Little bit of help - please can you guys tell us what you typically do when rolling through France towards the South of France, Spain or Portugal ?

[Spriddler]

d). for me.

d) a mix of the above, it depends (for example) on how much of a hurry we are in, how attractive, interesting and English/Brit friendly the site we are passing is, or how good it’s restaurant looks (from the search result/website or phone call)

Caravanners must represent a substantial target market as they are more likely to be long stay and less labour intensive visitors than motorhomers who involve more booking admin, phone enquiries, unexpected arrivals, etc. Motorhomers are more likely to stay only a night or two whether by accident as it just happened to be conveniently on their rush South, or whether they are motorhomers just wandering around France with no particular destination.

Your description (non tourist area, huge industrial development) doesn't make the site sound attractive for people looking to stop somewhere for a week or more. If I'm staying on a site - which is only ever by reason of its convenient location to a specific event or attraction (two nights max), my priorities are for it to be near or in an attractive area or village and alongside a river, regardless of the facilities or pitch cost, in that order. I'm not interested in a bar, pool, restaurant, children's play area or the sanitary facilities.

 

[steve69]

"My French wife wants to run a mile, but, like I said, moth to a flame. I can’t resist a challenge."

PLEASE! Don't let your heart rule your head. This is a business decision.
If your wife doesn't want it, then move on. You must BOTH be in sync with decisions like this.

 

[maison]

It has a chateau, and a castle, huge pitches, 40 statics, tree house, safari tents, 20 acres of grounds and multiple gites made out of 14th century towers and 15th century bread ovens - just all needs a bit of TLC and some hard cash

That sounds like a site that we wouldn’t visit as we like a “quiet“ time in order to relax. Seems more suitable to tuggers and campers but I am sure that many people would disagree.

 

[chaser]

It has a chateau, and a castle, huge pitches, 40 statics, tree house, safari tents, 20 acres of grounds and multiple gites made out of 14th century towers and 15th century bread ovens - just all needs a bit of TLC and some hard cash.

I’m interested because it has already got all the things you mention, and crucially, already a 400k turnover large campsite. It is very hard to get permission for a new campsite now in France.

Very interestigly, the trend for older, less fashionable operations is to convert the land use, especially where there is development and houses are needed. In this respect, the site is well positioned for a potential conversion to constructible if the worst were to happen. It is a mitigation I have factored

Like I said, moth to a flame…..

Ok then so looks as if it's not the one I was looking at.

 

[Paul and Val]

A) for us every time. I would sell up if I had to stay on a site. Tried it once and absolutely hated it.

And just a thought among many, the location is everything. No matter how lovely if it is in the wrong area it would be very difficult. 1.7m sounds an awful lot but good luck with your dream.

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[dawsey]

"My French wife wants to run a mile, but, like I said, moth to a flame. I can’t resist a challenge."

PLEASE! Don't let your heart rule your head. This is a business decision.
If your wife doesn't want it, then move on. You must BOTH be in sync with decisions like this.

She is worried due to financial exposure, the need to commit to an 10yr plan and the work. She is 100% certain the site can make money increasing both value of Fonds (business) and especially the Murs (walls/land). There are other things not mentioned, which mean the site presents a real opportunity. She has a degree in international business and marketing and is nobody’s fool, she isn’t nervous about losing money, just the size of the challenge..

 

[dawsey]

Guys - please can you keep your comments to a b c d e, while I appreciate the concern that we may be some wet behind the ears numpties about to lose all our hard earned to some shyster Frenchie, that ain’t the case. My initial comments were in jest, I just need a bit of feedback on what you guys prefer from a possible market segment - you guys, ta

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

It has a chateau, and a castle, huge pitches, 40 statics, tree house, safari tents, 20 acres of grounds and multiple gites made out of 14th century towers and 15th century bread ovens - just all needs a bit of TLC and some hard cash.

I’m interested because it has already got all the things you mention, and crucially, already a 400k turnover large campsite. It is very hard to get permission for a new campsite now in France.

Very interestigly, the trend for older, less fashionable operations is to convert the land use, especially where there is development and houses are needed. In this respect, the site is well positioned for a potential conversion to constructible if the worst were to happen. It is a mitigation I have factored

Like I said, moth to a flame…..

Maybe you should have mentioned that in your introduction. On the face of it the site sounds to be very interesting. BUT, would only tempt us to stay a week max. Just to explore the site and area, more so if the chateaux was open to view etc. The purchase price still seems to be high( plus the costs of updating etc) ,even with the existing business and potential turnover.Does this come from French clients or overseas visitors? You need a reliable customer base ,not just relying on a few Brits dropping by.
It's still an A+B for us .

 

[dpsuk999]

We are also under the category of C (but A & B does count also)

Take a look at www.landyachting.de

These sites have been developed with the liner class of motorhomes in mind and are predominantly in Germany with a few dotted around the rest of Europe. We have visited a number of these including the one in Croatia www.sanservoloresort.com

I know from talking to others on a German forum that these sort of sites are missing in the likes of France/Spain etc so maybe target market for you if /when you get a site, just an idea of other markets/people to target

 

[dawsey]

Maybe you should have mentioned that in your introduction. On the face of it the site sounds to be very interesting. BUT, would only tempt us to stay a week max. Just to explore the site and area, more so if the chateaux was open to view etc. The purchase price still seems to be high( plus the costs of updating etc) ,even with the existing business and potential turnover.Does this come from French clients or overseas visitors? You need a reliable customer base ,not just relying on a few Brits dropping by.

Certainly agree with your first comment

thanks for the rest. Indeed, Brit motorhomes would be no more than 5% of the business

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[dawsey]

We are also under the category of C (but A & B does count also)

Take a look at www.landyachting.de

These sites have been developed with the liner class of motorhomes in mind and are predominantly in Germany with a few dotted around the rest of Europe. We have visited a number of these including the one in Croatia www.sanservoloresort.com

I know from talking to others on a German forum that these sort of sites are missing in the likes of France/Spain etc so maybe target market for you if /when you get a site, just an idea of other markets/people to target

Yes - one investment made by the current owners is to widen the chateau gates to get those monsters in. Also pitches are huge, a rare thing in an older French site.

 

[steve69]

There's a big part of me that would love to travel to your chosen site and help with the work - I'm not afraid of physical graft - for the price of a free pitch for the duration - or a reduced price at least. Maybe a few others on here would like to help too.

 

[pappajohn]

For the asking price ask yourself why it's run down.
Next to an industrial estate isn't going to help attract visitors.
A non tourist area.....and you think a campsite, no matter how good, is going to pull people off the motorway.
Not a lot going for it really.
Take your wife's lead.....run away fast.

 

[dawsey]

There's a big part of me that would love to travel to your chosen site and help with the work - I'm not afraid of physical graft - for the price of a free pitch for the duration - or a reduced price at least. Maybe a few others on here would like to help too.

What an absolutely fabulous idea. I will have a hard think about that.

To be honest, for both me and Bea the site is a bit of a no brainer, it has everything we wanted to find, but perhaps not in an ideal location, though it still seems to do very well on turnover. It is just the amount of money we would no doubt end up putting in in my relentless pursuit of perfection that worries both of us. As an engineer, for me, things have to the done right. We are under no illusions about the cost of that, or how long it would take.

 

[Fdhadi]

d). for me.


Caravanners must represent a substantial target market as they are more likely to be long stay and less labour intensive visitors than motorhomers who involve more booking admin, phone enquiries, unexpected arrivals, etc. Motorhomers are more likely to stay only a night or two whether by accident as it just happened to be conveniently on their rush South, or whether they are motorhomers just wandering around France with no particular destination.

Your description (non tourist area, huge industrial development) doesn't make the site sound attractive for people looking to stop somewhere for a week or more. If I'm staying on a site - which is only ever by reason of its convenient location to a specific event or attraction (two nights max), my priorities are for it to be near or in an attractive area or village and alongside a river, regardless of the facilities or pitch cost, in that order. I'm not interested in a bar, pool, restaurant, children's play area or the sanitary facilities.

My thoughts exactly

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[steve69]

Would you be prepared to give us a map reference so we can see for ourselves?

 

[dawsey]

My thoughts exactly

thanks guys. The industrial development on the edge of the nearest village (nearest ugly building is within 1km) does concern me a bit, but the site still seems to pull in huge visitors. Nothing can be seen or heard from the site except fields and rolling hills though.

 

[chaser]

What an absolutely fabulous idea. I will have a hard think about that.

To be honest, for both me and Bea the site is a bit of a no brainer, it has everything we wanted to find, but perhaps not in an ideal location, though it still seems to do very well on turnover. It is just the amount of money we would no doubt end up putting in in my relentless pursuit of perfection that worries both of us. As an engineer, for me, things have to the done right. We are under no illusions about the cost of that, or how long it would take.

It would appear that your mind is made up about what you are going to do so in answer to your original question it would seem you are not going to get much trade from motorhomers as most are answering a and b.
So it looks as if you should be aiming more at statics and yurt type things as the way forward.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Unlike many Funsters, we prefer C.

The main things for us are an easy walk to a town center with shops, and very importantly, the toilets mustn't be "a la Turk" type. We don't like coin-operated or token-operated showers, or having to keep pressing the push-button tap although that is just about tolerable. Some facilities blocks can be too open-air and windy.

There needs to be a drive-over grey water disposal point.

A pitch near a lake or riverbank is a bonus. So is a Bar at reception. We can do without a swimming pool.

We like pitches with dividing hedges for privacy, and to stop others using our pitch as a shortcut. A bit of shade too, if possible. Although trees need to be trimmed now and then to stop branches falling onto the MH roof, as has happened twice to us, thankfully without damage.

A visiting boulangerie van in the morning is a plus point. Or, ordering bread at reception the afternoon before.

I don't mind if the EHU is limited to 6 amps.

Thank you, This is the type of comment we are after

Well at least you have one potential customer.

 

[dawsey]

Would you be prepared to give us a map reference so we can see for ourselves?

Not yet, soon. The thinking has not yet concluded on going for it, I still see a lot of risk with getting into euro debt, which I really really didn’t want to do, another pandemic for one (unlikely but catastrophic), fx risk another (more likely, but smaller)

Apologies for the language, I spent many years analysing risk….

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[dawsey]

It would appear that your mind is made up about what you are going to do so in answer to your original question it would seem you are not going to get much trade from motorhomers as most are answering a and b.
So it looks as if you should be aiming more at statics and yurt type things as the way forward.

No, our minds are absolutely not made up, not yet, far from it. We don’t even know if we could borrow the cash, or even if we would want to. I just can’t help thinking about the challenge, which I love.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

There's a big part of me that would love to travel to your chosen site and help with the work - I'm not afraid of physical graft - for the price of a free pitch for the duration - or a reduced price at least. Maybe a few others on here would like to help too.

Yes,would certainly do that also for a few weeks.

 

[dawsey]

Maybe you should have mentioned that in your introduction. On the face of it the site sounds to be very interesting. BUT, would only tempt us to stay a week max. Just to explore the site and area, more so if the chateaux was open to view etc. The purchase price still seems to be high( plus the costs of updating etc) ,even with the existing business and potential turnover.Does this come from French clients or overseas visitors? You need a reliable customer base ,not just relying on a few Brits dropping by.
It's still an A+B for us .

Thanks Jimbo (?)

50% french, they love the statics, 50% Brits, Belgians, Dutch on the pitches, usually caravans and tents. 10pc motorhomes, of which 50% are Brits

Like I said, a handful of you guys, maybe even one of those involved in this thread will likely have stayed there, I’ve already provided enough info, just waiting for someone to tell you all where it is. I don’t want to do it at this point as I don’t need further convincing or scaring off, we are doing a bloody good job of both of those ourselves..

 

[suavecarve]

a) wildcamp, or stop at the huge network of free aires, then overnight and away. Why pay for overnights anywhere when you just don’t have to?

b) stop at one of the many paid aires, usually costing roughly €5-15 per night, more space and security, often better located, quieter etc. Possible to take the bikes and explore a little.

c) stop at campsites, enjoy the pool (if open), get the awning and tables out, relax a little explore the local town or village, try a local restaurant, maybe stay a couple of nights, ‘i.e. the travel is part of the holiday/fun’ - usually the cost is about €30-€40 or out of season €15-20 with the ACSI card.

d) a mix of the above, it depends (for example) on how much of a hurry we are in, how attractive, interesting and English/Brit friendly the site we are passing is, or how good it’s restaurant looks (from the search result/website or phone call)

e) none, don’t like france or don’t like too much time ‘on the road’, so we start early, use autoroutes, cough for the tolls and usually make it to spain in a day or so

A) We are in the Wildcamp and spend little money camp if en route to anywhere
B) We will pay money should the place interest us
C) Cant see us doing this unless the weather agrees
D) Possible to make exceptions to C and we would always investigate. Highly doubtful to use the restaurant (can think of only 2 occasions in the past 35 years)
E) Wouldnt dream of using tolls, love France, but I always like to get past La Loire on day 1

 

[The Coops]

For us a mixture of A and B and I think you may be competing with French Passion, your biggest obstacle will be getting the cliente(s)

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[chaser]

For us a mixture of A and B and I think you may be competing with French Passion, your biggest obstacle will be getting the cliente(s)

And campingcarpark. I have been set against these since they started but you only have to look at their website to see how quickly they are expanding and they are taking caravans and campers too on lots of their sites.

 

[dawsey]

Yes,would certainly do that also for a few weeks.

Does anyone know how to get terrible ugly render off beautiful 15th century sandstone stonework? Having said that, most seems to be falling off of its own accord, revealing the marvels (to me) beneath.

I spent a lot of time in a 14th century cumbrian peel tower growing up. I love the romance of really old buildings. The place has secret tunnels linking the old chapel and original castle, with bats hanging from every nook and cranny….

 

[dawsey]

And campingcarpark. I have been set against these since they started but you only have to look at their website to see how quickly they are expanding and they are taking caravans and campers too on lots of their sites.

Yeah. We are well aware. Usually boring and soulless sites though.

 

[dawsey]

For us a mixture of A and B and I think you may be competing with French Passion, your biggest obstacle will be getting the cliente(s)

Yeah - The French Passion thing. Great for some, novelty + a feeling of a need to buy for others. I’ve seen many who tried it once and wouldn’t do it again.

 

[dawsey]

If you could all remember to add a b c d e in your comment it would be helpful. It’s building an interesting picture for me. The French owners have tried, but perhaps not focussed too much on expanding the trade from passing southbound (and northbound) Brits, be they hipsters, families or adventurous retirees.

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