Legal advice needed on returning motorhome

[Nikki]

Hi, long story short, my friend purchased a second hand motorhome from a large trader, she took it away for a short break for 5 days as soon as she got it ( with a new habitation cert ) ,
Very unhappy, smell of gas, co detector readings high, cooker blew out when tried to light it etc
Came home rang company and said what had happened, said she wanted to return because she's well within the 30 days, and she's totally lost confidence in vehicle.
The company ummd and arred, but then after several phonecalls said they would come and pick it up for her ( as an engine light had come on too) and have a mechanic and an independent person look at it...
I asked her if they were giving her the money back and she said there was no mention of that
Now I'm concerned that they will then have here money and the van!?!
Can she demand her money under 2015 act before handing van over or do they have the right to access vehicle and decide what to do?
Apologies for spelling and grammar, bit worried for her as they are coming on Thursday
Many thanks
Nikki

 

[David and Sally]

Suggest a trip to Citizen's Advice.

 

[Hollyberry]

I’d say it’s not fit for purpose. Your friend needs to look up the appropriate piece of legislation online and put in writing why she’s returning it and which parts of the legislation she’s calling into play.
She should also state that she wants a refund. No threats at this point but if they start arguing then you threaten legal action.
Good luck to your friend.

Some info here. https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car

Motorhome specific https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/m...consumer-law-to-protect-motorhome-purchases-1

And looks as though it’s written by a legal bod https://www.clerksroom.com/downloads/697-Consumer-Rights-for-Motorhome-Owners-and-Rejecting.pdf

 

[Just smiffy]

From what I’ve seen, the troubles they have with it are not good enough reasons to return it... they will have to give the dealer time and opportunity to fix the problems..

 

[Chris-n-Leeka]

The Terms and Conditions will have been on the back of the invoice and will be at minimum Consumer Rights Act 2015. The dealer will sometimes add their own terms which may well benefit the consumer. It should also specify your right of return of the goods.

First thing to do is to find those T's & C's and read them throughly.

What I do know is that they can insist on being given the opportunity to put right any defects, but there is a balance of not fit for purpose in the first place etc etc.

Be nice, courteous and friendly. I want to find a resolution together etc etc

Which? have a legal helpline you can join for a fee. I've used it in the past and found it useful.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Southdowners]

Your friend will have to give the dealer the opportunity to put the faults right.

 

[irnbru]

If I was your friend I'd be researching and asking the Qs myself.

 

[Nikki]

Yes thanks to everyone, some good pointers there, and thanks to the consumer rights act and being within the 30 days, she doesn't have to let the trader put the defects right
And yes she is researching it herself as well, but I thought I would ask on here for advice, I'm sorry I thought that would be ok

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

It is OK to ask nikki, you will get different opinions though. I would expect that with a second hand van the dealer will want to put things right. It's part of the learning curve unfortunately and it happens with new vans.
Don't let it put your friend off motor homing, she will laugh about it, sometime in the future.
Best of luck.

 

[rosalan]

With all the faults rectified, would she want the van then? Presumably the dealers PDI inspection was not good. It was the van she wanted and in the dealers interest the van can only really be saleable with the faults fixed.
Inconclusive!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DavidG58]

If your friend was given a copy of the habitation paperwork hang on to that

it should all be fixable, but i would think it is literally a criminal offence to fail to carry out properly the tests they should have done

not implying this, just asking if this is a first Motorhome could any of it be pilot error/ poor hand over ?

hope it all works out

 

[Scotch mist]

IMO it’s minor problems, & most likely easily fixed , get them to fix it and enjoy

 

[Campervan_man]

From what I have seen if You buy using FINANCE rather than private funds you will get your money back far more easily. Technically YOU don't own the van until it's paid for, the finance company do.
Dealer's are not all bad. Yes, they make mistakes but they do strive to get things right most of the time.

 

[jdk62]

You have to let the dealer correct the faults, however, they only get once chance under the Consumer Act, if they fail to rectify, then you can reject. However, I am not sure how the Act applies to “used” items (ie secondhand)

 

[HandyAndy]

You can't just throw a wobbler and get your money back, you have to give them the oportunity to fix the vehicle and if they do there is not a lot else you can do other than sell it on.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Southdowners]

Yes thanks to everyone, some good pointers there, and thanks to the consumer rights act and being within the 30 days, she doesn't have to let the trader put the defects right
And yes she is researching it herself as well, but I thought I would ask on here for advice, I'm sorry I thought that would be ok

That’s incorrect. She will have to allow the dealer to rectify the fault.

 

[peterc10]

My strong advice to her is to get some advice from a solicitor. Yes it will cost some money but it will be a lot cheaper than making the wrong decision at this stage.

 

[Scotch mist]

The co2 readings could be high simply because windows were not open when cooking , you would smell gas if the cooker blew out when trying to light it ,
probably a small fault in oven , could be as simple as a partially blocked jet or a faulty regulator, If everybody tried to reject MH’S due to very minor faults the industry would be in chaos , I am speaking as a heating engineer & someone who has rejected a motorhome

 

[eddie]

How does a cooker blow out?

May have a stronger case if it all worried her so much she curtailed her five day holiday, instead of taking it, then saying she’d lost faith as there was a smell of gas when the cooker “blew out”

But, certainly on secondhand vans, minor faults that develop after delivery would normally not be reason for litigation

 

[Nikki]

*9. If you complain within 30 days, you have an automatic right to reject the motorhome and treat
the contract as being at an end. This means the trader must give you a full refund if that is what
you want. If you want the trader to repair the damage or replace the motorhome entirely, you
can ask them to do so and the 30-day period stops running while they undertake the repairs or
organise the replacement (if they are unable to fix the fault therefore, you are still entitled to the full refund)*

Above is point 9 of the consumer act
She is within the 30 days and has been advised that she doesn't have to let them repair the van
There were other faults as well, one being a leak in the bathroom, so it has made her think that the habitation cert is worth anything

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Nikki]

She did curtail her break
When trying to light oven it kept blowing big flames out and singed her fringe

 

[eddie]

*9. If you complain within 30 days, you have an automatic right to reject the motorhome and treat
the contract as being at an end. This means the trader must give you a full refund if that is what
you want. If you want the trader to repair the damage or replace the motorhome entirely, you
can ask them to do so and the 30-day period stops running while they undertake the repairs or
organise the replacement (if they are unable to fix the fault therefore, you are still entitled to the full refund)*

Above is point 9 of the consumer act
She is within the 30 days and has been advised that she doesn't have to let them repair the van
There were other faults as well, one being a leak in the bathroom, so it has made her think that the habitation cert is worth anything

All of which is correct and applies to new motorhomes. It changes with secondhand motorhomes, and no one has all the information needed to advise from what you’ve said

One thing is 100% certain, it would be cheaper for your ‘Friend’ to let the dealer fix the niggles than pay a Solicitor

She must of liked it a few days ago, as she bought it

 

[Basildog]

Your friend will have to give the dealer the opportunity to put the faults right.

Not if within 30 days you can reject without allowing the dealers to carry out any repairs .

 

[peterc10]

Sorry, but I think that some of the information you are getting here is wrong. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 is the key legislation here.

As long as you are within the first 30 days of taking ownership you have the absolute right to reject the goods if they are of unsatisfactory quality, or are not fit for purpose or are not as described. You do not have to allow the supplier to put things right, although you may do so if you wish.

BUT, terms like unsatisfactory quality and unfit for purpose need some interpretation, based upon the facts of each case, and that is especially so when dealing with second hand goods. That is why I recommended that you get some legal advice in my previous post.

If you are outside the 30-day right to reject, you have to give the supplier one opportunity to repair or replace any goods which are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described. You can state your preference, but the supplier can normally choose whichever would be cheapest or easier for it to do. If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you can then claim a refund or a price reduction if you wish to keep the product.

You're entitled to a full or partial refund instead of a repair or replacement if any of the following are true:

• the cost of the repair or replacement is disproportionate to the value of the goods or digital content
• a repair or replacement is impossible
• a repair or replacement would cause you significant inconvenience
• the repair would take an unreasonably long amount of time.

If a repair or replacement is not possible, or the attempt at repair fails, or the first replacement also turns out to be defective, you have a further right to receive a refund of up to 100% of the price you paid, or to reject the goods for a full refund. If you don't want a refund and still want your product repaired or replaced, you have the right to request that the supplier makes further attempts at a repair or replacement.

In addition If you discover the fault within the first six months of having the product, it is presumed to have been there since the time you took ownership of it - unless the supplier can prove otherwise. During this time, it's up to the supplier to prove that the fault wasn't there when you bought it - it's not up to you to prove that it was.

If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund, or price reduction if you wish to keep the product. The supplier can't make any deductions from your refund in the first six months following an unsuccessful attempt at repair or replacement. The only exception to this rule is motor vehicles, where the supplier may make a reasonable reduction for the use you've already had of the vehicle after the first 30 days. This would apply to a motorhome

 

[pagey]

She did curtail her break
When trying to light oven it kept blowing big flames out and singed her fringe

Had to read that bit twice when she speaks to the dealer please tell us the outcome as the dealer may just give you a full refund which would be the right thing to do as clearly the habitation check was fake good luck

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Wino]

Is it me or does this sound a bit like someone who has had some problems but also decided that motorhomes aren't really for them?

 

[jezport]

Minor issues could have happened after the hand over. Did the cooker blow out because the gas bottle was low? I can understand your friends disappointment but to lose faith after one trip does seem that they are a little over sensitive.

 

[Dibspl]

Take proper legal advice is the best way, citizens advice is a good first point of call.
If it were that simple to buy a Moho and then return it, unscrupulous people could get one, use it for a free, three week holiday, give it back with a list of complaints, valid or not and get their money back - there is bound to be some legislation within the act to protect the dealer too so make sure to get good, sound advice on your rights.

 

[Nixdorfer]

TBH when we picked ours up it started leaking in on the way back. Having never spent that much on something our knee jerk reaction was to reject it as we worried it was going to be a big issue and uncover other things. Turns out it was only some split sealant and fairly common.

As we wanted to reject the MH we sought legal advice as have an FSB free hotline. The solicitor I spoke to said we had the right to reject and didn't have to give them the option of repairing. It was all pretty stressful at the time. We put it in an email but then decided to offer a compromise that as long as it was repaired properly and a hab damp check was carried out we would consider keeping it. Which they did.

At the end of the day the issues are minor and easily fixed. If she was happy with it when purchased she just needs to accept a used vehicle isn't going to be prefect all the time(neither is a new one) and if the dealer fixes everything and gives it another gas check she should be fine.

Once she gets over the initial disappointment that things didn't go smoothly she should start to love it again

Most importantly she needs to join MHfun and get involved. ? Best money she'll of spent

 

[Ade S]

Good luck with Trading Standards they cannot be contacted directly only through Citizens Advice. I bought a Motorhome 18 months ago it was rotten along the floor on both sides but only obvious to a knowledgeable specialist, this was my first Motorhome. I gave the trader chance to repair a number of faults but after I had an independent survey which revealed sub standard repair and unsafe to sleep in due to unknown sports within the walls.
I rejected the vehicle vis a solicitor as trader would not respond to me. Eventually the trader took the vehicle back and I lost £6000 on the deal harsh bitter pill. The vehicle was back on Autotrader the next day for more than I had originally paid. Citizens Advice didn’t want to know can’t get to Trading Standards so I’ve lost a lot of money and any confidence in the Trading Standards “service ”
On the up side I found a brilliant trader and now have a fabulous Motorhome

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}