Loss of power on inclines (1 Viewer)

[F4K EM]

We had to return home last week from Spain when heading to Algarve in our Rollerteam Granduca. Having driven through France and into Spain up and down the hills as normal.
I noticed the mpg was way down from the expected 30ish to 26. Then on just a steady incline using cruise control, the speed dropped gradually without dropping out of cc. It drove ok on the flat but struggled on inclines then on any hill I was dropping to 3rd to make it and the EML came on.
Got to nearby Salamanca to Fiat dealers. No one spoke English but diagnosis showed possible EGR and it was seen the fuel filter case was cracked and leaking diesel. That was replaced for €350. Set off again next day but light came back on on the first hill. Back to Fiat. They then cleaned out the EGR and air intake system for another €150 and test drove it. I went on second test drive with mechanic driving and knew it wasn't cured, then light came back on! Due to the language barrier and
Knowing it was mainly downhill back to Santander, I cut my losses and got ferry home.
Come the day of getting into my usual garage, the the EML wouldn't come on despite taking it to Matlock for some decent hills which I had to crawl up in 2nd gear.
They plugged it in anyway and it showed intermittent EGR fault. SO they put a new EGR system on for £300. Went a ride next day but still no good and light came on on a gradual incline. Got it back to garage without switching off. Diagnosis still showed EGR so they said it must be the solenoid switch for EGR.
THe solenoid was replaced for £125 and you guessed it, its still the same but with no light coming on.
It's now booked in for Wednesday when the main mechanic is back off holiday!
I would be glad to hear of similar experiences and what the outcome was or expert knowledge from any mechanics.
The van is a 2010 Ducato 2.3 multi jet 120hp with 61000 miles. It drives fine on the flat with or without cruise control then dies on long inclines and completely struggles on proper hills.

 

[MattR]

I'm not a mechanic and know that this might not make mechanical sense but I had a similar issue wirh intermittent power loss when going up hill. Diagnostics didnt find anything but it cleared up after a fuel filter change. The tank was almost empty when we bought the camper and although the dealee said that they had done a full service, I suspect that I stirred up some gunk in the bottom of the tank which parlty blocked a fuel line. When i accelerated up hill, the vehicle didn't get enough fuel so slowed down even when the revs were the same.

 

[Jev88]

Sounds like fuel starvation? An air leak on turbo lines can also show that. Under heavy load it reveals its ugly head.

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[hymerman]

I had a similar problem to Mattyjwr , new fuel filter fixed it.

 

[Googlebot]

Have you got a split in a turbo or vacuum hose that only opens up under heavy load?

 

[TinaLes]

F4K EM
Feel for you mate, after all those so called Fiat Specialists have looked at it, worked on it, and taken your dosh, and you still have problems! Makes me wonder, do any of them know what they are doing exactly, over and above changing stuff whether needed or not, because that's what is written in their workshop fault fixing guide.
There are some great knowledgeable people on here that may be able to share their thoughts, hang about I am sue they will have something better to suggest for you.
Fingers crossed, your sorted soon.
LES

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[Diabalo]

I would have thought the OBD would have given an indication.

 

[pollensabob]

Hi had similar problem on my Ford Transit turned out the waste gate on the variable vane turbo had seized. Have removed turbo and exhaust manifold. Awaiting delivery of new turbo and manifold. The fault was caused by rain water entering the air filter casing causing the element to disintegrate and being sucked through the system. I had to replace the oil cooler which was also blocked up. Expensive job!!

 

[simsy56]

Sounds like fuel starvation.

Craig

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[Parrot Face]

We had EGR problems in diesel 4wd going through Spain and Portugal, same symptoms but we had loads of black smoke coming from the exhaust. We just blocked off the EGR and it was fine until I scrapped it 9 yrs later. Probably nothing to do with it but the ABS pump for that age of vehicle is suspect and could cause the engine warning light to come on.

 

[chaser]

I would be looking at the fuel side as well especially as the filter was leaking, have they put the new one on properly.

 

[TerryL]

It's nothing to do with EGR, filters, solenoids and the like which most garages fit on a "try it and see if it works" basis.
At considerable cost to the owner of course - ask me, I've been there as have many others. Eventually a Fiat Professional service manager told me and sorted it after I provided a very full report of the symptoms. Virtually identical to the OP - I did post a full report but it was ages ago and I can't find it now.

It's the throttle body, a supposedly well known fault on the earlier 2.3 multi-jet Ducatos. Water drips onto the body from the badly fitted/designed scuttle causing corrosion in the electrical components - unfortunately even the Fiat diagnostics don't always get this right. It was pure experience on the part of my man that resolved it and afterwards it ran like a brand new vehicle.

Apparently it was a Fiat recall early in the vehicles life but not mandatory and, in our case anyway, not carried out. Of course it was well out of warranty so it cost me, but they did all the correct work including refitting and resealing the scuttle.

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[Beltie]

+1 for Terry's analysis. If they replace the throttle body, make sure it's the latest type. You can tell, because it will need a new loom.

 

[TinaLes]

It's nothing to do with EGR, filters, solenoids and the like which most garages fit on a "try it and see if it works" basis.
At considerable cost to the owner of course - ask me, I've been there as have many others. Eventually a Fiat Professional service manager told me and sorted it after I provided a very full report of the symptoms. Virtually identical to the OP - I did post a full report but it was ages ago and I can't find it now.

It's the throttle body, a supposedly well known fault on the earlier 2.3 multi-jet Ducatos. Water drips onto the body from the badly fitted/designed scuttle causing corrosion in the electrical components - unfortunately even the Fiat diagnostics don't always get this right. It was pure experience on the part of my man that resolved it and afterwards it ran like a brand new vehicle.

Apparently it was a Fiat recall early in the vehicles life but not mandatory and, in our case anyway, not carried out. Of course it was well out of warranty so it cost me, but they did all the correct work including refitting and resealing the scuttle.

Hi Terry
Thanks for sharing your experience, can you tell me if the throttle body design improved ?if so from what manufacture year if possible?
I remember reading 12/18 months ago about a funster having throttle body problems whilst touring the highlands. It meant he had to lay up near a Fiat Garage for 2/3 days waiting for the replacement part to arrive, or maybe he had to wait for a spares place to get the part and he fitted it himself.
Its quite worrying to think that a Fiat Garage does not look at the throttle body first if they know its a problem.
Reluctantly though, I will give them the benefit of the doubt to a certain degree, as even they would not replace every part and charge for it, only to find in the end it was a known faulty Throttle Body part in the first place.
Fiat must have had hundreds of complaint letters from customers about this problem and that their fitters should have been made fully aware of what to look for FIRST, maybe even to only re prioritising the check list in their manuals.
Lesson for the future to look out for, I just hope our 2017 2.2 micro jet 2 , 150,, has been modified, as I know the earlier models even the euro 5's had this problem.
I must lift the bonnet and check for water & any signs of corrosion, try and nip it in the bud if I can.
Thanks
LES
PS: just received the recall letter for the brake pipe problem.

 

[WillH]

Had my throttle body replaced last year, 2008 2.3 multijet. Drove like new afterwards.

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[TheBig1]

I have been having issues on my nissan navara dropping to limp mode when pushed hard, turns out it's the suction control valve £300 from Nissan or £35 for the equivalent part elsewhere. Same one fitted to the ducato engine. Not saying this is definitely your issue but sounds similar

 

[Campervan_man]

We had a 2007 very low mileage 7,000 miles motorhome in at a dealership that kept cutting out and driving poorly.
Turned out there was organisms floating around in the fuel tank. When driven uphill the organisms floated to the suck pipe of the tank blocking it.
The garage dropped the tank, flushed the tank and refilled with clean fuel. Problem solved.
If your van drives OK on the flat could be the same issue.
As others have said change your fuel filter is also a good idea.

 

[F4K EM]

Thanks everyone. The majority of the similar experiences point to fuel and throttle body. When I take it in the morning I will tell the main man this. I will update you all, hopefully soon.

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[bigguspeckus]

It's nothing to do with EGR, filters, solenoids and the like which most garages fit on a "try it and see if it works" basis.
At considerable cost to the owner of course - ask me, I've been there as have many others. Eventually a Fiat Professional service manager told me and sorted it after I provided a very full report of the symptoms. Virtually identical to the OP - I did post a full report but it was ages ago and I can't find it now.

It's the throttle body, a supposedly well known fault on the earlier 2.3 multi-jet Ducatos. Water drips onto the body from the badly fitted/designed scuttle causing corrosion in the electrical components - unfortunately even the Fiat diagnostics don't always get this right. It was pure experience on the part of my man that resolved it and afterwards it ran like a brand new vehicle.

Apparently it was a Fiat recall early in the vehicles life but not mandatory and, in our case anyway, not carried out. Of course it was well out of warranty so it cost me, but they did all the correct work including refitting and resealing the scuttle.

I'll go with that,,, we store our Moho at ma mates garage (he's been self employed for 35 years).
One of the first things he did was to fabricate a waterproof cover over the top of the engine,,, he pointed out that the windscreen scuttle drain was crap and would dump a fair percentage of the water directly over the cyl head.
We have since removed the wiper blades and the scuttle (it isn't fit for purpose!) and refitted it to where its performing its design duties to an acceptable level (the waterproof cover remains in position though!).
The "throttle body" is a vital component,,, it is in harm's way from water ingress from the windscreen and once it succumbes it will cause problems.
Unfortunately,,, the useless design of the windscreen scuttle affects more than the throttle body,,, the water, spilling over the catch trough cascades down over the cyl head and fills the cyl head injector cavities,,, which result with the injectors being seized into their sockets,,,

a MEGGA expensive repair!!!

Please ask if you think you might be affected by my former comments.
Every time I've asked for help the Funsters have responded,,,
Its great that I may have something to offer in return.

 

[TinaLes]

Thanks bigguspeckus (you really must stop braggin about that ting mate) us blokes have fooled ourselves for years that size doesn't matter
Seriously any chance of posting a picture of your fabricated waterproof cover, whats it made of?
All remedies for problems are always welcome on here, even if some dont get it, others will, and be grateful for the help.
Cheers
LES

 

[Parrot Face]

It's nothing to do with EGR, filters, solenoids and the like which most garages fit on a "try it and see if it works" basis.
At considerable cost to the owner of course - ask me, I've been there as have many others. Eventually a Fiat Professional service manager told me and sorted it after I provided a very full report of the symptoms. Virtually identical to the OP - I did post a full report but it was ages ago and I can't find it now.

It's the throttle body, a supposedly well known fault on the earlier 2.3 multi-jet Ducatos. Water drips onto the body from the badly fitted/designed scuttle causing corrosion in the electrical components - unfortunately even the Fiat diagnostics don't always get this right. It was pure experience on the part of my man that resolved it and afterwards it ran like a brand new vehicle.

Apparently it was a Fiat recall early in the vehicles life but not mandatory and, in our case anyway, not carried out. Of course it was well out of warranty so it cost me, but they did all the correct work including refitting and resealing the scuttle.

Interesting and thanks. My 2019 has just had a recall for some brake cable clip, when I rang the Fiat garage they told me that there was also another recall for the throttle body that I hadn't been notified about so it looks like the problems are still there to some extent.

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[Pausim]

Interesting and thanks. My 2019 has just had a recall for some brake cable clip, when I rang the Fiat garage they told me that there was also another recall for the throttle body that I hadn't been notified about so it looks like the problems are still there to some extent.

My 2019 had the brake pipe check in October but I was concerned to hear that there might be a throttle body issue as well. Spoke to Chelston (Fiat Professional) and they checked the Fiat online system and reassured me that it was not showing against my chassis number. It would seem this one is not as widespread as the brake clip problem. She did say that she knew about the throttle body issue in respect of earlier build dates.

 

[bigguspeckus]

Thanks bigguspeckus (you really must stop braggin about that ting mate) us blokes have fooled ourselves for years that size doesn't matter
Seriously any chance of posting a picture of your fabricated waterproof cover, whats it made of?
All remedies for problems are always welcome on here, even if some dont get it, others will, and be grateful for the help.
Cheers
LES

Hi Les. My Monika, has to to be said, is something of an embarrassment but in no way does it imply reference to "appendages".
A guy I worked with about 40 years ago started calling me Biggus,,, he was a fan of that Frankie Howard Roman comedy series and said that a name like Bigguspeckus would fit very nicely to one of the characters?
Anyway, the name stuck ???

Re a photie of the cyl head cover,,, the photo bit is easy and no problem ,,, loading it up on here,,, eeeerrrrrm, I'll havta research that...
Watch this space. ??

 

[TheBig1]

Hi Les. My Monika, has to to be said, is something of an embarrassment but in no way does it imply reference to "appendages".
A guy I worked with about 40 years ago started calling me Biggus,,, he was a fan of that Frankie Howard Roman comedy series and said that a name like Bigguspeckus would fit very nicely to one of the characters?
Anyway, the name stuck ???

Re a photie of the cyl head cover,,, the photo bit is easy and no problem ,,, loading it up on here,,, eeeerrrrrm, I'll havta research that...
Watch this space. ??

take photo on your phone, type a reply as usual and click on attach files, search for your photo and select it, click on FULL IMAGE and post. Simple as that, take longer typing how to do it than actually doing it

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[bigguspeckus]

take photo on your phone, type a reply as usual and click on attach files, search for your photo and select it, click on FULL IMAGE and post. Simple as that, take longer typing how to do it than actually doing it

Ok,,, ear we go Borr,,, flying solo ?

 

[bigguspeckus]

take photo on your phone, type a reply as usual and click on attach files, search for your photo and select it, click on FULL IMAGE and post. Simple as that, take longer typing how to do it than actually doing it

Well,,, waddaYaKnow,,, that wasn't too stressful woz'ut ??
I'll take a photie of the cover now.
In case you're interested,,, I took that sea view photo yesterday. Sitting in the Bar at "The Point" on the cliff at Sanluca de Barrameda and looking over to Chipiona (Atlantic Coast, Southern Spain).
The temperature (in the sun) was 28c!
Absolutely glorious!

 

[Northernraider]

Check the wires and connectors to the injectors as I had the common dodgy no1 connector fault in Spain...started with intermittent fault loss of power eml light flashing on now and then ...and progressed eventually to it failing completely.

Cut a connector of a scrap van lengthened the cables and solved the problem

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[bigguspeckus]

take photo on your phone, type a reply as usual and click on attach files, search for your photo and select it, click on FULL IMAGE and post. Simple as that, take longer typing how to do it than actually doing it

Ok,,, the first one shows the "diverter plate".
This is a piece of plastic chopping board, cut to size, to jam under the joiner section of the scuttle trough.
It does a really fine job of directing the spillage onto the cyl head cover.
Mind you,,, there isn't so much spillage now bcos I removed the scuttle and resealed it all.
Its such a useless design though that it'll always leak.

 

[bigguspeckus]

Ok,,, the first one shows the "diverter plate".
This is a piece of plastic chopping board, cut to size, to jam under the joiner section of the scuttle trough.
It does a really fine job of directing the spillage onto the cyl head cover.
Mind you,,, there isn't so much spillage now bcos I removed the scuttle and resealed it all.
Its such a useless design though that it'll always leak. View attachment 361025

Second one shows the cyl head cover, its a piece of plastic sheet and its literally tied in place with string.
Sounds a bodge job, I know, but it works a treat.
I also keep the injector cavities lubricated,,, yew deffo don want a rusty cavity Borr! ???

 

[TheBig1]

I did very similar on my last coachbuilt x250, but put a rubber car mat across the top, also covering the fuse box on the nearside wing. That is another major issue for water pouring over the scuttle. I also extended the drain tube from the scuttle to below the gearbox to prevent water ingress destroying that too

My tame mechanic laughed at my "Heath Robinson" bodges, but had to agree they worked well and saved a lot of money and time in repairs

When I first bought the van it had electrical gremlins after heavy rain. On removing the fuse and relay board from the box, it was part full of water. I cleaned that up and drilled a drain hole, then took the fuse board indoors to clean and dry it and gave it a good dose of ACF50 before reinstalling. This fixed all the minor issues

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