8' width. As I didnt need weight capacity we settled on 5'10" wide and 7 metre bed and 2 x 1300KG axles as the steel sections, being slightly bigger, would help with twist.

 

[pappajohn]

My large unbraked box trailer (10ft x 4ft bed dimensions) has twin 750kg ALKO axles downplated to 375kg each and marked as such on the manufacturers plate.

 

[pappajohn]

In my experience most of the big name trailer builders have homologated a range of trailers and will not deviate from them even if you offer to get an individual cert on it.. I managed it eventually by phoning one who after a bit of a chat realised that I knew a bit of what I was talking about, I needed a 7 metre bed (legal limit unless indivisable load) but did not need 7'6" or 8' width. As I didnt need weight capacity we settled on 5'10" wide and 7 metre bed and 2 x 1300KG axles as the steel sections, being slightly bigger, would help with twist.

Agree, but most will issue a new plate if DOWNrating a heavier trailwr
They obviously know the strength is unaffected unlike updating.

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[sam496]

I stand corrected on the VIN. However what happens if I build my own?
And as far as I'm aware a trailer can still be downplated by the owner simply by re-stamping the plate.

Our van is 6000kg MAM or GVW or whatever, so for sure this gives at least 2250kg for a trailer, the van would still be very useable downplayed to 5500kg to allow a trailer of 2750kg to stay within 8250 GTW or GCW, wether that is the way to do it or not I am not 100% sure but it looks that way to me.

Martin

either way would suit me, price of MH may be a touch out of my range tho

 

[funflair]

either way would suit me, price of MH may be a touch out of my range tho

Sorry can't help with that.

You can get vans on the IVECO 50C 5000kg or 60C 6000kg chassis for less money as N+B are not the cheapest, if you want to tow post 2005 gives the option of the 3 litre which has a lot more grunt than the previous 2.8.

Martin

 

[sam496]

Agree, but most will issue a new plate if DOWNrating a heavier trailwr
They obviously know the strength is unaffected unlike updating.

When everything is finalised I may down plate the trailer to a lower weight, still undecided if I will put a covered body on it yet

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[sam496]

Sorry can't help with that.

You can get vans on the IVECO 50C 5000kg or 60C 6000kg chassis for less money as N+B are not the cheapest, if you want to tow post 2005 gives the option of the 3 litre which has a lot more grunt than the previous 2.8.

Martin

Thanks Martin, I have noticed a lot of the other MH's are now fitting the 3.0 engine which I think is the Iveco unit.. I'd like a N+B but also quite like the dethleffs and burstner ranges.

 

[sam496]

Trailer

 

[tonyidle]

Yep, the weight plate law was introduced to discourage home builders.
Unless you have an engineering understanding/background you will have no idea of the structural strength of a trailer or its static and dynamic weight bearing ability...professional builders do know so can safely issue a given weight plate accordingly.

If that is true it hardly discourages anyone really. I've built 4 over a number of years - two based on early caravan chassis, one on a Mini subframe, and one on Indespension units. All had a weight plate (or stamp really) based on the suspension l was using at the time.

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[sam496]

If that is true it hardly discourages anyone really. I've built 4 over a number of years - two based on early caravan chassis, one on a Mini subframe, and one on Indespension units. All had a weight plate (or stamp really) based on the suspension l was using at the time.

Ditto an early one many years ago with indespension units (single axle built for a sports racer) fabricated from Box sections and the 2nd again from various box sections and two indespension axles (special offer) ended up 22 feet long with a full frame to enclose, I made the full frame too strong so the chassis kept cracking.. removed the box frame and re made it for two trips and was better, new trailer will taker either car so bought one ..

 

[tonyidle]

Trailer
View attachment 206370View attachment 206371

Thats tidy.

 

[Ranger]

Iveco Vans also have a very good towing limit often 3500KG as they are both heavy and powerful, what is MTPM excuse my ignorance,

Our 3,500kg Iveco PVC has a GTW of 7000kg. but crap brakes.

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[funflair]

Thanks Martin, I have noticed a lot of the other MH's are now fitting the 3.0 engine which I think is the Iveco unit.. I'd like a N+B but also quite like the dethleffs and burstner ranges.

Yes lots of 3 litre Fiat based MH's are using the IVECO block but FWD in my book you need to stick with the IVECO badge on the front to get RWD and the best payload and towing capacity.

Martin

 

[soreeyes]

I stand corrected on the VIN. However what happens if I build my own?
And as far as I'm aware a trailer can still be downplated by the owner simply by re-stamping the plate.

If you build a trailer now after 2012 it has to be EU type approved which means it has to be submitted to be IVA tested it meets the regulations .

Manufacturers can't downplate a trailer unless they have submitted the trailer for type approval at the different weights .

Vin plates on trailers after 2012 are a lot more regulated like motor vehicles plates. Prior since 82 a trailer only required a plate with the trailers MAM .

If a trailer has not got a plate then the axle plate or tyre load index number on the tyres would be used if stopped by authorities .

 

[jezport]

Ducato Maxi chassis like mine came plated at 6500kG GTM giving it 3000KG towing capacity if the van weight is at 3500kg

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[mitzimad]

Ducato Maxi chassis like mine came plated at 6500kG GTM giving it 3000KG towing capacity if the van weight is at 3500kg

Mine was the same I'm sure the adition of a well braked trailer could only improve the braking

 

[tonyidle]

If you build a trailer now after 2012 it has to be EU type approved which means it has to be submitted to be IVA tested it meets the regulations .

Manufacturers can't downplate a trailer unless they have submitted the trailer for type approval at the different weights .

Vin plates on trailers after 2012 are a lot more regulated like motor vehicles plates. Prior since 82 a trailer only required a plate with the trailers MAM .

If a trailer has not got a plate then the axle plate or tyre load index number on the tyres would be used if stopped by authorities .

In that case if l build another it will finished in 2011.

 

[pappajohn]

Manufacturers can't downplate a trailer unless they have submitted the trailer for type approval at the different weights .

Tell that to Ifor Williams.....they obviously haven't been told.

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[soreeyes]

Tell that to Ifor Williams.....they obviously haven't been told.

It was IFW that I enquired with a few years ago in a email that they have to submit a trailer at different weights same applies to caravan as well .

The same as a motorhome that has to be subjected to authorised companies in conjunction with manufacturers and DVSA .

 

[pappajohn]

Well I know mines legal......or is it ?

Doubtful, as the CoC states for use in countries driving on the left (bottom of 1st page) yet the solitary fog light is on the left hand side.

 

[BryanM]

Our Laika works very well for towing. Gives 3000kg trailer weight which we used to good effect going to Silverstone last year!

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[gus-lopez]

But there are lots of trailers out there without plates how do they overcome that?

Not since 1982 there shouldn't be.
As far as I know the law says if no weight plate is present on the trailer the max weight is taken to be the combined loading stated on the tyre side wall as singles x number of tyres, because even if the trailer is plated higher, it still can only take the maximum the tyres can handle, and are rated at

I don’t think you have to have a trailer plated so no offence? My observations are that with the type approval of Towbars and also new trailers that may be an offence on newer trailers but older ones have nothing on.

Required since 1982, If no plate tyre limit is taken as max weight x number & trailer will be taken & weighed , as above.

I stand corrected on the VIN. However what happens if I build my own?
And as far as I'm aware a trailer can still be downplated by the owner simply by re-stamping the plate.

You can't since 29th Oct.2012 without sva testing to homologate & get a plate.unless you do as you say & build it prior to that

■Since 1982 all trailers, including unbraked ones, must be clearly marked with their maximum gross weight in kilogrammes.
■Since January 1, 1997, all unbraked trailer plates must show the year of manufacture.
■Department of Transport Code of Practice states that is desirable for trailers less than 3,500kg gross vehicle to carry a manufacturer's plate clearly showing manufacturer's name and address, chassis or serial number, model number, number of axles, maximum weight per axle, nose weight or coupling, maximum gross weight and date of manufacturer.

If you built it yourself prior to the 2012 date it should still have complied with the above.
How long will it take for the UK to adopt the Northern Ireland requirement for testing of all trailers?

 

[maxi77]

Not since 1982 there shouldn't be.
As far as I know the law says if no weight plate is present on the trailer the max weight is taken to be the combined loading stated on the tyre side wall as singles x number of tyres, because even if the trailer is plated higher, it still can only take the maximum the tyres can handle, and are rated at



Required since 1982, If no plate tyre limit is taken as max weight x number & trailer will be taken & weighed , as above.



You can't since 29th Oct.2012 without sva testing to homologate & get a plate.unless you do as you say & build it prior to that

■Since 1982 all trailers, including unbraked ones, must be clearly marked with their maximum gross weight in kilogrammes.
■Since January 1, 1997, all unbraked trailer plates must show the year of manufacture.
■Department of Transport Code of Practice states that is desirable for trailers less than 3,500kg gross vehicle to carry a manufacturer's plate clearly showing manufacturer's name and address, chassis or serial number, model number, number of axles, maximum weight per axle, nose weight or coupling, maximum gross weight and date of manufacturer.

If you built it yourself prior to the 2012 date it should still have complied with the above.
How long will it take for the UK to adopt the Northern Ireland requirement for testing of all trailers?

And also follow the rest of Europe and have trailers caravans etc registered and plated in their own right

 

[sam496]

If it's a chassis cab base then I'm surprised that you can tow so little.

The weights quoted in my posts were the stickers on both front seats, today I looked at the chassis plate that fiat fittedand its a different story

GVW 3500KG
CVW 5500KG

so according to FIAT a 2000KG is acceptable? I could downplate the trailer to 2000KG and actually carry a lot of things on the trailer instead of inside the motorhome.

I'm going to take it to a weighbridge and see how much it weighs, fuel tank is nearly full, water tanks are about 30% full, full of pots and pans, food, clothing, awning and privacy room and other bits and bobs.

should I use the manufacturers weights or the converters?

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[Mikeco]

That would be your towing weight limit only if your actual MH weight is 3500Kg.
If you run at, for example, 3000Kg, the you would be able to tow 1330Kg.

Ian

I don't see that as being right, the towing weight will have been decided by Alko who know what their chassis will take, you can't simply increase that because the van is lighter.

 

[Mikeco]

The weights quoted in my posts were the stickers on both front seats, today I looked at the chassis plate that fiat fittedand its a different story

GVW 3500KG
CVW 5500KG

so according to FIAT a 2000KG is acceptable? I could downplate the trailer to 2000KG and actually carry a lot of things on the trailer instead of inside the motorhome.

I'm going to take it to a weighbridge and see how much it weighs, fuel tank is nearly full, water tanks are about 30% full, full of pots and pans, food, clothing, awning and privacy room and other bits and bobs.

should I use the manufacturers weights or the converters?

Converters plate will supercede the Fiat one.

 

[sam496]

I don't see that as being right, the towing weight will have been decided by Alko who know what their chassis will take, you can't simply increase that because the van is lighter.

Its not an Alko chassis, its all Fiat, the Fiat chassis tag under the bonnet as origionally fitted by Fiat and also I found on google images a picture of side by side chassis plates, one from the manufacturer where the Alko plate uprated the original by 500KG

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